Dappa Dan

You can't rate a coach highly until he has a winning record/wins finals/wins flags. He gets marks for being very good with teaching kids, but then so do a lot of assistant coaches. He's coached a couple of clever games, but has coached a lot of not-so-clever games. He's teaching the players to play like Geelong's best football, but that might turn out to be a method a few years behind. In other words emulating other teams isn't as good as innovating. Malthouse, Lyon, Eade, Craig, Clarkson and Worsfold all miles ahead. Craig and Eade have been successful over a number of years without the big one, but deserve a LOT of credit. Ratten's made the finals a couple of times, so is marginally ahead. Scott (roos) and Hardwick are on the same level with Dean. They've done admirably with not much. Neither have won spoons. Harvey likewise has had a fair while, and the payoff has arrived. Harvey's only coached 8 more games than Dean, and has made the finals now. I couldn't put him ahead of Dean, as he has had a better list all along. So they're level too. Longmire, McKenna, Primus, Scott (cats), Hird - not relevant as none have coached a full season yet. Voss is the only one I can safely say is behind Bailey, as he's managed to decimate what was an ok list to begin with. And even he's made the finals. I'm not saying Bailey is 15th, or 16th. But at the moment saying he's better than all but 3 is a bit rich. He hasn't earned that respect yet. He may well, but certainly not yet.

That may be one of the most misguided posts I've seen. Are we to believe that because someone in Scully's family bought a place, and that they didn't even buy it just for Tom, that he'll be committed to the demons for more than 12 months? That purchase means absolutely nothing to Tom's future.

No kidding? You learn something new every day at demonland.

I thought you'd say that. I only mentioned him because of the size/weight thing... He's one of the better examples of a kid being too big that have popped up in recent memory. And yes, that's about where the comparisons end... Though I'm interested. How would you compare him to Panos? I saw the thread when I got on today, and it occurred to me, why is everyone even talking about this? He's super-unlikely to be available, and there's such a slim chance he'll end up at the dees. And I've done no homework on others who are available. Why even worry about it? I'd be pumped if we got him, or any other tall in the first dozen.

This is the judgement that worked similarly for Temel. Did everything he would have needed to do on field, and his attitude (along with his type/speed etc) saw him overlooked completely. And in that example is where I have some concerns. His behaviour, like you say, is either good or bad. If it's just hi-jinks, he won't be overlooked. My issues with him come with what you see on the field. I was massively impressed with Watts as a KP player, and basically just as a player. What I loved was that he was a rake. You couldn't say he was doing what he was doing just because he was overdeveloped. He did it on skill and smarts, along with the athleticism and height he has for all to see... Fast forward a couple of years to Darling. The guy obviously has different strengths. I have absolutely no doubt he'll be an AFL player based on what exhibitions I've seen. He's one of those cases where a youtube clip IS enough to see he has what it takes. My worry though is that he's pretty big already. There are kids that are big at school, get older, and develop more instead of hitting a plateau at 18. Hurley is a good example. But it's certainly a factor when you look at him that part of the reason he goes as hard at it as he does might be the fact he's a solid unit. When he's surrounded by men will he fade into the background? If he DOES fall back to the pack, as so often happens with young players (for more reasons than just size), will he put his head down, bum up, and WORK to regain that dominance he enjoyed as a Junior? Put simply, I was like many, impressed with what I saw... but like always, not sure if what I saw would translate to the AFL all that well. Like you say it comes down, simply, to how good he is, and how well the FD predicts his career trajectory.

I read that today too... and was a bit shocked. I knew the individual cases of the players, like Polo who snaffled a Rising Star nod in a 4-goal BOG performance in his first game, and did literally nothing since then. But I didn't know they all came from what should have been a watershed recruiting year. That's scary stuff.

While I wasn't one who voted for him, I think you'll find that there are some very real and significant rumblings about this kid. Certain important types have said some particularly unusually impressive things about him. Those two people might just be related to or know people who have some experience with the inner workings of the club. They might turn out to be geniuses. Or genii. We'll find out soon I guess.

I've always wondered about that. Neitz wasn't that huge. Lloyd who's the best of the last 15 years or so was 191. I think mostly people want Nick Riewoldt. And even he is only 193. Jack is 195.

How depressing is that for him. The most interesting thing he ever did was give us Scully, who barracked for the Tiges. (note that had we won the game we'd have ended up 15th for the year, and gotten pick 2 instead of pick 1 and 2)

Murphy's a great player, but Daisy had the better year, no doubt about it.

Got it in one. I love that the club has now changed gear to really be in phase 2 of it's recruitment, and push for a flag. There comes a time when you've drafted nothing but quality, and suddenly when you lose players, you're losing guys you would prefer to keep in some way, shape or form. In years gone by Wheatley, Whelan, Robbo... a lot of these guys had maybe one year left but were gone soon anyway, so no-one really cared... And those delistings certainly were never really going to come back to bite us. Now we have only really 3 names that we can seriously talk about delisting, in Maric, PJ, McNamara. Past that there's a few in the gun for next year in Newton, Martin... To go with players like Bell, McDonald and Miller. It says so much about the quality of our list that there was talk of 2 of our delisting/retirements finding new clubs. Demonland should be rejoicing. Well maybe not rejoicing, but certainly should be pleased.

After the resignation of Wellman, this is HUGE news. Viney is up there with the highest regarded people in footy departments, and has been for a while. I remember the Hawks thought he was massive for them when he was there. Now if we can just get a backline coach with some runs on the board we'll be sitting veeeery pretty.

