sylvinator

Probably agree 5 delistings. That allows McKenzie and Spenser to be upgraded and 3 draft picks. Seems reasonable. If we keep taking the hardline on players we have the last few seasons, then if players aren't in our long term plans, then they will be delisted even if they still have something to offer at afl level (See Robbo, Wheatley and even Buckley last year). I would have thought that the ones in trouble are - PJ- we are desperately in search of a second ruckman, being forced to play Miller and Sylvia in the ruck. If we aren't willing to play him despite our dire need for a second ruckman proves he just isn't part of future plans. Only reason to keep him would be as depth in case Jamar goes down. I think the club rates Spenser and even Martin ahead of poor PJ. - Miller- if we are taking a hard line, then we know that this guy is not part of our future plans. He is there purely to provide a contest until Jurrah, Pettard and Watts develop. Miller has been an interum player filling a need, but I feel that need might be over next year - Bell- the guy has had injuries, but at 24 years old, if you haven't cemented a starting 22 place in the team, you don't deserve to be on an afl list. Certain delisting imo - McNamara- If we're being honest, this guy is in trouble, even though he's very young. He is a tall defender, and Frawley, Garland, Rivers, Warnock are certainties to play each week, with Joel McDonald, Martin and Cheney as other defenders that are ahead of McNamara. That's 7-8 players he's going to have to leap frog to even get a look in. If we are trying to open up spots on our list he would have to be in trouble. If he was a forward, he'd be certain to stay on the list, but he plays a position that we have plenty of - Martin- For exactly the same reasons as McNamara, you'd assume he'd have to be in a little bit of trouble. Has unsuccessfully tried to be turned into a forward. - Maric- I always had high hopes for him, but in the brutal business that is AFL, he'd have to be in trouble. Has been absolutely terrible at afl level this season after showing promise in his first year. about 10 young players have shot past him. He still shows promise at vfl level, but he would really need to step it up in the second half of the year. - Cheney- For similar reasons to PJ. I think he could possibly be in trouble. We have an obvious and clear need for a small running defender and yet the coaches have left him languishing at vfl level. He has performed well at vfl level, but has some obvious deficiencies in his game (kicking, speed, skills). The fact he hasn't been played at all this year makes me think he's not part of future plans I think Dunn and Bartram are safe for at least one more season. They have big strong mature bodies and have proven that they can impact games consistently while also providing a bit of strength around the younger bodies. Wonaeamirri, Bail, Jetta and Strauss will definitely get another season to prove themselves. I would delist all of our 4 remaining rookies (Meesan, Newton, Hughes, Healy), leaving us with 6 rookies to select, enabling us to take a couple of risks on ruckman, or mature age vfl players.

I thought Watts was OK. pretty good actually. 2-3 times he lost his feet, or did other mistakes, but not the end of the world. He will be a very good player one day. I'm sure of that. What has me a little down, is that I was hoping he would become MFC's absolute superstar. I know you can look at the stats, but the absolute superstars show that 'super star' ability early on. Reiwoldt won the rising star award in his second season. Franklin kicked 100 goals in his third. I'm just not seeing that special quality in Watts that makes me think he could be the next premier forward in the comp. More realistically I think he could easily become a very good 50-60 goal a year forward, which would be great.

The awesome thing about Grimes, is that he is actually awesome defensively. He always gets a punch in, lays the tackle. He also provides great drive! However, his best position is probably midfield, purely because he has always been a midfielder and it is probably the position he will make the most impact. He is such an incredible young player, I have such a man crush. Honestly, he is one of the best young players i've ever seen come through the demons (admittedly, i'm 23 years old). I forsee the rebounders from defence in 2 years time being 1. Grimes (hoping others come through, so we can move him to midfield) 2. Strauss Clearly, we need to look to stock up more on this area. There is a reason why Bruce is being played at half back. it's because we have few options. Defensive small defenders, who provide less rebound 1. Bartram 2. Cheney 3. Garland (able to play on small forwards) It's pretty thin, we definitely should be looking for more small rebounding defenders. A lot is dependant on Strauss becoming a gun, putting a lot of pressure on him

Mark Williams does a pretty honest assessment of all players http://www.melbourne...24/default.aspx

