CHF

Could we replace Pickles with a different version of Pickles in the draft? Billy Evans?

We have a duty of care towards Jack. The club needs to honour the contract in full to give him the best opportunity to fully recover from the injuries he received at his workplace. As it would be for any of us in similar circumstances. I am sure that this time next year there will have been a full reassessment of the situation against his contract circumstances and a way forward will be agreed. If his injury precludes his playing football again and he retires I believe that the club will still support him in any way it can with all medical requirements to allow him to lead a full and proper life after football. To do anything else would be wrong. I watched Ox go through his three knee recos and at no time was there talk of cutting him loose. I know this is a very different injury, but I believe Jack has shown enough to be given every chance to get back.

Jack, This will be very bad news for the Essendon players. As I understand it, Asada as it was set up by the Government, Is different to other international doping agencies because it is not perceived as fully independent for Govt. influence. If Asada do not get their act together and impose a proper penalty on the Bombers then it could very well have a seriously detrimental effect on Australian sports men and women competing on the international stage.

I agree with all of the above as the product of the evolution of the AFL with the power transferring to the players. However, I have not seen any where that the club is considering him for trade. RFC floated a possible trade at the last moment on Friday evening and the club is diligently looking at it and asking Jack if he would entertain it. Three things could happen with this proposal from here. 1. Jack says " No. I want to stay with the MFC." 2. Jack says " Yeah. I would consider it." in that case the Club looks at the deal offered and either accepts it as proposed or negotiates to a better position before accepting it. As it stands at the moment, there is a deal on the table and MFC is yet to respond. Personally I do not have enough information to evaluate what would be best for either Jack or the MFC. There are too many moving parts to it from the outside and I have no idea how this deal may impact on other possible deals out there. As a collective I am sure that the MFC has very clear ambitions for this trade/drafting season and I would hope they have the flexibility to react to the very fluid situation that is inherent in this period of the year. MFC must compromise on their ambitions as little as possible. With only three trades done, this has been the most interesting trade period in years.

This is the winds of change blowing through the AFL. We, as supporters want it all our way. Players have FA which has trampled player loyalty to a club. In my mind the players have to accept the consequences of that and that is that Club loyalty to them has evolved into a commercial/business decision. Jack might well be loyal to us in exactly the same way Frawley was. Bled red and blue until FA time and then he could not get out the door quick enough. ( T$... " I want to be a one club player.") Richmond made an offer and the club and the player are evaluating that offer. I would be seriously annoyed if the club did not work through the deal and do due diligence on it. Take the personal emotion out of it and look at the possible outcome for all involved.

Redleg, the difference between the two deals is that one is done and dusted and the other is still being negotiated and is far from signed, sealed and delivered.

Whale, I am not sure what is going on with Dangerfish but one thing I do know after trawling through the last few pages of this thread is that if we do manage to land him we will need to be shore that he is accepted into the club and does not feel like a fish out of water.

A question... If we were to entice an unrestricted FA to come to us would it be possible for him to sit tight until November the 28th and the delisted free agent period started and then come to us? That would then not effect our compensation or any drafting opportunities.

I would not be surprised if we did our main trading with the two clubs we dealt with last year, Adelaide and GWS. Both to my mind have talent that want to move and we have the motivation to trade in talent. I also think the progress of Tyson, Vince and to a lesser extent Riley will also appeal to some "unrealized" young talent at a range of clubs that can see that being at the Dees under Roos and his team will give them development opportunities and playing opportunities that are not available to them at other clubs. It will be an interesting month or so.

WJ, if (and it is a BIG "if") the Commission is to look at the Assistance issue correctly, then it must be viewed independently of any other issue including what may, or may not eventuate with Frawley's free agency. that is a separate issue where the rules for compensation are very straight forward. The Mitch Clark situation may be taken into account when considering Assistance. As it stands at the moment, we have Pick 2. If the Commission do award us a priority pick in this years draft I would expect that it would be one of the following; Pick 1 (highly unlikely), Pick 3 as a selection after our first round pick (maybe, but unlikely) or a selection after the end of round 1(Most likely I believe). Then once the situation with Frawley is clear then that compensation will be determined. if necessary. The situation is very fluid. We could end up with picks 1, 3 &4 plus our second round as a best case scenario or with just pick 2 plus our second round if Frawley stays and we do not get a favorable consideration from the Commission.. One thing I do not know is if there are any outstanding picks from the GWS/GCS that can be activated this draft. An interesting week coming up.

