sylvinator

You're probably right, he is a list clogger. HOWEVER, we have to responsible with our rucks. We shouldn't be playing Gawn or Fitzpatrick in the ruck next year unless they show they're ready to play, which is unlikely. We certainly don't want to be playing Newton, Dunn or Sylvia in the ruck, which is what we'd have to do if Jamar was at all injured next year. Getting a guy in the rookie draft who can save us from mismanaging our other players is a worthwhile investment. It doesn't have to be Skipper, but we MUST get a mature age ruckman in the draft who could fill in if Jamar went down. Skipper is probably the best option and has showed he can be a decent fill in for Hawthorn

Darling is very different type of player to Tappscott. 190cm is sufficiently tall to be key position forward if he's talented enough (Fev 191cm, Neitz 191cm, Carey 190cm, Pav 191cm). He has the build of a key forward as well. Tapscott is a stocky built midfielder who has good goal sense so can play at half forward.

If we're talking delisted players, apparently there's a running half back flanker with really good kicking skills that's just been delisted by Carlton.

very funny, but its been plagarised hundreds of times over the past 10 years.

I believe 5 of those guys are rookie listed players, they've only delisted 6 from the senior list. We should also clean out our rookie list and get a few smokies

Skipper would be a very decent option for a rookie list spot, as insurance if Jamar goes down injured at all. Skipper has shown this year he can be competitive at afl level if he's called upon. He's not a star, but would be a handy insurance policy. There is no doubt in the rookie draft we're going to pick up a mature age ruckman from some lower league, Skipper at least has some proven form at afl level.

If there was ever an argument of the importance of great coaching and a great game plan that can win a premiership, it is collingwood. I mean honestly, does anyone think NBrown, Dawes, Dick, Goldsack, Macaffer, Beams, L.Brown, Blair, Toovey and L.Ball are such amazing players? Are they any better that our boys? They're not even any older than our boys. Sure, they had 3-4 really great players- Swan, Pendlebury, Didak and Shaw... and some other really good players in Jolly, Cloke, Maxwell and O'Brien. But the actual truth is that they are well-drilled, they know their roles in the team, they play with high intensity and a drive to win. They are young, yet tackle with a kind of agressive obsession. I see no reason why we can't be the next Collingwood, with Sylvia, Frawley, Jamar, Scully, Trengove, Grimes, Garland, Jurrah, Watts and Pettard. We now have the facilities, we need to get the best coaches possible and ensure the group has the drive to win a premiership. Collingwood has proven age is no factor. Our best 22 will be the equivalent age and games experience to Collingwood by 2012, and therefore, by 2012 we should be pushing top 4 and premierships.

89. For a guy 196cm, he realistically won't be imposing himself at AFL level till he is 95kg+. By the start 2012 he should be 95kg with 40 games experience, and ready to have a really big break out season. Perfect timing just as we are starting to make finals

If he increased from 89 to 92 this preseason, and then from 92-96 the following preseason, he should be ready to really grab games by the scruff of the neck by 2012. Very responsible management by the club

Very true. It's all well and good to get the very high picks right, but if we are to win a premiership, if may very well be because of these guys. I still have high hopes for Gysberts, Tapscott and Blease, though all 3 are untried so far. I'm still disappointed we passed on Tayte Pears for Maric in 2007, that could be a miss. Strauss also doesn't look great so far but he'll have a couple of yrs to prove himself, we passed on a lot of awesome talent to get him (Zaharakis, Hannebury, Beams, Ballanyne, Suban, Redden)

I posted this in antoher thread, but i thought its relevant... I understand the concerns about height, but I don't think it should be overstated. More important is body build and how you play. For example, Brennan in 195cm, yet has a very slim build and doesn't play like a KPP. Cale Morton is 194cm and is a running midfielder. On the other hand, Brendan Fevola is 191cm, but has the stocky build and plays like a Fullfoward, Pavlich as well only 192cm but has the build of a KPP. Carey was 190cm, Neitz was 191cm. Darling is a big boy with the build of a KPP who plays like a KPP. He has some great attributes that should definitely translate to AFL.

