sylvinator

To win a premiership we'll need 3 players to be considered in the top 10 in the entire league for that season + probably another 5 players on top of those 3 to be considered in the top 50 in the afl

I know he doesn't look big in the 'glamour muscles', but that is a good thing! Sylvia came to the club with huge biceps, but didn't have a strong core. So despite appearing strong, he spent the first 4 years of his career sustaining injuries. Shane Watson is another famous example of a guy who appeared strong in the 'glamour muscles' but actually wasn't strong where it mattered. Morton is now above 90kg, and most of that is added muscle in the core and legs. That is a really great achievement and is really good for his development. I think the aim over the next 12-24 months will be to inch towards 100kg, which will now be very achieveable considering the enourmous room for improvement in building muscles in the arms, shoulders and chest. Morton came to the club as a stick insect with enourmous upside. The prospect of a 100 gamer, finely tuned 100kg 23 year old Morton, with outstanding running ability and overhead marking is super exciting. Adam Goodes anyone?

I'm not too upset that 10 players are not fit enough to play the intra-club game 2 months out from the start of the season proper. Especially considering the guys who aren't playing. Warnock, Gysberts, Tapscott, Davis, Campbell and Fitzpatrick are not in our best 22. I want all of them to get back playing and improving at vfl level asap, but it really doesn't impact too heavily of round 1. Gysberts is probably the best of that lot and he's recovering from a soft-tissue injury so he should easily be fit by the nab cup. Only 4 players are not playing intra-club game from our best 22- Jones, Green, Frawley, Wonaeamirri. Wona is not injured, he just needs to catch up on fitness after some family tragedy over the summer. Green and Jones should easily be right for nab cup as far as i understand. Only Frawley is in doubt for round 1, and he should play by round 3. Of those not playing, only Green and Frawley are genuinely critical players to our team and structures. The real issue is going to be keeping the rest of the squad fit before round 1. Last year we lost Morton, Sylvia and Jurrah just before round 1, and it really impacted us. Hoping for more luck this time around

I bloody hope he didn't do this injury being silly trying to lift too much weight on the bench press. That would be a needless injury

Triple M twitter- "Melbourne suffers massive blow with All-Australian defender James Frawley ruled out for up to three months with pectoral muscle injury." 6 minutes ago. The injury occured on 20/1/11, our first match is 27/3/11. That's 66 days or more than 9.5 weeks. Read in conjunction with Frawley's twitter- "Shouldn't be too bad though hopefully only a few weeks"- and I'm hoping that means he only misses the first 2-3 weeks of the season, 4-5 at most. At best it sounds like he could potentially be pushing for near the start of the season. This does SUCK, but it could be a lot worse (this could have happened on the eve of round 1).

only 6/9 have been done so far... but an update - Players in the rehab group= Davey, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Jetta - Players who 'need to get their bodies right'= Gysberts, Howe, Robbie Campbell - Players who 'need to adjust to the rigours of afl training'= pretty much every first year player Quite a few players not fit-n-firing, but i'm sure a lot of players who are in the rehab group pre-christmas will start to move into the main group post christmas with the season approaching. It is also somewhat comforting to know that only really Davey from those mentioned above are in our best 22. Fitzpatrcik, Gawn, Jetta, Gysberts and the whole first-year group of draft picks and rookie picks would probably be expecting to spend the first few games at vfl level anyways.

Just a point on StKilda. Everyone is pointing to them as evidence of a team who were hyped up years ago, but never achieved success. True... they haven't won a flag. BUT... 2010: StKilda came a very close 2nd. Drew the first grand final and had the match gone for an extra 3 minutes, they surely would have won 2009: Stkilda came a very close 2nd. Lost the grand final to Geelong by 12 points. With a bit of luck they could easily have won that game. Also won the minor premiership. 2008: Stkilda came 3rd. Stkilda lost to the eventual premiers Hawthorn in the preliminary final. Won the NAB pre-season cup as well. 2007: a one-off poor season finishing 9th. An aberration. 2006: Stkilda came 6th, losing to a Mclean-led Demons. Also won the NAB pre-season cup. 2005: Stkilda came 3rd. Once again lost to the eventual premiers Sydney in the preliminary final 2004: Stkilda came 3rd. Once again lost to the eventual premiers Port Adelaide in the preliminary final In 2011 StKilda should have another huge push at a premiership. Yes, StKilda have NOT won a premiership. This is their failure. And NO, I would not be satisfied if we had a run of success without the ultimate success of a premiership. But no-one can doubt StKilda have had a tremendous run. Between 2000-2004, through drafting, they set themselves for a HUGE run at a flag. They put themselves in the best possible position to win one. Many would argue, myself included, that they have been desperately unlucky not to win a flag in the past 7 years. Were a touch of luck, they could have 2 flags to their name. And they did this all during an era where Geelong compiled one of the best teams in recent history, with up to 11 All-Australian players in Geelong's starting 22. My point is that what we are trying to do is set ourselves up for 8-9 years at the top, making grand-finals, preliminary finals each year and, of course, a premiership. StKilda will achieve their 8 years at the top, but sadly will probably never achieve the flag they were chasing. But, I think our list runs a lot deeper than StKilda and it will put us in a better position to win a flag when our time comes. The point of my OP was to suggest that we are very nicely compiling our list to grow and mature together, so that we may peak and have a period of long and sustained success. Relatively similar to StKilda's period of success, except that we will take our opportunities and hopefully win 2-3 premierships!

