jabberwocky

This is a cynical view but an impending trade period might be the reason.

Our midfield in not currently capable of carrying out a decent game plan. We are unable to sustain decent pressure with attack, not smart enough and have no confidence. We also have a lack of forward targets. But just because we are not capable of carrying out this game plan doesn't mean he should change it. That would would be conceding. Ie we aren't good enough to work to plan A so we will work to plan B. What you want your players to do is IMPROVE enough to follow the game plan not compromise it down to your players' ability level. Just because we aren't capable of executing the game plan atm doesn't mean we never will. DB knows what he is doing.

Fair bit of division over Sylvia. I watched him pretty carefully today and I think he is two players, the one who works hard at the contest when he had a chance for glory and the one who looked very lazy or tired when there was little chance of him gaining the glory. There were numerous times when he could ahave got himself involved in contests only to amble toward the play ambitly. There is something NQR about Sylvia whether it be injury, small motor or something going on mentally. I know he kicked three goals but his clanger and lack of pressure just about equalised things IMO.

Thats OK but what do you tell the rest of the side. Would he be earning more than PJ who has paid his dues and outputs more than Warnock at this point?

The issue is that when players improve and time comes to renegotiate, they deserve a payrise. There are upsides and downsides to having a young list. In a few years time we will have a lot of players playing at thier peak and we will need room in the salary cap to accomodate for thier improvement. Of course this would be a good problem to have. I also believe that with the culture that DB is developing we wont want to be paying players more than thier worth. This could have a detrimental affect on morale.

Are you saying that you have had first hand experience with him or is this an observation from afar?

Really? That wouldn't be a criticism I would make. In what way?

My concern with Dunn is that despite his size he looks all at sea in marking situations IMO. Particularly overhead contested situations which would naturally preclude him from keing a KPP. Has anyone ever seen him take an overhead contested mark? I would be interested in others observations as I don't get to all the games.

I too think that the move is fair enough. I do think it will have an impact on our ability to force contests in the close in situations. I look at our on ball brigade and with Moloney, Mclean, Jones out we look pretty weak around the contest. Valenti will spend some time in there which will give us a bit of grunt and it will be a real chance for him to shine. But the result is less important than developing the list. Lets hope Nate's disposal picks up and he comes back and kills them. Lets see who can step up.

Agree with you on all points. My initial response to the thread was a tongue in cheek line meant to affirm this. Of course no-one should insult or abuse our players regardless of thier credentials.

I am 36. I have 2 sons who are footy mad, 7 and 8 who choose to support the Dees in order to continue their current accommodation arrangements. Both tell me that they will play for Melbourne.

In that case you are in agreement with me and Bobby for that matter as if you read the original post the gratuitous stuff was what he is referring to. So tell me why you are calling people names again. Slandering and criticising are different by the way. If you are going to spend the night correcting posters' spelling you have a seriously long night ahead of you.

Sanctimonious twits, useless, etc, etc. The usual stuff. Maybe they are just not good enough to play AFL. They still don't deserve a lot of the personal abuse that gets dished out here regardless of what they get paid. Col Garlands brother popped up on this site a while back. He had read a lot of the garbage that was writtten about his young brother. It made me cringe. Perhaps those that sling mud should use thier intellect to present thier observations and criticisms instead of resorting to the usual name calling etc.

Player criticism and observations of weaknesses as a football spectator is fair enough. Its part of what these forums are about. If you are going to call someone useless etc etc then it would be assumed that you have the credentials to make that claim. There are criticisms and then there are childish insults that are often hurled around.

like Don is good.

Yeah agreed. Any person player bashing should state the amount of AFL games they have played in thier post. Seriously, of course no-one should insult or abuse our players in a personal manner, regardless of thier credentials.

I know I am gonna get bagged for this. Miller, if he can maintain consistent form till seasons end.

I reckon Davey is it. He is the most damaging and has more potential to improve. He is the one player at Melbourne who can swing a game.

Fair enough. He has done some good tagging jobs.

I'm glad I could bring you blokes together.

H your idea for building the team is to demand excellence and discard those who dont perform to the highest level. I respect it and agree with this in principle but it doesn't take into account the differing rates of improvement that young players have. To trade away players that have just begun to develop and improve for a second or third round draft pick is not a good move. Trades should come from players who have stalled in thier development, have an attitude problem or unnaceptable work rate or from the types of players which we have an oversupply. Admittedly CJ was a player whose development stopped but if he continues and builds on his recent form he is a type of player that we need. I hate to see players shirk but there are plent of egs of AFL players who have changed this part of thier game with physical and mental maturity. PJ has also improved and possesses some rare physical attribrutes for a big man that suggest he can improve further. I would like to see him hold his marks. If he continues his steady rate of improvement next year he may go from being handy to being dangerous IMO. I would like to see how far these two players can improve. Players who have stalled are Sylvia, Dunn, Bartram, Carroll. If it looks like Warnock is coming on board then you would suggest Jamar would be offered. Players with a questionable attitude/workrate ie Davey, Newton, Sylvia. People will disgaree with me on Davey. He needs to work harder. I suspect that he fears his hamstrings will go twang if he works too hard. My point is trade the blokes on the downward slope or plateau. Not the blokes on the uphill climb because you don't know what heights they will reach.

Easy with the name calling bud. The point of my post was in defence of CJ and the reasons why I believe we need to hold on to him at this point. Like you I didn't feel the need to explain the difference between finals pressure and playing for your spot in my original post but you questioned whether I knew the difference . CJ hasnt played finals so if you want an indication of how he performs under pressure have a look at what he has done. 1. He has been dropped and was playing for his future. He was excellent when he went back to Sandy, lifted his head and lifted his game. He has had to fight hard to get into the senior side and has recently performed very well. 2. He also has the ability to hit targets in a footy game. These indicate that CJ may be a player that peforms best when under pressure rather than the opposite. This is an indicator only. We won't know how he will perform in finals until we play a few. Read the post again properly. Take your time and tell me the bit about where I get confused about the different types of pressure. Don't be a sniper who waits for other people to put down intelligent posts with reasonable arguments, then pick out a point and try and discredit it. Present an argument or a explanation and we will debate it.

What is it that you explained? I rechecked the thread but could find no explanation.

Thanks for that but at no time did I say that it was the same. They are different. However a player can be under no greater pressure than to play for his afl future. Perhaps pressure was just what CJ needed. For a while he has been a young player developing not yet faced with delisting. This year it came to the point that he needed to perform to stay on the list. You can't make a judgement about how a player will perform under pressure in finals until he has played them. However you may be able to gauge how he might perform on how he has handled pressure and responded in the past. I am not saying he has made it as a player. He has taken some big steps recently and has been our most consistent recent performer. If he continues this he should be retained. As stated previously by others in this thread we have a current shortage of players who can consistently hit targets (another indicator of ability to handle pressure).

I'l donate 2 cows, a camel and my mother in law.