It is the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg. We need a structure in which to develop the players, and to date over the last few years, this structure has been lacking. To me in the past it seems as if we have recruited players and believed that with low draft picks we have a completed player ready to go and in no need of nurturing and development. Now we are in a situation of maturing players that have not had the support and development they required. Therefore, your assertion that the players are not good enough may well be correct. I am prepared to give them a chance to develop within a proper structure for a while before I kick them out. Frawley is a great example of the players problems with the club. Chops and changes with the footy department, upheaval in the administration and uncertainty with the future of the coaching team and on top of that, no enjoyment in playing the game he loves. put in place a structure to get the best out of Frawley and you will have solved 90% of the problems with the team.

It has been a long while since I had the opportunity to watch the Dees live because I have been living in Europe for a number of years. When possible I watch replays and every now and then a live streaming. I have been able to watch replays of the first two rounds and my observation is that I really feel for the players and the way that they have been coached and treated for the last 3-4 years. They have had to go through 3 different coaching setups and styles. 3 (at least) different game plans. That is assuming none of the three Coaches Had/have a plan B. They have faced the internal upheavals to the club management and the death of a club legend who was the President and driving force. On top of that, a media blitz and detailed analysis of every event. Early on in Neeld's coaching stint I questioned his methods. I did not think his 'My way or the Highway' attitude to the players was correct. Instead of looking at any strengths there were within the group and working to those strengths while also working towards a game plan, he stopped them dead in their tracks and said 'This is the direction you are taking. No exceptions. Do it now.' To my mind this completely demotivated individuals and destroyed any group culture. It sucked the life out of the team and there was no enjoyment in it for the players. Over the last few seasons this has just compounded into to an endless downward cycle. The task Roos has is a formidable one. He has to restore the individuals and also the fabric of the team. To my mind, work with the individual players as closely as possible. Give them the framework in which to work (game plan) and make sure that they know they will need to take risks to succeed. Some of those risks will work and some will not. The only repercussions of failure will be because of failure to learn from the mistakes. I would love to see my team winning. It has been a while and that will take a bit more time to come about. What I want to see every week from my team in the interim is that they go out there and provide some excitement. They go out there and show enjoyment in playing the game, some passion. The game plan is important to long term success but to expect them to go out there and execute it 100% from day one is a fantasy. We are playing a high passion game with limited skills and practice at doing so. we have had exactly 2 competitive games to express this style of play and very limited opportunities at turning possession into attack with confidence and speed. In any team sport one of the keys to success is sped and precision of transition from defence to attack and vice versa. Our team has not had the experiences to execute these important phases of play. Look at he West Coast game. Their speed and precision on the turnover was great. One big factor in this was that they knew that their team mate would compete for the ball and they started their movement for space half a pace (at least) before we could react. With our lack of a workable coaching structure and lack of success over the last few years the club has retarded the development of a number of key players. We will need time to bring them on and make sure we can get the very best out of them. 1 pre-season is not enough to complete the job. I will be very disappointed if Roos walks after 3 seasons and equally disappointed if Jackson leaves after this season. The team and the club need a period of continuity and stability if they are to survive and give themselves and opportunity to thrive. I am as [censored] off at the results such as last weekend as the next supporter but I believe I have an understanding of how we came to be in this situation. I still need to see that we have the tools to dig our way out of the present situation. All I ask is that the team and coaches give me a bit of excitement each week. Something to enjoy. Forget about media scrutiny and Political correctness. I know that the team is just as [censored] off with losing as I am. Be mindful of the long term ambitions of the GAME PLAN but play with passion and enjoyment each and every week. Do handstands, climb a goal post, run circles around someone that is standing you. Enjoy yourselves, take us along for the ride. I care about the results and will always follow the Dees but I would like return on my investment of time, money and passion over the years. Not asking for much. A bit of excitement and a bit of enjoyment, a laugh or two. End of rant and if you have read this far, I salute you.

I am looking forward to the start of the season and I think, given the outs, this is about the best side we could expect. I like the fact that the club is taking a very conservative approach with injury and giving players time to fully recover. As for labeling players 'duds', I am more than willing to see how the individuals respond to the new coaching setup and the new attitudes within the club before crossing anyone off the list. To my mind, it is a clean sheet with the coaches and we should adopt exactly the same attitude. Looking for a win here.