Hang on... Ok... So they traded the pick that would have been the one AFTER their first round pick this year to the Suns. So next year if the suns come last on the ladder, and end up with the #1 pick, they'll end up with pick #2 as well if they choose to use it? And in exchange the Cats get pick #15 this year. In al likelihood next year, they'll end up with pick #10-15 as their first round, and could use the pick then and end up with pick #11-16? That seems like a bad trade to me. What's more if they waited a couple more years, they might indeed miss the finals at some point, and had they stuck with the compo, they'd have ended up with a two-for-one early pick? My head hurts. Thanks for the help TJ. I think what I was missing was the info on what compo picks the cats had.

I might be misreading this... But according to afl.com Geelong traded the "mid first round" compensatory pick (pick #10 if used this year) to the Gold Coast for their pick #15... From what I can see it wasn't attached to any other trade... So what the hell's going on? From what little I can see they, for no reason, changed pick 10 to pick 15... Obviously I've missed something. Can someone please clarify?

Missed this bit. On demoland, it's absolutely right. In the real world, it ONLY depends on the footy department's view of the players mentioned. I would suggest that it's a pretty good chance they're frustrated with PJ, and wanted Hale (or potentially wanted Hale to play as a stay at home FF). I would say it's not the Hale trade that signalled trouble for PJ, more the rule change... But even with all these comings and goings, we've been told over and over by the club (and Mark Jamar in interviews) that they like PJ, and have persisted with him because they see worth in him. As far as I'm concerned, that's all we need to know... What I don't get is how know-it-all posters (some mods) make blanket assumptions that a player is cactus, and was never any good, DESPITE the club's forthright and transparent insistence that he's a required player. Fair enough if he gets a few years, plays a bit of good footy, then rules and competition for spots conspire to squeeze him out... it happens to every list, and to the vast majority of players. But that's like saying, for example, Daniel Bell was never up to it... The kid played some really good footy until Bennie Johnson ended his career. Of COURSE with hindsight it was a bad option to keep him on, but what sort of club would we be if we just let him go? You have to give anyone on your list with ability every chance of being a success. For the player, the club's dignity, and bottom line for MFC's success in the long run. Why posters have this infantile and arrogant need to be the first to call a career over I'll never understand. Why they're mods confuses me even more. Bu I digress.

I would agree, but then there'll be plenty of time to talk about Grimes, Frawley, Watts, Trengove, Scully etc etc... and surely you would know as well as any demonlander that you're least important 6 or so have an important role to play. It can't all be left up to your best 6. Jamar certainly didn't. Was probably the biggest spud on the list in the past 10 years there for a while given the time invested and his return up until 2 years ago. Certainly was the most disappointing player for mine of those years in which he was playing badly... and look what happened there? I reckon he's changed the landscape of demonland more than any player in its short history, and he'll be used as the "reason" why spuds are supported... Easy tiger. We all have our own opinions. I'll say you're wrong, and disagree wholeheartedly, and I'll be proven right some of the time... but that doesn't make you an idiot. I'd expect the same courtesy.

I was under the impression that we were cleaning out all our rookies to replace them with kids, but I heard this a while ago and I could have heard wrong.

Good/great trade demons. Unless something drastic happened to Cheney's ability/pace in 2011, and unless we had about 4 guys go down with season ending knees, Cheney was going to be list clogger this coming season with only limited opportunity to improve in seasons to come. Given his VFL form and his high regard in the club, a trade makes perfect sense. It's not glamorous or big news, but this is where the recruiters and list managers make their money. In the ones no-one sees coming. Win/win/win for Demons, Hawks and Cheney.

I think rpfc(I think) might have been right in the end... had we gotten Hale Johnson might have been in the gun. As it is, I'd say McNamara and Maric and Johnson are 50/50. (Are any of them contracted?)

We'd ask for Beams, they'd offer Davis.

I'm excited about seeing Blease, but not because of that video. He'll do some good things, but in order for that kind of footy to be premiership quality, it has to happen most of the year, not just in spurts. Think Daisy Thomas with less height/marking, and more pace. I picked Tapscott, because from all reports they love him at Casey and he's got the body to cause blunt-fore trauma immediately. Not sure his career will have the legs of a Scully/Trengove just yet, but I'd love to see him link up with those guys and start to own a few games. Get settled. Show us what we'll be watching for the next 5-10 years. The long-termer, I put Fitzpatrick. I thought nothing of him at first, but I keep hearing these startlingly impressive things about him. I haven't got him figured at all, but people are getting kind of ridiculously excited about him. Piques my interest... Oh, and he should be coming into his own just as Hale retires.

I've spoken to a handful of mates, one who actually works for the Roos (but somehow follows us, go figure), and they reckon Hale's a really good player at FF, but as a ruckman, they'd prefer someone with more pace. Very old-fashined, crash-and-bash (Jamar style) but not much tank/speed. Almost all made the assumption that he's been recruited to play just as a KP forward, which was weird, given that so many are calling it a trade for a ruckman. I'm liking it more as I go. Anything to stave off the Jack Anthony talk.

Pretty much sums it up. Both guys deserve praise, and some chagrin. Both guys would stroll comfortably onto any list in the AFL. It's all about asking price for me. If the GC suddenly got high and offered us something around pick 7 or 9 for either player, I think everyone here would be overjoyed. It's not that we SHOULDN'T trade them. Every player in the AFL has a price. It's a question of what for. Also, if Hale comes to the dees (why wouldn't he, sensational opportunity for him), then that puts added pressure on these guys, along with Watts and Jurrah somewhat, as I reckon he'll play more as a stay-at-home forward than anything.

It's now sounding like it's Fait Accompli that he's coming to us for our second pick... #32. Are we paying overs?

If he cracks 180, that's all I'm worried about.