praha

I read that as "walkwithNeeld"...

Bruce was a solid player in a good team. He buckled and turned to mash when we played poorly. Really, he was just another one of our "good but not great" players that are severely overrated by some on this forum.

No, I read it. You make it clear that his comments might not help with their confidence. But what he said is still a tough reality: it's gotten to a point now where you can't just sit back and say, "Oh they're low on confidence, I better not let them know that their job is on the line." The club has made such a hard effort to instil coaching and administrative stability, get a good coach, provide good off-field facilities. Stability is key to an efficient work force but at the same time when you're handed everything you can't just expect to keep trotting along and that people won't notice or hold you to account for it. They've been given the keys to the front door, but they keep trying to break through the window. When you do that you're probably going to cut yourself on the glass. Dunn has been playing since, what, 2006? Why is he playing the way he's playing? We all know he's better than that. Why is Jones playing his worst football for 5-6 years? Why does Vince go missing in ways never seen while he was in Adelaide? Mind boggling stuff.

Boo hoo. As if the coach even needs to say that if they don't perform they'll lose their job. It's very simple: play your role, and the rest will follow. Too many don't and they'll be gone. Tough cookies.

I found Hocko! I Googled "Darren 'Hocko' Hocking" and came across this article: http://newsmediaiframe.westcoastsentinel.com.au/iframepages/iframeArticle.aspx?id=2603780 Googled Hocko's Mechanical and found this image: https://www.google.com.au/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x2ab6a27bec94a1a3:0x40e613dc47889602!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttps://plus.google.com/104613257735164278000/photos?hl%3Den%26socfid%3Dweb:lu:kp:placepageimage%26socpid%3D1!5sHocko%E2%80%99s+Mechanical+-+Google+Search&sa=X&ei=neZsVYvsCNP28QWtlYGoAw&ved=0CGQQoiowCw That's him. Looks like he lives in SA now. Okay I'll stop being a stalker now.

He sits in the AFL Members. I remember the guy with the light-blue hoody. I have the "Demon Attack" season review video from 1994 and he's always in the replays. He was cheersquad leader until 2000 I think, or thereabouts. Then when our cheersquad moved to behind the goals he had a small group in the Olympic Stand for a few games, then they disappeared.

We still have a massive gap between our youngest and most experienced. Hogan Salem Watts Toumpas Viney Trengove Brayshaw Tyson Stretch Kent Frost Newton JKH McDonald Pettracca Jetta Spencer They are all under 25 and have all played under 100 games, yet all them bar Newton and Stretch are walk-ups and would all be in the 22 if they were fit. That's 17 of 22 players on game day. The problem is that the experience group, the ones that should be leading us to "turn the corner", continually fail when we come up against better opposition. Dunn Lumumba Vince N Jones As soon as they are taken out of the game, we completely break down. You can't expect Brayshaw to win us games of football, or Garlett or Hogan to kick 10. Yeah we've turned over 50% of the list but the main culprits of our biggest downturns are still hanging on. Trying hard, going through the motions and getting B&F votes don't matter anymore. We need more from blokes with 100+ games of experience. Roos doesn't need to tell Jones or Vince how to play football. Why is Jones getting smashed by kids with 40 games experience? Why is Vince? It's not a coaching issue. The same problems exist and have since Geelong 186 and it's very clear now that this isn't a coaching issue. It just can't be. I seriously think that what we saw on the weekend at at times this year will remain so long as we have players from the Daniher and Bailey years still on the list. That is a very harsh reality that some here need to realise. I'm downgrading my expectations for the year now. I had 8-10 wins in mind but we'll struggle to win 6, which would still be a pass, but not ideal. The Saints have a gun midfield with some true young talent in there that rips up the opposition. Can we beat them? Can we beat Brisbane? Carlton might be the only sure bet.

I'm sure that after he's done from Melbourne, Roos will need a good 2-3 years of sitting on the ground, legs crossed, rocking back and forth, trying to forget the preceding years.

