jabberwocky

If we get a top 10 pick for Rivers I would trade him. We will not get a top 10 pick for Rivers. We would not get anything in the first 20. I dont think I overate Rivers. He has his deficiencies. He is not a champion or a star. he is a solid and clever defender. we have no others of his ilk. You need to have a measured approach to rebuiling not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

"Very good chance that next year or the year after he will be our most experienced defenders. You cannot trade away all of your experience regardless of whether they are likely to play in a GF or not." Thanks hannabal, the sentence preceding the one that you chose to quote puts the sentence in context. He is likely to soon be our most experienced defender. I understand and salute your passion for wanting to get the MFC going places. It is my opinion that Rivers will and should be retained. The outcome is likely that with that selection we would gain player that was inferior to Rivers. My opinion also is that Rivers along with just a few others has the courage and nous to help create a winning culture at the club. That would be traded away with him.

Rivers isnt going anywhere. Very good chance that next year or the year after he will be our most experienced defenders. You cannot trade away all of your experience regardless of whether they are likely to play in a GF or not. We need a general in the back half. we have a leadership vacuum that will get worse still. Rivers is the type of commodity we need to recruit rather than dispose of for an unknown quantity. Rivers has marking ability and above all brains and poise. Clone him dont trade him. Rivers, Jones, Mclean, Davey, Austin, Garland, P Johnson wont be traded.

if we had 2 or 3 players like rivers we could trade one of them. we don't. you will find that clubs that trade a quality player have a salary cap issue and an emabarrassment of riches of a particular type of player.

This is a pretty good assessment that I agree with the most part except for the Newton bit. Can he lead? He appears to me to be slow, difficult to kick to and spectates when the ball hits the ground. He strikes me as the old fashioned mark and kick type without any other strings. Great when he is the right position to take a grab but rarely gets himself into that possie either due to lack of running ability, nous or interest. Or perhaps a combination of these. Would love to see him do well and prove me an idiot. Just reporting my observations so far. As for the back line, Garland and Warnock are doing a reasonable job in difficult circumstances. Garland has a real future. He is the most athletic key backman I have seen at the club. I think he will develop. As he settles I hope he will develop some rebound and attack to his game.

agreed to a point, but maybe the year after. Carlton has got it right to a point (except for the cheating and losing picks bit). have got a number of high picks over a few years during which they landed stevens and then landed Judd and have started to make thier way up the ladder. Make no mistake they are on the way up. Judd is a champion player and great leader and their kids are starting to show thier worth. Barring injury they will be around the mark next year. Although you would have to say that if a class player became available it would remiss of us not to make a play. We do have a leadership vacuum and if we could get hold of a player who could bring an uncompromising, win at all costs attitude to our club then we need that (ie Brown), regradless of whether that player will play a part in our next finals series. A few father-sons wouldnt go astray. Maybe we need to consider a breeding program for past champions.

you're a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you mick? Try to be positive. We are 10 weeks into a season where we are playing heaps of kids with new coaching staff. Things will improve. The Woewodin decision turned out to be a sound one in hindsight.

brian wilson?

Others will have a different idea. I believe that we need a dangerous marking forward first and foremost. Secondly a pacy midfielder. Next I would say some classy and pacy half backs (these could come from our current list). These are the players that I think could feature in our next finals side B: Petterd Garland Warnock? HB: Rivers Mcnamara/Frawley/ Martin Green?(age) C: Davey Mclean Morton HF: Bate ?????? Sylvia?? F: Woneamirri ?????? PJ Foll: Meesen/Martin(Natanui/Warnock??) Grimes Jones I/C from: Wheatley, Miller, Moloney, Buckley, Maric, etc Not expected to be there: Bode, Carroll, Dunn, Jamar, CJ, Bartram, Bell, Newton. I would love some or all of these blokes to make it. My feeling is that they probably won't. There will be those expected to make it but won't and those who surprise. Obviously we lack key forwards and on looking at these guys I would say that we have some good strong six footers but need more pace. A few years ago we very much recruited players to give us strength over the footy. We now need to look at getting speed over the turf. The CHB possie is a worry also but heres hoping that Mcnamara, Frawley or Martin can make it. Not meant to cause a riot. Just looking at what we need. Be great to get four guns from the draft but I cant see it happening. If you get a star and a couple of very good -good players you are doing pretty well.

agree with this in sentiment. i take it that u mean we need to trade or give up picks to get a proven performer???? Problem with this is bar Brad Green we have dont have much to trade and I don't think we will give up picks.

