praha

My concern is that I think we've seen the kind of player he is. I don't think he gets better than this. He's the kind of guy that will only improve as the team improves. We need actual drivers and influencers. He is not one of those. I like the bloke but I've thought since 2012 that it's time to test his value and go in a different direction. We drafted him with the idea of Bailey's run-and-gun style and he would have been perfect for that but defensively and one-on-one he just doesn't suit the mould. Since Neeld and now Roos, he has been exploited as the player he is: an outside runner that has no place in a defensive grind, especially one trying to find its feet.

I was flying back from Germany during the game but watched the game without knowing the scores, jetlagged and angry. To be honest by the time I finished the game I felt better: I needed the laugh.

They apologise every week. Don't you read the weekly articles on melbournefc.com.au. "We didn't come to play" "We're embarrassed" "We didn't want to win" "We didn't play it out" I'm just waiting for the headline that reads: "I don't know why I'm getting paid to be honest"

I wonder if Geelong would accept: Watts + a pick in the 20-30 range FOR Allen Christensen I think it would be win-win. Geelong get another pick to help replace forthcoming retirees, getting Watts who certainly needs a change and has potential. We get Christensen who is a proven ball winner. Seriously, I think the time to trade him is now. Otherwise we're just going to end up with another Sylvia on our hands.

Just on SEN I heard something about the PP. I caught the back-end of the report so I didn't hear who made the statement, but what I did hear was, "...said it will be unlikely that Melbourne will be granted a priority pick." It was a serious report, not some [censored] journalist making the statement, so I can only assume it was an AFL official. I think the club is obliged to ask for one, but considering the number of top 10 picks we have, the compensation we're going to get for Frawley, not to mention the cap space we have, I don't think the AFL will give us one. EDIT: Wow, F-L-O-G is censored?

To be honest, the team doesn't even need to tank to finish last. If it finishes last, gets a priority pick plus Frawley compo, it could have picks 1 2 and 3. I doubt priority selection will be top 10, though, maybe top 15.

Not surprising. Melbourne is very much in a situation Sydney was in when he arrived. Sydney is constantly in a struggle in they absolutely need to remain competitive at all times to stay viable as a business. Melbourne is well beyond the point of needing to start winning games and relying on the draft simply won't help when the team lacks actual winners among its ranks. I would compromise for a trade for GWS talent, though. But we need genuine, pure talent, no gambles like Toumpas, and try to build this club up as quickly as possible. Unfortunately it's reached a point now where if the club can't win more than 6 games next season, it's going to very quick dive back into the red as sponsors and members jump off. We keep hearing that this change won't happen over night, but I feel the club no longer has a choice: it needs to get talent in as quickly as possible. Talent that has been in the AFL system and has had to work through it. Even getting fringe GWS players would be good because they're blokes that have worked to get into the team but can't. Tyson is an example.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Very naive. How can you not see a connection between how a club that was finals bound hit the bottom of the barrel so quickly? It's not like we were a bad team pre-186: we were thrashing teams by 100 points! We were well on the way. It's clear that there were issues there, and many of the experienced players from that day are now in the team's leadership group. If the current leadership group isn't empowering and leading those around them, what hope do the likes of Tyson, Viney, Hogan, anyone else that needs some guidance, have in evolving into winners? Look at what has happened to Jones: I love the bloke but he is a loser. He walks off the field looking down at the ground. He doesn't know how to win. He doesn't know what it takes to be a leader in a winning team. That is the club's problem: there are still too many experienced losers within the playing group. They all need to go. The hard decisions have been made sparingly. Another rebuild must start now. How telling is it that Daniel Cross, who has been at the club for two seconds, is more of an on-field leader than others that have been there 5, 6, 7, 8 years? How can someone come straight into the club and automatically gain that role? It's quite astonishing, and difficult to believe, I admit, but the most experienced players that have been at the club long-term are undoubtedly part of the problem. It's time to move on.

It's not [censored]. They look to be literally handballing off responsibility to someone else. They are losers.

Why is Nathan Jones untouchable? He has been underwhelming as captain. Unfortunately, the fat needs to be cut away. Anyone that has been part of and led this team to its losing culture over the past 8 years must be moved on. He's been at the forefront of it. He's the best player in a crap team and he's still very average. Tyson is already ten times the player Jones is. I don't disregard the guy's effort, but he has zero clue how to win a game of football, or how to empower his teammates. He leads his team off with his head down. How many times have we seen this image? If rumours about the coaching group being underwhelmed with him as captain are true, he should be no safer than any other player that has arrived at the club between 2006-2012. It's that playing group that has produced the current quality we see now. They should all be moved on. I'm sick of sticking up for these dropkicks. It's the same damn players, every year!