QUOTE(Bring-Back-Powell @ Jul 15 2008, 06:15 AM) I'd trade him if another club is keen enough. Has not impressed me at all. _____________________ Just think it's interesting to go through some guys who didn't set the footy world alight early. Of coarse, as was the same with Garland before him, and now Watts after him, there were 2 different camps. Camp 1- realises that almost never do key position players influence games until 21 years old, and their body's are bulked enough for AFL footy. People in this camp can see 'elite characteristics' in certain players, like elite pace/agility, or marking or spoiling. These people aren't surprised when guys like Sylvia and Frawley start dominating games because they are able to see that quality is quality, even when they don't have the body to dominate. Camp 2- judge players on a week by week basis, writing young players off far too early and being frustrated why a 19 year old is showing enough soon enough. Which type of poster are you?

I might stand corrected on this point. But having watched the championships that year, Strauss was not playing any sort of defensive role. He might have played some time as a high half back, but it was more wing and midfield than anything. He certainly wasn't doing any defensive jobs that i remember

Not sure what made you think that. Coaches see holes in the team that need to be filled. One clear gaping hole is at half back where we lack someone with immaculate skills to drive our forward movements (ala Gilbee, Gibbs, Drummand). At the moment, that role is being played by Cam Bruce (shoddy skills), Joel Macdonald (shoddy skills), Frawley (ok skills), Garland/Rivers/Warnock offer no drive from defence. Cheney and McNamara are defenders waiting in the wings who have ok skills only. That is the reason why Grimes has been playing a defensive role and it is also the reason why Strauss is trying to be groomed for that role. They have even tried Bennel as a defender because of his good skills, but moved him away because he clearly didn't have good enough defensive skills. I am of the opinion that you should play youngsters in positions that play to their strengths! If I were on the coaching staff, I would be pushing for Bennel at half forward, Strauss on a wing and Grimes in the guts. The only reason those 3 players have been played in defence is because they have good skills and our current crop of defenders either don't offer enough drive/rebound from defence or don't have the skills to pull it off.

The football department/ coaches

does anyone else have the feeling that they are trying to mould Strauss into a player he just really isn't suited to. Strauss is a midfielder. He has beautiful skills. When he was playing in under18 champs (with Watts and Blease), he was playing in the middle hitting Watts on the chest 10 times a game. I feel that we really really want a great half back flankers with great footskills (like a Gilbee, Drummand type) and so we're trying to make him into a defender. He obviously doesn't have the natural instincts as a defender. Whenever he plays at senior level at the demons he struggles to stay tight to his forward. I reckon just let the kid play where he is best suited, not try to fit him into our need for a half back flanker. If we want a running defender, why not try Cheney, who is actually a natural defender!

Is the point of this thread the fact that the bombers get huge crowds and therefore deservedly don't have to play in Skilled Stadium which only seats 50,000 or so? If we can get 60,000 plus to games regularly, then we deserve not to play at geelong also. Good on the bombers for getting such consistently huge crowd attendance if you ask me. So don't agree with that call. If your thread is about the bombers misfortune, then a strange thread.Cats are awesome. We got belted by them as well. I think we have enough of our own worries atm (we are still very much a work in progress), so not sure why your so pleased at the misfortune of the bombers. Pears, Ryder, Zaka, Melksham, Gumby, Hurly, Hocking... they got a few young guns I wouldn't be too hopeful of them being a basket case. Bombers are a better team than us atm. However looking forward 2 years i see us streaking past them.

I'm very impatient with Cale's inability to put on proper muscle. I know that if he weighed 95kg, at 194cm... with his skills and running ability and natural ball winning ability. Plus his over head marking... He could be absolutely dominant. However atm he gets rag dolled ALOT and can't shrug tackles. It limits his ability to dominate. I reckon he has the biggest upside of any player on our list, including Watts. Morton could be unbelievable

Boak for Gysberts straight swap? Boak= gun and genuine A - grade midfielder. Good skills, hard at it can win contested ball. Would be great addition to our midfield. Gysberts= very promising youngster who is potential A grader, but for all we know, after playing 50 afl games may turn out he's only a B-grader. Gysberts does NOT have A-grade skill level, though may turn out that he has A-grade ball winning ability. Lots of unknowns. I know i'd do that in a heart beat. And that's considering i rate Gysberts pretty highly!