Yep, the saints have had thier chances. it is our turn to not only build up our list but to develop the young guys in the current list. I agree we don't have the stars, with more consistency and less hamstring twanging davey could develop into one, maybe austin. but you dont need a team full of stars to win a premiership. you need a couple of matchwinners and a good mixed batch of fit, disciplined, focussed uncompromising players hell bent on success. Development and recruiting. Leadership and winning culture. These are the keys.

Davey, rivers, mclean, jones. all important for different reasons. davey is the only one who has the ability to find the ball in traffic, run around a couple of opponents and deliver it to a forward or kick a goal. rivers is the general of the backline and our best contested mark, also makes good decisions and puts himself in the right spot. mclean and jones are the engine room and we need them to get the ball moving forward. I would say with our lack of depth they are all equally important. Davey is the one who has the ability to turn a game, but even when he wins the footy and looks forward he needs a target to get it to. These will be our established senior players the next time we play finals. I agree with the sentiments on Garland and Bate. Garland is now an important player and will get the most athletic forward from here on in. He is the only "athlete" with the height and speed that can play this role. Hopefully his rebound game can develop. There is also nothing surer that someone unexpected will come through the ranks to stamp his importance on the side. That is the exciting part of watching the rebuilding. How good will Bate and Jones get. Will Austin play up the ground and make an impact?, Will Buckley develop. Valenti, Maric, Meesen, Martin?? Mcnamara is apparently one to watch. There are a lot of doomsdayers on this site. We have seen plenty of recent teams in the doldrums in the last decade that have rebuilt to have a crack under intense criticism. (Geelong and Hawks). Hold your nerve people and be patient. Honestly I would rather be Melbourne than St Kilda at the moment.

would rather see a player going and getting his own footy and giving it up a few times that an outside runner who gets cheap possessions (via blokes like jones) that can deliver the ball without pressure and rack up a nice clean possession count. also the amount of times jones is under the pack forcing a contest and causing a stop play without actually winning possession is incredible. watch this next week. without him the opposition would win even more of the footy. It was glaring against the Saints we dont have enough inside winners and haven't for years.

kudos to u. spot on. he is talented but he is also courageous and attacks the footy and takes on the game. he will be the engine room for many years to come. he does get caught a lot but there a reasons for this. 1. he wins most of our contested (close in) football 2. lack of suitable options running with him or upfield i believe that his decision making is sound for a player his age and it will improve. he also disposes of the ball under pressure a lot of the time because of those contested situations. I am confident if you gave opposition coaches a choice of a player on our list he would be close to the top. strong bodied, courageous 20 year old ball winners don't grow on trees. with a couple of classy midfielders around him he will shine. Please lay off this kid as he has a big heart and we need to get behind him.

have watched him for a few weeks. problem with bartram is that he is ano frills type who gets himself into contests. problem is he does not have the strength to stand up in tackles or to impose himself on his opponent. he has speed and a motor but he cannot physically play the game that he is trying to play. He is not useless but I think that the coaching staff need to redefine his role, maybe through the 2s.

good 2nds form often doesnt equate to good senior form. Valenti has shown that he is worth perservering with over a few of the others who have had plenty of chances. Like Nathan Jones he gets his own ball and is hard at the contest. Players like him will get you first use of the footy. Lynden Dunn and Chris Johnson have not been able to consistently do that in the seniors. How about Clint Bartram. Does his form warrant first 18 selection?

watched Shane Valenti's progress this year and believe that he has all the attributes of a strong, skilful and hard running rover. thought he was a bit stiff to get dropped. he contested pretty well considering his limited game time. i really believe that this kid will be very good player for us. should dunn and johnson been brought in at his expense??