I understand the concerns about height, but I don't think it should be overstated. More important is body build and how you play. For example, Brennan in 195cm, yet has a very slim build and doesn't play like a KPP. Cale Morton is 194cm and is a running midfielder. On the other hand, Brendan Fevola is 191cm, but has the stocky build and plays like a Fullfoward, Pavlich as well only 192cm but has the build of a KPP. Carey was 190cm, Neitz was 191cm. Darling is a big boy with the build of a KPP who plays like a KPP. He has some great attributes that should definitely translate to AFL.

I'd cut Healy and Hughes... leaving only Newton on the rookie list. He's not a great player, but he's a semi-solid option considering Jamar's our only fully developed ruckman and the new interchange rule only allows for 3 players on the bench. drafting 5 rookies this year is plenty, and hopefully we can unearth 1 or 2 absolute gems

I am first to admit I know next to nothing about the draft order outside the first round... But my preference in order for pick 12, atm is Lynch, Smedts and Darling. I think it's clear that the club stocked up on midfielders last year, and Prendergast has been quoted saying the club found this year that we have numerous midfield options going forward. I therefore expect a running half back or a key forward for pick 12. If we take a running half back (Smedts) at pick 12, then I think we should go tall forward pick 32 and visa versa.

That's actually an interesting point I hadn't thought about. One quality big strong 196+cm key defender and key forward is probably missing. I think we hoped Martin might play that role, and i'm sure the club has hopes for Fitzpatrick in the future... but we definitely need to keep trying to find this kind of player both forward and back

I agree. I think we've got lots of midfielders these days. Jack Viney helps bc he's a certainty to come to us soon.