Horrendous opening post. 4 reasons why: 1. You are basically making the argument that only outstanding players can be outstanding coaches. That because Mahoney wasn't a superstar (though he did win a premiership and was a very good player) he isn't a good coach. That line is argument is totally flawed. Plenty of great sport coaches/managers around the world (not limiting it to AFL) have been the very best, most astute coaches, despite not being superstar players themselves. I would also point out that our senior coach, Dean Bailey, played barely 50 AFL games, less than Mahoney, and was less of a player than Mahoney is. So what DO Mahoney and Bailey offer you ask? During their playing days they were both extremely professional players, who worked harder than every body else to get the most out of the limited amount of talent. This is an important quality for any player to emulate. They are also both supposed to be brilliantly astute tacticians who understand the game of AFL up there with any other AFL coach. 2. Secondly, I don't think you, or any other person on this site knows the work that Mahoney puts into making our forward line function. We only see the results on game day. So basically you are saying that because we aren't kicking huge scores each week, that is Mahoney's fault (because the forward line is his responsibility). However that is a very simplistic and, once again, flawed argument. The overall team score cannot be placed solely on the forward line. Goals are a product of delivery into the forward line and the amount of inside 50s as well. I would argue that over the past 3 seasons, the delivery into the forward line has been horrendous and our inside 50 count would be the lowest in the league. I would argue that were MFC forwards had a Geelong-esk midfield, our scores would increase dramatically. 3. You fail to mention the fact that in terms of developed talent/personelle, our forward line is, at the moment, our huge weak point. That is due to poor drafting from 2002-2005 (Miller, Molan, Nick Smith all failed KPF's drafted) and the over reliance from 2006-2008 on recently retired players like Neitz and Robertson. Would you agree that this is not Josh Mahoney's fault. For that reasons, the forwards on our list include Watts (6 games, drafted 2008), Bennell (15 games drafted 2008), Jurrah (9 games drafted 2008), Fitzpatrick (0 games, drafted 2009). Yes, we have Pettard, Bate and Green who are good forwards. However, due to the reasons in the above paragraph, we have been forced to play spuds/poor players like Miller, Newton, Hughes, Dunn and Martin in the key forward positions. I mean honestly, how many teams would kick huge scores with so many poor players having to play in key positions? The predicament has not been helped by LTI to Pettard and Jurrah, who would both make our forward line much more potent. As Cam Shwab mentioned in another thread, our hope is to look forward 2 years and imagine our forwards fully developed. I am excited by a future forward line of Watts, Jurrah, Pettard, Bate, Green, Bennell and Sylvia. If you are not, then you must have a pretty [censored] poor imagination. 4. Your English is terrible. Barely readable

MFC's drafting in 2009 was next to flawless imo. Pick 1 & 2- Scully & Trengove--- spot on picks. 2 players that will be superstars and core members of our future midfield pick 11- Gysberts---- grabbed the opportunity to take a 'different type' of midfielder. 190cm tall midfielder who is good at clearances and feeding the ball to outside players. Will complement our midfield nicely. Pick 18- Tapscott---- absolute steal.... could add another dimension to half forward/ midfield with his ability to kick the ball 65m All these picks strengthen our midfield greatly. Pick 35- Gawn----- for a relatively low pick, we need another ruckman and this guy could be a goer. time will tell Pick 50- Fitzy---- in last year's draft this pick was relatively speculative. 200cm ruck/forward worth a shot

I don't want any forwards that can't be trusted to kick straight in front of goal. Morton is a lottery with his kicking. Don't want that come finals time

I'm just thankful you're not part of the match committee. Rediculous outs. - Bennel has had a really valuable contribution to our team. He is a big part of our future and adds something different and dynamic to the forward line - Watts imo absolutely MUST play every game for the rest of the season if he is fit. This is a year of development for him. The quicker we get 50 afl games under his belt, the quicker he will be impacting of games. - Bruce- sick of this suggestion every week. He is in our best 18 by a long way, whether people like to deny it or not Garland, not sure if he's injured or not. medical staff can decide that. If he's available, then he'll be critical against Carlton's small forwards. Rivers might be a victim of Carlton's small forward line... so i agree with you there. But Joel MacDonald is an inferior player to Rivers and should be dropped before Rivers.