The following is based on what our list should look like during the period from 2013-2015, inclusive. I'm concentrating on players who are currently in our best 22, or realistically could be by 2013 (NB: players not included from our current-day list are Warnock, Martin, Maric, Jetta bc I personally don't see them on our list in 2013, and i've included Viney) 1. Players most likely on the decline: Green 2. Players who'll probably be holding their current output levels: Rivers, J.Macdonald, Moloney, Davey, Jamar, Dunn, Jones, Bate, Bartram, Sylvia (with hopefully more consistency) 3. Players who should be twice the players they are now with 40+ games and 2 more pre-seasons: Frawley, Morton, Garland, Grimes, Watts, Petterd, Jurrah, Bennel, Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Bail, Wonaeamirri 4. Virtually untried players who might not all make it, but could all be HUGE improvers by 2013: Tapscott, Blease, Gysberts, Cook, Howe, Spenser, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Strauss, Davis, McDonald, Viney Summery: - 35/36 (98%) players should still be playing, at the very least, at their current standards - 24/36 (67%) players should see enourmous improvement by 2013 (Category 3 and 4) - The vast majority of our most talented players are in category 3. They are all in our best 22, and should all be big improvers by 2013. They comprise of 13/36 (35%) of our list! - Of the players in category 4, those virtually untried, 5 are first rounder picks, and the statistics suggest that of those 12, considering where they were drafted, at least 5 should become very good players. I'm not 100% sure what can be taken out of this, but i'd suggest that it suggests that we are a team massively on the rise, who should peak in 2-3 years, and most importantly, will not be losing any structurely critical players in the foreseeable future. In fact, considering all the front-ended contracts, we should be able to trade in one very talented player from another club. Good times ahead?

Love the optimism, but with all due respect to Hutchy, people who know our list intimately know those expectations are unrealistic for 2011, but may be realistic 2012 or 2013 onwards. Next year we have the following players in our best 22 who have 50 games or less experience: Bail, Garland, Grimes, Morton, Bennel, Jurrah, McKenzie, Petterd, Scully, Trengove, Watts, Wonaeamirri. That's 11 of our best 22. Outside of our best 22, only Bate and J.MacDonald have > 50 games experience. The remaining 15 others all have less than 50 games, and are almost all less than 21 years old! Do we have the talent on our list? Yes, most certainly. Do they have the afl-level bodies and experience required to come top 4 in 2011? Probably not. Add 40 games and 2 more pre-seasons and we'll be rock-n-rolling!

FB: Bartram Frawley Garland HB: Bail Rivers Grimes M: Morton Moloney Davey HF: Watts Petterd Dunn FF: Jurrah Green Bennel R: Jamar Sylvia Scully Int: Jones, Trengove, McKenzie. Sub: Wona Depth: J. Macdonald, Bate, Warnock, Martin, Spenser, Maric, Jetta Young Guns: Tapscott, Blease, Gysberts, Strauss, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Cook, Howe, Davis, McDonald Rookies: Newton, Nicholson, Evans, Campbell. Lawrence, Johnston, McNamara - A pretty strong 22, with 7 guys who should be able to come in to the 22 as depth and fill a role competently. - Except for Frawley, our spine does look pretty weak. But I guess that's why we draft Watts, Cook, Howe, Davis etc. - Of those depth players outside the 22, J. MacDonald and Bate were the most unlucky. I expect both to play plenty of senior footy next year. Warnock, Martin and Jetta are pure depth who you wouldn't have in the team except for injuries. I'm still willing to give Spenser and Maric a second chance after hearing rumours they are both having outstanding pre-seasons so far, but they probably won't play much senior footy. - The thing to really get excited about is the 10 young guns who are not currently in our best 22, but who will all be competing for spots as they develop. Included in those 10 youngsters are 5 first rounders!!! - Of those young guns, I expect Gysberts, Blease and Howe to play a few senior games next season. Tapscott and Strauss too if they can get their bodies right. The rest will probably be developing in vfl. Surely this is a ripper best 22!?

