Dappa Dan

Meh. I always had a lot of confidence in Frawley, even when everyone else had concerns about his kicking (like a backman needs to kick that well). Picking him as a future All Australian (which Y_M did with most young players), isn't all that impressive. Picking the year is. You're right about Grimes, and he'd have been my next one, but I reckon that wouldn't be all that newsworthy. Everyone knows how good he is now.

Howcome you edited that 45HG? Did I get something wrong there? Newton in '08, Jurrah in '10? You know what the hardest thing about taking that mark was for Jurrah? The media attention after, and particularly the interview up on the podium. Did anyone see his face when they announced it? I reckon he went whiter than Kyle Cheney. It's so interesting that a moment like THAT is when you see the whites of his eyes... but sailing for a mark over the head of a 195cm, blonde, pretty-boy, #1 draft pick, standing bolt upright, then taking it clean as a whistle and hurtling head first towards the deck? What does he do then? Just casually stretches out the cramp in his calf. I reckon when most mortals take a grab like that (everyone has one or two in them) what they fear is the impact of their hands, face, behind, whatever on the turf. When Jurrah goes up for his next one of these, I reckon if he drops it it'll be because he's seeing the microphone and TV cameras that he'll inevitably have to stand in front of.

No... I'm 90% sure it's gonna be for another A.A. Gurnsey. I'll give you a hint. His initials are T.S.

Like the Rising Star, this whole award thing is a little bit of fluff I reckon... The namings are of more use to fans challenging each other than they are to the clubs or players. I love it and everything, but I realise the relative silliness of it all. That said... we all remember how hard it was for JMac to get his gurnsey in 2006, and he didn't even make the side. So the fact we had a guy in the 18 (who deserved it) and a guy on the bench (who also more than deserved it) as well as a guy who would have been in the emergencies... That speaks volumes for our improvement. I love that one of them isn't even a "mature" player yet. I'd be interested to see who everyone's emergencies are. For mine: Green, Hayes and Pavlich easily ahead of the others.

Yeah, we can say all we like that he got beaten by one game... but it was a game that Green didn't have. Green's best all year was 5 goals. LeCras more than doubled that... and while we can say it shouldn't come down to that one game, you do still have to give LeCras his dues. Put it this way... if it was Green with the 12 goal game, you'd be pretty damn disappointed if he didn't get named. I reckon he was mostly just unlucky that he wasn't played in the forward-line for as many minutes as LeCras. Personally I reckon the selectors get very carried away with players who top the Coleman race in crap sides... what they ignore is the fact that guys like LeCras and Riewoldt, and Fevola before them, kick as many goals as they do partly because they have no-one interfering with their space in the forward line. They still have to get the job done, and kick the goals... and I don't mean to suggest they're not deserving... but still, I think people should recognise sometimes that kicking 80 goals from 200 deliveries (40%) in a wooden spoon side is easier than kicking 40 from 80 (50%). We're going to see a lot of this in the coming years when Watts, Jurrah and Dunn/Bate all kick 40, and we have an awesome forward line... but none get near an AA gurnsey.

Who? Y_M's predictions were the equivalent of a person trying to throw a pebble into a distant bucket by taking a handful and throwing them all at once. One is bound to go in. Start your threads boys. Only I hope there isn't 20 threads on separate players for next year.

2 Marks of the year in the last three for MFC!!!!!!

What gets me about the Green thing is he was our best player this year. Frawley was amazing, and Jamar was easily the second-best ruckman this year... But Green was our B&F, and it was well deserved. As Jaded said, it's hard to get a forward-line spot. You can't ignore a simple stat... Goals kicked. It would have been a gutsy decision to pick him based on his other stats. And while Johnson may have been deserving, Didak certainly wasn't. And I'll eat my hat if either had better ears than Green did. In a worse side to boot.

Yeah. It's all in fun... If he starts a thread on someone for AA next year and they make it (in a break-out year) then I'd be congratulating him...

No Green? Oh my gaaaawd. The only excuse for that is that you can't give 3 spots to a team that only just got out of the bottom 4. Other than that, it's shameful.

Yeah, yeah. Show us ya thread. :D

WOO HOO!! ... ... ... E25... You shaddup.

He was very good 2006-2008, and elite 2009 onwards. Before 2006 (He was drafted 2001) he was just another plodder. This shows us that A-up until the age of 21/22 (Jones is 22) he was nothing like as good as Jones is... admittedly in a different role. Around the same age, Swan was made to look pedestrian by a slew of opponents. This isn't news. And Harvey is a dead-set superstar even at his age. I actually think Jones' engine can improve. I'd like to see him keep running LITERALLY all day... in the way that Scully/Judd/Swan do. James McDonald wrote a good piece in today's paper about it (in a bigger article on Swan) where he suggests that Swan has some trigger in his mind where when he stops running, something clicks, and he has to take off again. Not everyone can be as explosive as Robert Harvey where they're keeled over on their quads barely holding themselves up for about 20 seconds, then they tear off at full pace. I have this awful feeling that the Swan comparison will rear its ugly head with every fringe player around the age of 22 in the coming years. I have no problem with rpfc's feeling that he has hit his ceiling. That implies that he's predicting he won't improve enough to warrant a spot in the 22. I don't agree with him, but we're talking just predictions here, which are as wishy-washy as anything on demonland. Personally I think he's more than earned the right to prove he can find that extra gear and add the strengths you're speaking of above. The question is, at what club, and how long he'll be given to prove it before something drastic has to be done. Exactly. Swan could easily be the most improved player after the age of 21/22 we'll see in years. Just because Swan did it, doesn't mean Jones will do it... we all realise that... but you have to give him a chance, don't you?