9 is an interesting position to be in for the draft this year as it seems there is a lot of players that could fit the bill between selections 5 and 17. I expect the 1-4 will be Boyd, Kelly, Aish and Scharenberg with only Boyd locked in at No1. I get the feeling that if GWS were to select Scharenberg with 2, as I think they might, then it will have a dramatic effect on the order of the next 10 or so selections with teams scrambling to get a player that best suits their lists and playing style. if Scharenberg goes 2 I think Aish will slip a couple of spots with St Kilda having a crack at Kelly and Bullies going with either Billings or Bontempelli before Asih. Suns to take Suns to take one of those three with their selection. Collingwood will then have either Bontempelli or Freeman or Aish if he slips. Lions I get the feeling will go for Lennon. Demons will take Freeman if he is there. If not maybe Dunstan My prediction: 1. Boyd 2. Scharenberg 3. Kelly 4. Billings 5. Bontempelli 6. Asih 7. Lennon 8. McDonald 9. Freeman That still leaves a lot of pretty even talent with the likes of Crouch, Sheed, Dunstan, Acres, Taylor, Salem Kolo and to be honest, I would not be upset at getting any of them. Given our recent record, it is more important what happens after we have selected them. P.S. - I would hate to see Collingwood get Aish.

Rumour - Frawley/Shiel - Straight swap - I heard it I am passing it on for what it is worth.

Consider this a bit of a view from the outter as I have been away from Australia (sitting in Cairo at the moment) for an extended period and have not seen my Demons play for quite a while. Atleast, I have not seen my Melbourne based Demons play. I have had plenty of other personal demons let loose to play in the not-too-distant past. From all that I have read and watched over this season I am sure that the pre-season and season we have just all endured has been a brutally steep learning curve for all the players that are/were on our list. they have had to learn about a new reality in their working lives. Their professional boundaries were re-set and they needed to understand where they lay. They had a new set of working guidlines that they had to learn and adhere to for the games. Some players tried and failed to get to the required standards and some of those will be given another chance to achieve, some will not. Some players tried and found they flourished they, of course, will be kept. Some players did not try. Guess what will happen to them? All the players will be assessed against a number of criteria set in place by the Football Department made up primarily of the coaching panel who themselves have gone through a steep learning curve. First year senior coach with a new coaching team. I am sure that they have learnt a lot, not just about the players, but also about their jobs and personal abilities, the team work required of their department and the roles they are expected to play. As I am sure that they will ask the players to assess their own performace, that of their team mates and also the performance of the coaching staff and administration, I am also sure that the coaching staff will ask the same of themselves. That level of season end feedback is the minimum that I would expect. I believe that Neeld is on the right track and I will be very interested to see how he might adjust his style and methods in the next season. If he does not learn from his experiences them he will lose me and, I expect, a lot of the players. I am not about to judge this season until I see it in context of the development over the next couple of years. I am sure we, as supporters have learnt a lot this years. I also believe the players and coaches have learnt a lot. the difference between us and them is that they can effectively apply what they have learnt to achieve an improved outcome and we can really just decide to buy an membership or not.

Good point. There might be a lot of improvement from Neeld as well. Afteral,l he is on a steep learning curve as well. I would expect him to have a good close look at what he and the rest of the coaching panel have done this season and look at what they can do to improve.

King, I agree with you re Howe. He has been fgreat for us and is an exciting player. the questionmark is in regard to how much more improvement there is in him. Strauss has a lot of improvement in him.

I have been here for years but have not posted much. I have posted more than half a dozen posts but it seems they were so long ago that they do not register. I do not need any slack. If someone does not want another opinion, so be it.

Will not keep me awake at night. we got very little from those 5 this year and do not expect that to change next season. the development/improvement has to come from others. I would not mind if some of our younger players modeled themselves on Rivers and/or Jamar. Sylvia is another matter.