Take it as a grain of salt, but check out some of Brad Green's comments in "DT TALK 2011: PRESEASON EPISODE 1", that is found on this website. http://dreamteamtalk.com/

It wasn't a great season by Cale. In 2008 and 2009, he was handed games on a platter just to get experience into him. In 2010 he had to earn his games. Still... Cale did get some positives to come out of the season. 1. He confirmed that he finished the season 7+ kg heavier than he started. He is currently 90kg. If he can get to 95+kg by the end of 2011, that will just about be his optimal playing weight. He really had broadened his shoulders/chest and no longer looks anorexic. Could still use some muscle in his legs and biceps. 2. In his final 4-5 games I noticed a distinct improvement in his overhead and contested marking. At 195cm now, with long arms, there is no reason why he can't make overhead marking a real weapon, especially up forward 3. He added another 10 games of experience, getting him up to 50 afl games. By the end of 2011 he should be up to 70, and ready to enter the next stage of his career, no longer as a young experienced player. He also got some great experience playing against some outstanding afl player (Goodes etc). We all know he can run and accumulate the ball. He's tall and can mark. I'm confident that when he continues to build his body and as his confidence grows he'll get even better. I'm expecting a bit of a break out season next year, but i reckon he'll go bang in 2012

The only players out of contract at the end of 2011 that the club would be absolutely desperate to sign up would be Scully and Sylvia. We have the cash to adequately compensate both of them, and I hope we get Scully on a 4 year Frawley-esk contract. None of the others would really hurt the team long term if we got compensation for them. Lots of players coming out of contract at the end of 2012, but the priorities for early contract extensions are limited to Jurrah, Garland and Trengove. Imo, if we sign up those 5 guys (Scully, Sylvia, Jurrah, Garland and Trengove), with Davey, Grimes, Watts and Frawley already out of GWS reach, our nucleus of most important players will have been protected. Obviously I wouldn't want to lose a guy like Morton or Pettard, but being cold and realistic, they wouldn't do any long term damage to the direction of our list. See this bigfooty thread to see if you agree: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=767361

Excellent post. Best post i've read from Nasher. Agree with every point. Absolutely no chance of Scully leaving, makes no sense from any perspective.

Very good effort. Being free of debt and the interest associated with it is a huge ease on the financial health of our club. It does still appear clear that we continue to rely on MCC, the extra AFL money and other grants to stay profitable. Not to mention the debt demolition and the HUGE help that is caused by the extra $1m received p.a. with the new stadium deal. However we are well on our way. Hopefully we continue to get all the grants that were mentioned above for the next few year so that can move from 'staying afloat' stage, into becoming a completely financially self-sufficient club. I like the fact that the club has recognised the need to increase our Net Assets moving forward.

Happy Happy Joy Joy

Agree to disagree i guess. Firstly, being a Bruce-style Mr Fix it is NOT, as I assume your point is, using Garland is a more valuable way. In fact, it is using his skills and talents in a way that is less valuable to the team. Secondly, I disagree with any suggestion that Garland playing as a key back is in any way 'wasting' him in a negative role. The new-age key defender can stop their opponent, peal off when appropriate, attack at the right times, and can be an extremely valuable commodity to any team. Think Brian Lake, Harry Taylor, Craig Bolten (in his prime) etc. We are extremely fortunate to have 2 players (Frawley and Garland) who can play that role excellently. We should feel privileged, rather than trying to turn him into some Mr Fix it.

Wow i couldn't disagree more. The thing I love most about our defence is that we have 2 tall, exceptionally quick, versatile, highly skilled key backs who, most importantly, invariably seem to have a nack for getting in a spoil and preventing a mark in the forward 50. The two men, Frawley and Garland, will be the cornerstone of our defence for the next 10 years. The other defensive spots can be slotted in around them, because we know that Chip and Garland are capable of taking on, beating, and rebounding against the best forwards in the league. Garland's exceptional attribute is his ability to almost always spoil his opponent through his speed, long arms, positioning and reading of the play. I would be truly disappointed if we broke up this tandem. The great thing is that no matter if the opposition's 2 best forwards are small (Betts and Yarran) or tall (Franklin and Roughead), the same two blokes can take on and beat them!