Going to be very tough to get within 5-6 goals. The Pies run very hard and when they get on a roll and with the crowd behind them, this could turn into a real annihilation. We just don't have the answers for teams in the 1-5 bracket. It's no secret that the gap between the top, middle and bottom teams is as big as it's ever been. We'll be lucky to be within 5 goals, no matter who we bring in.

Where'd you grab that stat from?

How is he "celebrating" the empowerment?

Pies work way too hard and run far too hard to get into space for us to play too many talls. Leave Spencer there, he's rucking quite well.

Collingwood went on an amazing run. 9 straight goals i think? Down 38 and then never looked like losing, even when North hit the front again. What I noticed about Collingwood and even North at times is just an undeniable endeavour, true team play. Melbourne imo has far from the worst list in the league -- I'd put as above the Blues, Lions, Saints, Bulldogs (yes), Suns -- yet as Roos points out, once players loose that mental toughness in a game it's all about, "Well, we're going to lose, I'm going to play for myself now". No team capitulates quite like we do. Outscore 100 to 20 in 2 quarters of football, most of it coming in 1 quarter. That is something we should have left behind in 2013. Evidently, it's still present and has been present in two games this year. The Hawthorn game doesn't count because if we let them get on a role of dominance the same way GWS and Port did then we'd have lost by 200 points. Both GWS and Port started the game in 1st gear then went to 5th gear while Melbourne stays stuck in Neutral. Do you notice that we're not even that bad when we do actually get the ball in those patches? We just CAN'T. GET. THE. BALL. They chase and ball watch. They literally lose the intent to win the ball: can't hold tackles, can't string together possessions, can't get into space. We saw how hard they ran against Richmond and the Bulldogs. Our problem is right in the middle of the ground: unless the midfield plays 100% of the game at 100%, then the team completely breaks down. Our best is still good, but our bad is completely and utterly inept. When are we going to turn a corner?

My thoughts on this whole trivial BS issue. The whole booing scenario from last week, imo let the fans boo. Goodes should have risen above and not said anything. Do what you do, and do it ON THE FIELD. I hated hearing the media saying it was, "against the spirit of the game". These people aren't invested in the sport and teams like fans are. It [censored] me off. I'll boo Goodes if I want. That said, it's fair game. The dance, it was a, "STUFF YOU!" and I loved it. THAT'S the spirit of the game. This is a competition. It's survival of the fittest. Power to him. It doesn't help that he's a hypocrite, that he points out elements of racism and argues that he doesn't deserve the treatment only to then taunt fans with a cultural dance. But irrespective of that, booing and taunting are fair game. The fans will boo. The players will respond. Irrespective of how it's done, the dance was just his way of fighting back. It kind of devalues his moral highground, and he should have just done that and nothing else. Would this be an issue had he stayed silent all week and then did the dance? Probably, but not as much of an issue. It would have just been him making a stand for himself. I don't think he has grounds to complain about booing anymore. The fans threw a spear, and he threw one back. You can't winge about it anymore. And to be honest, I think that's better for the game. Stand up for yourself. Don't cry about it. I just find it all so trivial that a mad who is so vocal about the "white man", the oppression his people are under, has managed to rise above and make it in a "white man's world", where he takes advantage of capitalism, earns very good coin, and has the platform to spread his opinions. Michael Long is a far better ambassador and spokesperson for Indigenous people. I feel that Goodes has a massive chip on his shoulder, and he's far more divisive than anything, especially when he says one thing and does another. The platform is there for young Indigenous people to make a stand and make something of themselves. He is living proof of that. He should be doing everything in his power to form reconciliation, rather than coming out and attacking the very world that has given him the platform in the first place.

What makes you think Selwood and Judd are introverts? Because they don't engage the media? That doesn't make them introverts. They're both very vocal and highly critical of their teammates. They hold their teammates to very high standards. Haven't you heard the stories about Selwood? Jones is undoubtedly an introvert but really that sums up this club. The likes of Brayshaw and Hogan will lead this club to a flag. Jones is just a filler. Love the bloke but his being captain just further exemplifies our issues atm.