Just came across a bit of a unique way of analyzing a list on bigfooty.com (I know, I know). Thought I’d give it a go. I think it might be enlightening as to our strengths and weaknesses, and how our depth stacks up in each position. This kind of analysis is particularly relevant in the off-season, because we have to decide what kind of players need to be added to our list via the national draft, so I thought I’d give it a go My best 25 BL: Bartram Frawley Garland HB: MacDonald Rivers Grimes CL: Davey Moloney Sylvia HF: Watts Petterd Dunn FL: Jurrah Green Bennell RK: Jamar, McKenzie, Scully Int: Morton, Jones, Trengove, Bruce, Wonaeamirri, Bail, Bate DEFENCE: SENIOR TALLS= Frawley, Garland, Rivers SENIOR SMALLS= Bartram, MacDonald, Grimes, Bruce DEPTH= Warnock (192cm), McNamara (190cm), Strauss (186cm) Senior Talls: 8/10 - Extremely strong starting 3 Key position defenders in Frawley, Rivers and Garland. Frawley and Garland are versatile enough to play on any kind of forward, and Rivers is capable of playing a Maxwell type role as the rock defence. Senior Smalls: 5.5/10 -Lack a bit of class with our running defenders lowers the score to 5.5/10. Bartram did a great job tagging the small forwards, but still lacks polish and tends to make some bad decisions. MacDonald proved me wrong in 2010 and is very strong in one-on-one contests, but is still a limited footballer who can have problems with decision making. Grimes and Bruce have been played at half back, but both are midfielders filling this ‘gap’ in our team. Bruce will retire in 2 years and I would like to see Grimes into the midfield asap. Depth (Talls & Smalls): 2/10 - Could potentially be a problem for us. Warnock is good back up for the key positions, but we have not seen enough of Strauss and McNamara to be confident in them become very good afl players. You’d be a brave man to depend on these 2 playing a serious role in the 2010 senior team. MIDFIELDERS: SENIOR INSIDE= Moloney, Sylvia, Scully, Jones, McKenzie SENIOR OUTSIDE= Davey, Morton, Trengove DEPTH INSIDE= Gysberts (190cm), Jetta (183cm) DEPTH OUTSIDE= Blease (186cm) Senior Inside: 8.5/10 - Has become a strength in recent seasons. Moloney and Jamar combo became a real weapon in 2010. McKenzie and Jones are young, tough inside players who are capable and willing to do the grunt work, much of which goes unnoticed. Sylvia and Scully will become our 2 massive guns in future years because they are the perfect mix of inside + outside, with a touch of class to make them stars of the afl Senior Outside: 8/10 - Trengove started his career as an outsider, but could end up inside + outside. Regardless, Davey and Trengove are 2 really sublime finishers, who will rip some teams apart in coming years. Bruce is consistent and while Morton’s output in 2010 wasn’t fantastic, he could potentially be our biggest weapon out of all our outside midfielders due to his unique mix of his engine, height and overhead marking. Overall we’re pretty strong in this area going forward Depth Inside: 5/10 - Only 5/10 because we only have 2 players we have in this category, one of which I don’t rate (Jetta). Gysberts was drafted to be a 190cm Joel Corey type midfielder, and he looks to be a great prospect going forward. Still a few year’s away from making a big impact Depth Outside: 5/10 - Blease is a really good prospect, but he’s had a really serious injury and we’re still unsure whether he’ll become the ‘break-the-lines’ player we hope he’ll be. RUCKS: SENIOR= Jamar DEPTH= Gawn, Spenser, Paul Johnson UTILITY/RUCKMAN= Martin (198cm), Fitzpatrick (200cm) Senior: 8.5/10 - We have the All Australian ruckman. Enough said. His work up forward was also outstanding at times, always creating a contest and taking some huge pack marks Depth: 3/10 - PJ is never going to be the back up ruckman we want. Spenser and Gawn are years away from playing consistent footy at afl level. There is a reason we were so keen on Hale during the trade period… will potentially be a real achillis heal in 2011. It must be said that with Gawn and Spenser there is some hope for the future, but not till at least 2012 Utility/Ruckman: 4/10 - This position is becoming an increasingly important position, and unfortunately it is not a strength. Martin’s rucking at afl level leaves much to be desires. The score is boosted by Fitzpatrick, who showed some real promise at vfl level, but is year’s away from even getting his body ready for regular afl footy FORWARD: SENIOR TALLS= Watts, Jurrah, Bate SENIOR MEDIUM= Dunn, Pettard, Green, Bennell, Bail SENIOR SMALL= Wonaeamirri DEPTH= Maric (183cm), Tapscott (186cm) Senior talls: 7.5/10 - I’m based my score largely on potential. Could be a real strength in future years, but we do appear to lack a really big strong 196+ style forward Senior medium: 9/10 - A real strength, all players difficult to match up on. Capable of marking and equally good once the ball hits the ground. Some great talent there Senior smalls: 5/10 - Wona is a pretty good prospect, but I’m tempted to put him as a medium forward, bc that’s really how he plays. Doesn’t kick many genuine crumbing goals front and centre. Depth: 3/10 - Only 2 in the depth, so a little thin. But, with 9 really talented forwards in the senior team, depth is not as important as it is in the mids and defender. Tapscott a great prospect who will make an impact next year, but Maric looks like a bit of a flop ANALYSIS - I identify our needs as follows: o Running/small defenders o Back up ruck/ Utility ruck o Small genuine crumbing forward o Big strong 196+cm full forward o We could use maybe 1-2 more midfielders to add some more depth in the midfield - For all positions, we have some genuine top-end talent… but we are struggling for depth almost all over the park. We will struggle if we have many injuries next season. If we stay healthy, and add another 3-4 quality draftees, we are really nicely set for the future. Thoughts…?

spot on

I think Prendergast has explained his position on best available pretty clearly. They rate all players in the draft, based on everything (skill, character, how they'd fit in the team etc) If at pick 12, there is one player clearly superior to the other, they will pick the superior player. If at pick 12, there are 2 players Prenders rates equally highly, then he will tend towards the one that fulfils the greatest need. It is a qualified best available.