As a player... of course. He might even have EVERYONE covered this year if the Brownlow odds are anything to go by. But people must be seeing things if they think his pure kicking skill is all that much more amazing than Nathan's. Both are up-and-unders with no booming Sylvia-like distance. I reckon as far as the mechanics go, the end result is pretty similar for both guys. What makes Dane the better player is the sheer amount of touches he gets, and how well he knows his kick. This kind of footy brain may never evolve to that degree with Jones, but I still think there's room for improvement there. As for pace, you may well be right. But then while Jones isn't blisteringly quick, he's not Woewodin-like.

I only meant that Swan was (a few years ago) another slowish, not-so-skilled HB/midfielder. As suggested above his career took off seemingly out of nowhere, after he was just another player for a long time. And yes, of course his stats real well... he's become that kind of player... but many of the issues you point out with Jones (while not identical) are of a similar ilk. I just reckon if he can get his engine to keep him going a bit longer he'd be better than just a handy player. I don't mean to suggest that suddenly he'll find another gear in pace, or another 10 metres in his kick. To me it seems like endurance, and decision making are at least areas that footballers can improve in. I am serious about the comparison of Swan's first few seasons to Jones'. In fact, he only had 6X20+ possession games in his first half-a-dozen seasons with the Pies... And in those first 6 seasons played FAR less games and showed a lot less too. Now I'm not saying that just because Swan did it, Jones will. Swan is a HUGE exception to the rule. Nor am I saying that Jones will do exactly what Swan did. Jones is a midfielder and will never be a flexible player around the ground. Of course you're right, going by what usually happens, Jones is in that no-man's-land at the moment, and his chances of becoming dominant are dwindling. But I don't think it's outside the realms of possibility that he could improve further than you see him improving.... And like you say, give him a couple more seasons and I think his market value will be FAR more impressive. His style of football just gets easier when you're 24+ and older/bigger than all the kids you're playing against, rather than the other way round, which is what he's done so far. Yes. I think what I meant was the weight of importance when you look at the slow/tough/heavy bodied types, vs the skinny, pacey outsiders. They don't get much more in-and-under than Jones... but he doesn't have that extra string to his bow. But yes, in a perfect world, you get both... Like with Scully. But obviously top-3 draft picks are required there. Usually.

I don't mean to be casting aspersions here, but Jones on the SCG would be a very good fit. Especially with Kirk, and soon Bolton retiring. A trade to Sydney could bite us on the bum pretty bad.

I was thinking about that. I reckon though if you scratch the surface you'll find that it's not that simple. I would absolutely assume the club WANTS to keep him and he WANTS to stay. It's the details that make things muddy. And I don't feel the need in any way shape or form to be bitter about a player pursuing opportunities at a club that needs a plug-and-play midfielder, where he'll likely get more money, more matches and thus match payments. It has nothing to do with his qualities as a player, but the situation the list is in, and I wouldn't be bitter at all... I'd be wishing him luck and cheering him on... (except against us obviously) Yup. Likewise. As usual, I could go over every second line you wrote and delve into it a bit more... but our mods have been gently persuading me to cut down. Suffice to say I reckon your rating of footy-brain vs toughness is different from mine. However I have a sneaking suspicion that as the rules change even further, toughness will become less and less important. Unless it's a wet day. If Peake can have the season he's had, it doesn't bode well for good old fashioned in and unders. Ok. So to go with the diagnoses of more "glass-half-full" supporters above... what would you say is the difference between Swan and Jones that made Dane kick on and Jones plateau? I would have thought pace and skill are the same. Not many have Swan's footy brain, but Jones is no slouch when it comes to vision. Execution is his problem, but then Swan's kick is pretty ugly too. Is it engine? Your new-fangled "cruising speed?" If, as I suspect, the biggest bridge between Jones and being a solid B grader with the occasional A-grade game is endurance (among other things), then are we really deluded when we say he might do a Moloney and discover a professionalism in the second half of his career? Maybe become a pacier, tougher Swan? It's probably a very low-percentage thing, I know... and I don't think your answer really changes anything particularly... but it's interesting to see what people are leaning towards with predictions.

Yup. Pick 12 + 32 in exchange for 15 + 26. They get an extra earlier pick, we get two inside 26? It's minor, but it could happen particularly there's a Bennell (Jamie not Harley) that they don't think will last to pick 32.