Our best is okay, sometimes good, far from great. Still, it puts us into a position to win games though because our defense is strong enough and if the midfield works hard enough the opposition is pushed into a corner. Our worst is absolutely deplorable, still at 2012-2013 levels. I don't think our midfield is as bad as the statistics show. Numbers don't lie but they tell us one of two things. Either: 1. Our midfield is just awful and not very good. or 2. Our midfield doesn't work hard enough. I think it's more the latter. Vince, Jones, Cross, Viney, Tyson are all very competent midfielders, and there are worse midfields in the competition. Yeah we're missing Tyson and have missed Viney but it's not like performances from yesterday don't happen when they're in the team... It's certainly a psychological thing. I just can't believe how much we get smashed by when the opposition gets on a run. GWS, Port, they both had runs reminiscent of Geelong's runs in 2011, just periods of complete and utter dominance where we can't even get our hands on the football. It looks like a Div1 amateur team playing the worst team in Div3. What can Roos possibly do to address that? The Bulldogs somehow managed to stop both GWS' and Sydney's midfield, not to mention Adelaide's, yet we completely out tackle and outran them last week. The game was won in the middle. Is the Bulldogs midfield packed with stars? They smashed GWS yesterday. But yet we keep saying we're "one A-grade midfielder away from competing". Not having that a-grader shouldn't stop teams from competing, nor from actually getting the football. There is no reason why we should get smashed the way we do. Had we lost yesterday to Port in a close contest that would be a different story but being outscored like 110 to 20 in 2.5 quarters of football is something that should have been left behind 2 years ago. And having the likes of Jones and Bail in the team doesn't help but that's hardly why we play the way we do. It starts and ends in the middle and it's like dominoes, we completely break down across the field whenever the opponent's midfield gets on top.

Actually, a couple of years ago it was 70 points

Good leadership empowers those around them to get the best out of themselves. I'm inclined to agree. I love Jonesy but simply going through the motions isn't acceptable anymore. I expected him to go to another level this year but he's been very poor in all of our losses. Evidently when other players play poorly we crucify them but if our captain and "natural born leader" does it's okay. Granted he gives it his all but he needs to rise above and go to another level. He's been around for long enough now. I think Jones' performances in our losses this year exemplify our main problem: we have poor leadership in key areas of the ground, which lead to us as a team struggling to impose ourselves on the scoreboard. We can't win games with our midfield being crucified the way it is in our losses. We don't just get beaten, we get absolutely annihilated in very short bursts. Against GWS and now against Port, they score 10-11 goals in a very short amount of time, almost as quickly as Geelong did in 2011. Had they started the match like that we'd be losing games by 100+. That is endeavour, effort, maybe it's psychological, but we have a completely competent midfield, and I refuse to accept that it's as bad as the statistics show. I just think that Roos' "we don't play as a team" comments are particularly focused on the middle of the ground, where our mids aren't working together to keep control of the game and get it forward. Our transition falls off as soon as a team gets on a run and suddenly all of our mids are running slowly and can't play anymore. Why the drop-off? Jones isn't why we're losing games. But he's part of the reason why we're not winning, if that makes sense. He needs to go to another level to what we've seen in other years, because when he's winning B&Fs we're only winning 3-4 games a year. This year he's dropped off considerably and it's no surprise that when he does we get absolutely smashed in short bursts. He is our leader and arguably one of if not our best player and we can't afford him to go quiet. We can't expect him to lead us to a win every week, but every time we put in performances like we did last night, it starts and ends in the middle. And that's his domain. Him, Vince, Cross, H, they all have an obligation. Jones certainly isn't alone but he's also not immune from criticism. We need to turn a corner and so does he. Winning B&Fs in a craptastic team isn't going to win us games. He needs to go to another level. We need to demand that of him now. Because he and those around him have been going through the motions. Going through the motions for him is working very hard and being exceptional, sure, but there has to be another level. Otherwise we'll remain in neutral.

Sandilands vs adelaide

How long do we wait for this team to turn a corner?

Meanwhile, Footscray is beating GWS by 6 goals.

Turned it off.

I'm 100% certain it'll start with, "Yeah, look.."

Melbourne Football Club.

Jones has struggled with the tag this year.