A simple thing. If we improve more than the teams above us by enough then we move upthe rankings. Where is the improvement going to come from? Will it be internal development and natural improvement of individual players on the list? Will it be because we have brought better players on to the list? Will it be because of the development and understanding of the 'Game Plan'? I am of the opinion that we have a lot of upside with the present list we have with a few exceptions and that this is where the main development/improvement will come from. I have had a look at the list and have graded them on potential improvement. Gawn - If he can get over his injury and stay fit for a while I think he will offer something for us in 2-3 years time. Will not add a lot next year. Spencer - Has surprised with what he has shown in the last few games. if he can build on that he will give us improvement next year. Fitzpatrick - Needs a big pre-season to build up a bit. Will not add to overall improvement next year unless he surprises. Clarke - Missed him later half of the season and if he get a full season out of him it will be a significant improvement. Martin - He is developing well and he give us a little more next season. Jamar - If we get him on the ground and playing to reasonable standard we will get improvement. Watts - Was getting better with each game played. Will give us improvement next year. Sellar - What you see is what you get I believe. Will give us coverage and depth. Cook - See Fitzpatrick. T. McDonald - I see a big upside to this kid. Like the way he plays and will add to the overall improvement to the team next year. Frawley - Will get better each year. Rivers - What you see is what you will get next year. Morton - Don't believe he will improve. Would like to see it, he has all the tools, but I have my doubts. Dunn - Has been a victim of the lack of development at the club for junior players in the immediate past. May improve if the team around him lifts. Davis - No opinion. Bate - A bit like Dunn. Will only improve in a better team. Garland - Should improve. Will he? Howe - Good player but IMO needs proper direction and will add a lot to a properly structured team. Additional impact next year? or maybe the year after? Gysberts - Has upside but will have limited additrional improvement next year. Expect a bit more from him the season after. MacDonald - What you see is what you get. Jurrah - Anything we get out of him next year will be an improvement. If he is on the list I would expect a big season from him. Taggart - Big upside to him if he takes the proper steps. Grimes - Would think he will contribute more next season than this season. Tynan - No opinion. Sylvia - I think he is responding to Neeld's coaching and will add a greater degree of comsistancy to his game. MacKenzie - Is effective at what he does and I believe he will continue. Trengove - See Grimes Strauss - Will add to the improvement next year. lots of upside. Petterd - Don't think he will improve to be honest. Green - Thanks for the memories. Blease - Will add a lot to us over the season next year. Bail - What you see is what you get. Moloney - Had a bad year and does not seem to have adjusted to the new coaching. if he is on the list next year and he improves he will give us a lift. Do not expect to see him in the R&B. Bartram - Do not know that we will see him running around next year. Hope the injury responds. Tapscott - Natural development plus a step up? I hope so. Jones - Best season so far and would love to see him step it up a bit more. Jetta - Do not see much improvement next year to be honest. Bennell - As with Jetta Davey - Love to him improve on this season...needs to.... Of the list I can see these players being looked at as possible moves, either de-listed or traded. Green - retired Jurrah - So many question marks. Bartram - Possible move to Rookie list with his injury. Moloney - Trade? Dunn - Trade? Bate - Trade? Davis - ? Bennell - ? Morton - ? Sellar - ? I would not be surprised if there are a couple of our better players or players with clear potential being offered up at the trade table so we can get what we want to cover a few weaknesses. Gysberts? Taggart? Tapscott? Aside from the development of players I can see a general improvement with the game plan being a season older and another pre-season to work on it. These two elements are critical to our improvement relative to the other clubs. withour these we can import all the class we like but it will not give us the improvemtn we crave. Well, a long post and I am sure there are a lot that will disagree and have their own ideas. We all have opinions and this is mine.

I voted that he will make it in AFL. I recall that he was taken in the same draft as Bate and Dunn and, if I recall correctly, was around selection number 55/56. The three players were the three youngest players taken in that draft and, at the time, it was considered a good move by a number of people. However with the ND structure I believe that we lacked a viable structure for development of young players. I think this has been addressed in the last couple of years and that it will continue to be addressed in the near future. I have not seen him play recently as I am based in Europe. but I do recall his early games at the club and I thought he had ab bit to offer. Given that Dunn, bate and newton were all very young when they entered into the system and that i do not think the system was all that good at the time i would make sure these kids are given every opportunity to come good under the present structure. I would hope that Newton and the other two are given all the support the club can offer in the next pre-season and season to make sure that we see the best that they can offer before making decisions.

This one of the better threads on Newton that I have read either here or on other boards. I have not seen newton play as yet, (I am based overseas) so in all honesty I cannot comment one way or the other regarding his ability, mind-set or any other aspect of his game. What I can comment on is the last few years and and the way we have developed young players. I think this is one aspect of the club has been a success story. Rather than hold players back for no good reason the football coaches seem to have introduced the young players into the team at the right time. Jones has come in and looks like a permanent fixture. Last year Bartram's selection in round 1 surprised everyone and he stayed there the whole season. Bate and Dunn have been developed and used intelligently. Further back over ND's years a similar thing has happened. McLean and Sylvia came in and have developed well. (even given Colin's OP) Rivers and Davey were alos used well. My point is, after all the experience that the club has had with development of young players, after getting it right so many times, why would we not think they have it right with Newton. He was taken in the draft with Bate and Dunn. all three were the youngest taken in that draft and Newton was the youngest of the three. With the introduction and development of young players I will support the coaching panel.