I think he's a real risk, but perhaps a risk worth taking. Pick 12 might be about right, bc teams in the top 10 might not be willing to risk it, since there are much safer options in the top end talent. He could end up the next Pav, or alternatively he could be the next Jay Neagle with the attitude of Lawrence Angwin. This from footydraft.com website... Club: West Perth (WAFL) Height: 190cm Weight: 86kg Date Of Birth: 2.10.1992 Position: Key/3rd Tall Forward Strengths: - Outstanding contested ball winning skills (includes hard ball gets, contested marks and free kicks for) - Commanding on-field physical presence - Excellent physicality and aggressive approach to the game - Outstanding defensive pressure, work-rate and tackling strength - Decent general field kicking with a thumping right foot kick and a range of upto 60m - Good ball use with his hands ? shows elements of creativity, vision and good timing to release players effectively - Good general smarts and decision making Weaknesses: - Lacks height for his natural position as a key forward (last measured at 190cm – beginning of this season) most key defenders that have been drafted in the last decade are 192-196cm Jack was beaten aerially on a number of occasions by Lucas Cook (194cm), Matthew Watson (Vic Metro 194cm) and Sebastian Tape (SA – 189cm) at 2010 AFL U18 Championships Bio: Jack Darling was one of the most impressive players of the 2008 AFL U16 Championships and the highest ranked player based on Champion Data scores. His outstanding form and potential earnt him an AFL-AIS Scholarship. He had a similar outstanding AFL U18 Championships in 2009, as a 17 year old that was ineligible to be drafted, averaging 13 disposals, 5 marks, 5 tackles and 3 goals per game from 5 games and winning a spot in the U18 All-Australian team as centre half forward . In the second half of the season he played 6 games at senior level in the WAFL and impressed averaging 10 disposals, 3 marks and 2 goals from 6 games including a 6 goal haul against East Fremantle in his second game. In September 2009 it was reported that Jack was involved in an off-field incident described by media outlets as a ?drunken sex romp? during a school camp and subsequently expelled from Perth private school, Sacred Heart College. Darling was put behind the eight ball entering 2010 with limited pre-season preparation after having his ankle operated on in the off-season. His impact at the 2010 AFL U18 Championships raised some concern for some recruiters, not matching the expectations based on his performances of previous years and doubts particularly creeping up about his lack of height for a key position prospect, still being listed in the record at 190cm. At WAFL level he averaged 14 disposals, 5 marks and 1 goal from 12 games. In September 2010 it was reported he fractured his skull and suffered bruising to the brain, after being king hit leaving a Subiaco hotel.?

A player in contract can still be traded, and even delisted (though their contract will have to be paid out). This has happened as recently as Cheney this year and Newton and Meesan last year. At this point in time, I have made a category of who i believe are 'depth' players. My hope is that eventually all these players will be moved on, to be replaced by new draftees. - Martin - PJ - Maric - Jetta - McNamara - Warnock I think PJ & McNamara could be delisted as early as this season. Martin, Maric and Jetta are in big trouble unless they show big improvement during 2011. Warnock will probably be trade bait next season if he once again ends up playing 10+ games in the vfl.

bc he is a 185cm half forward, in direct competition with Pettard, Tapscott, Green, Dunn, and even sort of in competition Sylvia, Wona and Jurrah... We are packed with forward line talent... we are probably just missing 1 sort of forward, which is a really good 195cm+ big strong bodied, contested marking forward

Agree with all except highly doubt Wona would be delisted and NO WAY Bennel will be delisted the club rates him as one of our most promising youngsters, just listen to the way schwab goes on about him

I'm really excited about Jack. Getting ourselves a gun young midfielder in 2 years time who hopefully can make an impact straight away will be a HUGE advantage if we're already playing finals at that stage Scully, Trengove, Viney, Grimes, Gysberts the fab 5. Davey, Sylvia and Moloney the 2nd stringers Todd has a very good reputation, hopefully he does a good job at the demons

Agreed. Good get by the demons. I'm happy we're increasing our coaching and development staff. I would suggest that a team like Collingwood would have double the amount of coaches, development and recruiting staff than we had a couple of years ago. The more FD spending we do, we are giving our team the best possible chance to make us proud and win a premiership