Out: Miller's WAG In: Scully's WAG

Oh they know.... booooy do they know. The disagreements I have with them generally involve revenge that includes 2000+ words in response! Honestly though, it's the majority of people here that think they know more than they do. The ones who ACTUALLY do know tend to stop posting as they know it's a fruitless battle of opinions, that descends... in some cases even with mods who think they know everything (and yet get it wrong about the same as everyone else)... into insults. I'll name one that was a disgrace and has since been moved on... Y_M. That guy, funny as he could be, was a plague. Best thing the mods have ever done, getting rid of him (assuming he's not still lurking under a different I.D.). I haven't had a close look at his posts, but I would say the thing to remember here is that there's certainly grounds for people to discuss Jones' trading. Firstly the media is talking about it, which means it would be ridiculous to suggest that we don't. Secondly the guy has been up until the last couple of years a possession-winning midfielder, who has since been thrust into a tagging role. I think if he rates himself as highly as you and I do, he'd be well within his rights to ask for a trade to a club where he can do a Luke Ball and get some more opportunities. Bottom line... someone saying the kid has no improvement left in him, or little improvement, is probably playing the percentages, as he's not the perfect modern day footballer and has physically developed already. But if you handled EVERY player on the list this way, you'd have a pretty inexperienced list. I reckon Jones WANTS to stay at the club, just not in his current role. I reckon the club WANTS him to stay, but to improve in the areas they need him to improve in, which maybe they feel he won't do. There are times a fresh start may bring about a second-wind in a kid's career, and I can't help but feel that will be the case with Nath. Or maybe the THREAT of leaving his first club will be enough to make him redouble his efforts. In any case, I reckon you and I agree that it's certainly possible he has improvement in him, but that maybe a trade wouldn't be the worst thing? In terms of 2010 alone, I will get off the fence and say this. If he does go and is replaced by a kid, it'll take up until about round 6 for people to scream that they want him back as our kids get pummelled again. Then if we do make finals, we will start with Gys, Scully and Trengove in the middle... all of whom are 19 and will get rag-dolled... and the Jones-lovers will cry foul again. In a perfect world I'd say let him have the next couple of seasons to find that extra gear, while giving us that hard-bodied stuff in the middle, at which time his market value would likely be higher... THEN move him on. After a kind of indifferent season this year, we might be getting unders for him. Especially in a compromised draft.

Yawn. Repeating the same statement over and over doesn't make it any more interesting. PJ stays for a year or two more I reckon. The Spence and Gawn aren't ready yet. PJ 'aint much at this stage, but he's better than those two for MFC's next 22 games. I'd take that. But where does he play? Defender? Defender/backup ruckman? (ooooh I like that)... Don't think it'll happen though. Jackson has a greater market value than the other two combined.

Me too. Unfortunately some of the manic-depressives who populate these threads, sadly, make some good points. There have been players we didn't want to see go, who have proven that it's better to do SOMETHING with the data you have, than nothing at all. i.e. For every Woey to Collingwood for Daniel Bell (pick 14), there's a couple of other good ones like Trav for Grimes, Brock for Gysberts (which was a choice made for us). They can't ALL succeed, but at least the footy department is actually putting their balls on the line. That's what I reckon it comes down to... trusting that the footy department know what they're doing (if they DO in fact trade Nath). And hey, the data is that it worked pretty damn well for Hawthorn (Rawlings and Hay for high picks, and neither player did squat). The trick here on demonland, is to not suddenly have the delusion that most here are lumped with... in that they believe they are, in fact, running the footy department. The cranky old farts over at 'ology (or at least one of them), love to stick it to us here for being positive about MFC, and for actually supporting players who are on our list. The last laugh is with people like you though. You ARE a supporter, and are acting accordingly. If only some of the know-it-alls would follow suit. PS... your comparison of Swan to Jones is a huge call. Just sayin' :D

Yeah. Even better do a joeboy style "in three words" format. It'd be easy enough too, just search members total posts, in descending order. Actually, you know what? Save it for December when this place gets reeeeeally quiet.

Surely there's no way Bruce would qualify for that. Bock's 26/27 (I think), previous All Australian. Bruce is 30. I'd be thrilled with a pick after the second round. Love the guy, but market value is market value. Bruce hasn't got 100 games left in him. And just on Jones and Warnock. Are people aware that after Garland, Rivers and the big Chip, Warnock is our next best KP defender? At the start of the year he was probably only behind Chip. And that's assuming all three play as KP defenders. Frawley at times has played like a rebounding small, as has Garland. I believe we might have even gone into a few games with all four? If one of those big three gets hurt, which they are an absolute certainty to, even if only for short term time-frames, Warnock steps straight in. He's NOT trade bait... Unless he believes he's not getting the opportunities he should be, which I don't believe he is. Bottom line. The club would not be shopping him round. At all. It's one thing to say we'd accept, say, pick 25 for him (every player in the league has a price), but it's another to go ahead and put him up for trade on the slim pretence that Carlton are weak for KP defenders and his brother is there. The same goes for Jones... though his case for asking for a trade (or us shopping him round) is slightly stronger. The likelihood is he would be unhappy as a tagger, so there's nothing wrong with a good player wanting to further himself, partcularly if we're compensated. We've benefitted from this in the past.

Am I just imagining things or did Jamar win it years ago?