In terms of development, it is a bit of a shame that Tapscott, Gawn, Blease have missed this season and missed an opportunity to develop themselves as players. It means that next year will essentially be their first year in terms of development. It means we can't expect anything meaningful from these guys until 2012.

The guys 195cm, 102kg. He has supreme pace, agility, evasiveness. His marking will be elite. If O'Hailpin can make it from hurling, no doubt Falau can make it. Very jealous, wish he was coming to the demons

I don't know who will go out... But Scully, Trengove and Bate are certain inclusions. All 3 are in our best 15 players, probably in our best 10. McKenzie imo is our in starting 18. not sure why he's out of favour. Cheney would have to be considered with Carlton's small forwards

Whilst I agree Pettard in GC watching GC17 doesn't confirm anything... it does just add to more speculation he is leaving. There sure are a lot of things pointing to him going: - Pettard is from the goldcoast and he has family and friends there - He is a good player, a goal kicker, still young, and the exact type of player GC17 would be after - He follows GC17 on twitter and went to watch there match this week- clearly he has been taking a very strong interest in them. I don't think there is any doubting that - He has been quoted as saying (paraphrase)- 'i love the demons and would like to stay, however i would also love to play in front of my family and friends'--- clearly there is an internal struggle going on Ultimately, he may stay. If he does, it would be because he realises that the demons have such an exciting future, both on the field, and off (moving into first class facilities in a month). However I would be completely unsuprised if he left. I don't think the rumours are completely just false rumour mungering. Luckily Pettard is a medium forward, a position that is not critical to the team (cf a key position player or ruckman) and we have plenty of other medium sized forwards- Sylvia, Green, Jurrah, Jetta

You may have been trying to make a stir with the call on Grimes... but that's only because it is completely wrong! Grimes is a good kick and has very good decision making. The only reason why he sometimes is perceived to have a poor kick is because he gets most of his kicks deep in defence, under immense pressure, where any mistake is going to be highlighted because it costs a goal. I play defence for my soccer team and it is the same way. Defenders makes a mistake= goal to the opposition. forwards make a mistake= turn it over in a non-dangerous position. Therefore, any mistake a defender makes is remembered, while midfielders and forwards make countless turnovers and it is more forgiven. Grimes has probably hit more targets this season than any other player in our team! I definitely feel same with the ball in his hand. He's 19 y.o. He will make some mistakes. But that doesn't make him a C+ kick. Rediculous call.

I don't expect Garland to be back to his best until next year, but he is crucial to our long term defence. in 2008 he was our best defender. Now he is part of a team of Frawley, Warnock, Grimes, Rivers and then Garland who can play equally on talls, smalls and mediums. Garland is the best match up for any tricky medium sized forwards which play such an important role in modern footy. Go dees

Lol at people who talk like they actually know something about recruiting draft talent and bagging our recruiters for picking up Gysberts instead of Tahlia or Black at pick 11. When will people realise that the recruiters actually know a thing or two. Tahlia and Black are non-Key position very tall flankers, who do not add something essential too our future structure going forward. Gysberts is a 188cm, inside link-man, who can get contested possessions clean out of the middle and feed them to our runners going past. with clean hand passing and being a ball magnet, he will add something really great to our midfield.

Lewis could be playing for the demons for the last pick in the rookie draft. hindsight in beautiful

Flaser isn't the answer. The problem is that I wouldn't trade a top 30 pick for a second ruckman (PJ for pick 20 was a DUD trade, as was Wood for pick 14 and Warnock for 21), yet you won't get anyone of quality without spending that much. Probably the best thing to do is to keep drafting ruckman with late picks and rookie picks. Jamar, Sandi etc are all from the rookie draft and even guys like Sam Jacbos are servicable. The scary thing, is that if we'd lost that game to Carlton, we'd have had pick 1 instead of pick 4, and would have had the PP before the first round the following year, instead of after (pick 2, instead of pick 18) If we'd lost that one game, our ruck division would be: Jamar, Kruiser and Nic Natanui. WOWOWOWOW!!!!