Seems like Roos can see exactly what Neeld saw and was ultimately belittled and sacked for. This playing group is filled with average footballers that simply don't have what it takes to play at the level. The leaders and skilled players don't have the mental capacity to rise above. The first ones to go should not be the likes of McKenzie and Tapscott. It should be Frawley, Watts, Garland. We might get worse but wow, we're already at rock bottom WITH them. The team and club is filled with cancers. Get rid of them. Bonafide losers. I don't give a [censored] how many possessions or hardball gets you win: if you're on the leadership group and things don't change, you're just not very good at your job. Having experienced losers on the leadership squad must make it hard for the likes of Tyson, Salem and Toumpas to feel empowered to contribute. No wonder Toumpas is out of his element: he's playing with a bunch of experienced dropkicks! Neeld was sacked for saying exactly what Roos has been saying all year: the team is filled with players that don't give a [censored], are sub-AFL standard, and/or play well below what is expected and required of them. The sad thing is that, rather than Melbourne sack him after 2-3 years, he's leaving on his own accord after 3. I didn't think it could get worse after last year. It will. Frawley is gone. Watts, Garland are trade bait. Dawes is the most overpriced player in the game. More than Scully. Our leading forward hasn't played an AFL game yet. Our best midfielders have a combined 50 games between them. Our backline is led by Grimes, who can't hit a target, McDonald, who's erratic at best, and Garland who plays in second gear. Our runners are made up of Watts, who plays in second gear, and Kent, who's been a surprise packet. Blease is another high draft pick down the drain. There are so many holes, and there will only be more when the cancers are kicked out. I'd offer Nate Jones to the highest bidder.

I agree to an extent. Anyone playing that day particularly anyone on the leadership group should go. Watch Frawley from 4:53. He is in the damn leadership group. He's in second gear! Watch him make a non-spoil attempt on the shot at goal. Watch at 5:19 - Frawley kicks to McDonald, who has an open player timidly calling for the ball. He COMPLETELY ignores him, goes back to Frawley, the ball is fumbled, and watch Frawley just do...nothing. We always focus on the likes of Tapscott, McKenzie, Evans. These guys don't let us down: we know what we're getting with them. The blokes that "bleed red and blue" are bonafide LOSERS. And that includes Nate Jones. They must all go. Build around Tyson, Salem, Toumpas, Hogan, Viney.

Good point. It's the top 6. Your top players absolutely must walk into ANY top 8 side. Most of our top players would struggle to get into a bottom 4 side. Role players are important but they need leaders and winners aroundthem.

Why? He has trade value. Him being a good player in a bad team hasn't turned out well. The guy is a bonafide loser and an unwhelmingnleader. Getting 30 possies is easy when you're not damaging nor empowering for your teammates. He goes through the motions.

What this club needs to do is something many fans are unwilling to admit: completely change over the list and get rid of anyone from the Daniher, Bailey and Neeld years. Yes, that includes Jones, Watts, Frawley, Garland etc. These guys are good players, sometimes average players, in a diabolically bad team. I am unconvinced Jones would walk into a top 8 side. I have been underwhelmed by him as captain. We need to build around Tyson, Viney, Salem, Toumpas, Hogan, and get in experience from finals sides that can replace the likes of Watts and Jones. ATM, we seem to forget that the team's leaders have some of the worst win:loss records of ALL TIME, and expecting them to have the urgency to will the team to win is pointless. Frawley was terrible. Watts doesn't care. Dunn has given up. Jones win the hardball but what's the point if, as a leader, you're not empowering others to do the same? The club has made a lot of list changes over the years, but it hasn't made the tough ones. During the Bailey years it replaced experienced winners with finals experience with young kids that would eventually go on to become, for lack of better word: losers. Jones, Frawley, Dunn have failed the club in leading the newcomers to victories. They shouldn't be moved on over the next 1-3 pre-seasons. And those saying Roos has an influence: of course he does in performances like this. But thisbteam was losing like this BEFORE the truth was being told. During the Bailey years, the playing group hated how the CEO treated them. Then Neeld was too harsh. Now Roos says the playing group needs to grow up and get over the past, and it's his fault? Give me a break! The losers in the playing group need to be moved on. If that means another spoon next year, then so be it: we're no better witj them.

The lottery would only be for the bottom 10 sides. The top 8 get picks would then get picks 11 through 18, with 8th getting 11, 1st getting 18. In the NBA only non-playoff teams are entered into the lottery.

JKH seems cooked imo. Not uncommon for first-year players to hit a wall. He played quite a bit early in the year. Probably needs to grow the tank a bit. Playing someone that is not fully fit is a pathway to injuries.

He appeared to have challenged Neeld and the coach reacted the way he did. Beamer was hurting in 2012: he could see where the club was going. Turns out he was right. Are we better off without him? He'd still be in the side.

Jetta has been a prodigy this year.

Disagree. Jones has been going through the motions most games ( and still been good, don't get me wrong ). Tyson has been sighted more often throughout the year imo.

I thought the same thing. I thought, "Surely he's sticking up for him as a Pies premiership player?" It was a dead awful kick.

Dawes... Oh dear.

You know, they're doing okay. *runs and hides*

Did Dawes get a possession?