Jones is probably a great leader around the club, a relentless trainer, always upbeat and enthusiastic, someone the guys look up to. He has the respect of the players and it can only be good for him and the club to be part of the leadership group. Sylvia I'm happy he isn't part of the leadership group. He seems like the kind of player that just needs to be concerned with getting himself (his mindset and body) right, and isn't yet at the stage that he can constantly be thinking of looking after others. After years of excessive partying and getting down during long-term injuries, he is only just starting to build respect from the player group. In 1-2 years, if he keeps it all up, I have no doubt he'll come into the leadership group. For now he just needs to concentrate of continuing to turn his career around! The two i'm disappointed of missing out is Jamar and, to a lesser extent, Frawley. Jamar has been very open about wanting to be a leader. BUT, the leadership group is player driven, so definitely have to respect the votes of the playing group. For what it's worth, perhaps Jamar has only had 1 truely outstanding season, and probably needs 1-2 seasons of really consistant performances to be really considered an on-field leader. Frawley is definitely an on-field leader in the sense that he's definitely in our top 5 best players at the club. But from afar, but it appears at this stage of his career (unlike a Grimes or a Scully) he's content with just being one of the boys, rather than taking a really serious off-field leadership role. Again, maybe in a year or two

I think there will be just a little bit more short term pain, i'm personally hoping for 7th-10th, with 10 wins. it Our midfield is our weakest division at the moment (though should soon become a strength), and we can't underestimate the loss of 2 of our best runners in McDonald and Bruce. It means that next year, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts etc will have plenty of time on-ball, plenty of responsibility, which will be good long term but realistically they are not quite ready to lead a midfield division. Watts, Scully, Trengove, Grimes, Jurrah, Tapscott, Gysberts, Morton etc are just plain inexperienced. Not enough games under their belt just yet. I'm expecting a huge break out season in 2012, I think it's just a little to early to be expecting it in 2011. It will still be a really enjoyable year. Can't wait to see all our youngsters edge towards 50-100 games

I am not worried about Watts. I do, however, think he's the type of footballer who will take 3-5 years to realise what it takes to become an elite footballer. Very much similar to Colin Sylvia. Like Sylvia, Watts has a huge amount of natural talent, and from afar it seems a little like he thinks he can just rely on his natural talent. I've also heard from several sources that Watts loves partying a lot, very simlar to Sylvia in the early days. We all know how long it took before Sylvia realised he really had to nuckle down if he was to become a star. The positive however, is that Sylvia had some horrendous injuries early in his career, which delayed his breakout season, while Watts has not had the same injuries to contend with, touch wood. I think everyone should just accept that not every footballer is going to be Tom Scully, who has been doing push ups since he was a fetus and doesn't drink alcohol such is his drive. Hopefully, Watts will start 2012, ready to break out, with 40 games under his belt. If it takes him until the end of 2012 to realise what it takes, he'll have 60 games under his belt and be ready to explode. Watts is still 19 years old, has time on his side, improved dramatically in the second half of the year and will keep improving with every game he plays. He has deficiencies, but he'll work on them over the years and KPP take time. Watts' upside is enourmous, his natural talent is undoubted, and he is one of only 3-4 footballers on our list who have the potential to one day be a top 5 in the afl level player.

I was also on the train this morning (around 8am) and I saw the boys training.

Interesting that last year we drafted 1 pure ruckman (Gawn) and 1 versatile tall (Fitzpatrick) and this year we drafted 1 pure ruckman (Campbell) and 1 versatile tall (McDonald). The combination of 1 pure ruckman and 1 versatile tall is where the trend is headed. We've stocked up on 4 rucks in the past 2 years, so we've planned for the future and we should be right from 2012 onwards. We do, however, have problems with the back up ruck position for 2011. That's the only reason we went for Hale. Hale being a pretty pathetic player (i'm thankful we didn't get him), he only filled a very short term need in the side.

I agree, that is a problem, since our only 2 genuine options are pretty dump, in Martin and Newton. There results in two options for next season that I can see: 1. Jamar once again will play many games as the only ruckman (95% game time in the ruck), and relieved for 2 minutes here or there by Dunn or Sylvia. 2. It also means there is a distinct possibility that Martin and Newton will get games next year out of necessity. HOWEVER, this is far from ideale, and we really do need a better back-up option moving from from 2012 (hence why we went after Hale). BUT, the good news is that we have been planning! We drafted Fitzpatrick last year and McDonald this year. Both these players are versatile talls, who will have the adaptability to play forward (or even defence), and relieve in the ruck. Hopefully one of these guys will be ready to step up in 2012. Whatever happens, I am pretty certain that the new substitute rule has spelled the death of the 2nd genuine ruckman. There is no way you can justify having Jamar and Spenser in the starting team, both genuine ruckman, because it leaves you with only 2 running interchange players. The only way you could get Jamar and Spenser in the same team is if Jamar started playing 50%+ time in the forward line, which imo would be absolutely silly. The guy has just played his first All Australian season, which he did playing as a pure ruckman, and the very next season shift his position and role entirely. God I hope not.

People should remember that the new substitute role has undoubtably spelled the death of the second ruckman, You can't have 2 big lumbering ruckman, when one sits a lot on the bench, leaving only 2 players to rotate. Until they get rid of the rule, it will be one genuine ruckman + one mobile tall (Leigh Brown style). I will be shocked to see Jamar ever picked alongside Gawn, Campbell or Spenser next year.