Nasher

Your interpretation of my post was... Interesting. Not very close to the mark at all, but interesting all the same.

Surely this isn't a possibility outside the realm of the crackpot. We'll probably take Whitfield if he's still available too.

Indeed - it's burned in to my brain now that Wines is ours if he's still there at 4. The only question now is if he'll still be there or not.

No, even on the anonymity of a forum, some posters are more credible than others. Of course nobody will score a 10 out of 10 on believability; every single thing you read on here is second hand (since nobody from the club posts on here in an official capacity except for Cam Schwab occasionally), so even the highly credible posters will get bum information sometimes, or misinterpret what they've heard etc. It doesn't mean that you can't get a feeling for things that at least have some basis for fact and who usually posts good information.

Not so good that I don't need to resort to the search engine sometimes. I can't be bothered on this occasion, so you and your conscience are on your own. Edit: I recall you might've been one of those convinced that we'd landed Judd, but given the volume of information that was around then it's hard to tell whether that's a real memory or a false one I've created just now because you prompted me.

A maximum of 2 floggings would be a good result for mine.

Stu, it's thing again about learning which posters you can believe when they give pieces of information. Footynut is another that I'd back. Of course it's silly to believe everyone and everything, but I reckon you're around enough to build a good enough picture. I also think there's a difference between rumour and speculation. Making up information and spreading it around the information is a rumour. Taking snippets of factual information (or even mixing facts in with some rumours) to try and built a picture when the picture isn't complete is speculation. Anyone who knowingly spreads a false rumour is a flog. Anyone who believes every rumour they hear on the internet is gullible. But people who try to draw conclusions based on the morsels of information we get on the internet are what makes sites like this interesting. If there was no room for speculation on the forum, which you seem to be rallying against, we may as well shut this site down at this time of year.

No it couldn't be said of every player on the list, but it could be said for Jamar because he has played at that level before, and it was only a few seasons ago. I just find it amazing that you're prepared to write him off after one interrupted reason.

The then brand new coach thought he could play a role, turns out he couldn't. And it was a higher pick than that, 39 from memory. We obviously made the wrong decision, but I hardly think it was a very costly one. For Bate it probably was, but to be honest that doesn't bother me that much.

Rob, let's not forget that as it is the club is already up to its eyeballs in youth, and I believe Neeld has said he's happy with the talent pool in our existing young players. Couple this with the fact that we've already netted two absolute top shelf kids in Viney and Hogan, I think if Pick 4 was the only live pick we had in the draft, we've still done more than a bit for the future.

I doubt the club shares your view of these trades being bonuses. Their mission has been to improve the list with the right role players and I think that despite the wonderful effort to date, they'll be disappointed if they can't finish the job.

There is no possible way Bate won't be delisted. None.

No, not really. His value may be more to us than it would be to other clubs, or it could be that there are varying opinions of his ability. It's not as black and white as saying he spent the year in the VFL therefore he's not worth anything. I'm not saying I would or wouldn't pay a second round pick, just saying you need to look at the entire picture.

I'm amused by the logic that we should limit ourselves to pick 45+ because you don't know who he is.

Why is it a foregone conclusion that Jamar's best is behind him? He's not yet 30, I see no reason it all that he can't return to his AA form if he's able to get some momentum up again.

The groupthink has convinced me that I want Wines (with no exposure to the juniors I have nothing else). If the reports of GWS' intentions are correct, this question will be a moot point though. And you guys who think we've done a deal with GWS let Toumpas slide need to lay down the crack pipe. There's a much more simple explanation for what is going on which rpfc has spelled out for you.

By the time this trade/FA/draft period ends, excluding any rookies we add and obviously Hogan, every single player we will add will add to the side immediately, including Viney and most likely whoever we take with #4. Neeld has said to anyone who will listen that his FD collectively believe that we've got the talented youth to get where we need to be, and we're desperately short of quality mature players to help keep us competitive in the mean time. It isn't very hard to put these two pieces of information together to establish the obvious strategy for this off-season and why it's been a success for us. I guess it's just easier for guys like Cam Mooney to resort to the "common wisdom" of draft picks = better team and not bothering to look any deeper than that. Edit: The other thing is that even though we haven't added much youth this year, of the four we have added two are known to be absolutely top shelf and while we don't know the ID of Pick #4 yet, the chances of not unearthing at least a very good player are slim. In short, we've added class, experience and leadership. I can't believe that anyone could not view this as a success.

Interesting that the North boys in that thread want Gysberts in return.

He's different to Gysberts because he can and does run. Furthermore (going by my distant memory of the handful of games he played in 2011) he runs to the right spots to win the ball in space. I also remember him being quick, but a poor user of the ball. There are tools there to work with and it sounds as if his attitude is good, so hopefully his body can hold up enough for him to show us what he's got.

Exactly. He's a big midfielder (that is poor by midfielder standards) who is an average ruck and can't mark. He's Paul Johnson with a big IQ.

Out: MFC experience In: Successful club experience. That sounds like an influx of experience to me.

What would they do with him? They'd be in exactly the same bind as we are with him; their first ruck is better than Martin and he makes a lousy forward.

Hangon, Who could it be? How do I tie "Rassilon" in to this joke? Gone. Again.

Because they lost two players.

if it was considered that Byrnes and Moloney cancelled out then it's a near certainty that if we'd have just received another pick like the one we'd got, and furthermore we'd have risked not actually landing Byrnes. Your reasoning that we'd have gotten two higher picks instead of one crap one doesn't make any senseat all.