sylvinator

I think everyone should be prepared to be somewhat disappointed immediately after the draft, when we realise we didn't pick the guy rated highly in the media, but it shouldn't be soon after that when everyone calms down and realises that Barry actually watches hundreds of hours of underage footy and knows what he's talking about... so the guy he picks is probably a future gem

Steven Hill at 31= just bc professor quigley doesn't rate him, doesn't mean he's isn't awesome

Jamar is 198cm. 200cm is definitely tall enough to ruck if he's good enough

Heppel would be absolutely ideale. Fills a need, is a top talent, has great kicking skills. Get him!

I really enjoyed Howe's youtube. Could be a bit of a live wire forward. Doesn't fill a specific need, but love exciting players. I'm definitely not opposed to Gorringe at pick 12. I think he could be best available AND fill a need. If Gold Coast didn't have 4-5 ruckman, Gorringe would probably go pick 7 or 9. With the new interchange rule, it is very unlikely a team will ever play 2 true ruckman. Gorringe has the ability to go forward and kick goals, which could see him filling a double need- a back up ruckman + a tall forward Gorringe looks a real class ruckman and could be the man to take over in 3-4 years.

I agree generally with E25 in this thread (though I don't agree he's the worst user of the footy on our entire list, that's a bit of hyperbole). Bartram often lets himself down in skill execution, decision making and creativity. HOWEVER, he improved vastly this season for one reason only. There appears to have been a very clear message from the coaches instructing Bartram to take the sensible first option. Bartram used to try to hit targets that he simply wasn't capable of hitting. This year he generally took the sensible option, immediately passing it on to a player in a better position than him. Bartram now plays within his limits and it has seen him improve as a player. He has accepted his limitations and embraced his strengths. Bartram's role should never be to thread a beautiful 40m pass through the corridor, pinpointing a leading player who is between 3 opposition players. That can be left to Davey, Sylvia and Trengove. I have a lot of time for Bartram. He has some outstanding attributes, including work ethic, strength, speed, endurance and tackling. As long as he plays within his limitations, i will keep a spot in my best 21 for him.

I agree. The good thing is that at least 1-2 of those look like being available at our pick. I'd love Heppell, he's the prototype half back flanker that we need who, like Grimes, could one day move into the midfield. 75m player (runs 15m with the ball, kicks it 60m). Never thought he'd be available at our pick though

I'm on holidays after finishing my law exams for another year, so thought i'd give a phantom draft a go, and see how my attempt compares to the real thing. I'd like to emphasise that my knowledge on the draftees is limited to watching the national championships, all the youtube vids and reading articles and profiles about the various potential picks on afl.com.au and bigfooty.com. I have also been privy to several rumours as to who certain teams are interested in, but I have no first hand sources. DISCLAIMER: I'm sure it will work out differently on the day, I DO NOT claim to be an expert, and i'm purely doing this for a bit of fun. For the record, imo the first 7 picks are pretty much set, though the order might change slightly. Sylvinator's Phantom Draft 1. Gold Coast – David Swallow Will be a premier player at afl level by the time he's 20. 2. Gold Coast – Sam Day In some ways I see his progression as a little bit similar to Jack Watts. Like Jack he burst onto the scene as an ultra athletic player who excelled in other sports before concentrating on football only from under 16s onwards. Like Watts, i believe Day will take 2-3 seasons before he's consistently impacting on matches. BUT in the way they play, Day is definitely a different player to Watts. Capable of towering pack marks, and goals from 60m out, he could be the next big thing. Would have gone number 1 over Watts had they been in the same draft imo. 3. Gold Coast – Harley Bennell Plays a really exciting and classy game. If he can play consistently and with constant intensity, he has the skills to be a star 4. West Coast – Andrew Gaff I believe WetToast will snap up Gaff, who is just all class. His kicking is a little underrated, I believe he'll be a big step up in skill over WetToast's current crop on midfielders. Will be a great afl player, very safe to say he'll play 150+ games. 5. Brisbane – Jared Polec The guy plays a really all round game, he'll be a really great midfielder. What I like most about Polec is his terrific ability to regularly find targets inside forward 50, obviously a valuable skill at afl level. Polec and Rich together will be extremely dangerous combo for the lions and the lion's forwards will be getting great service for years to come 6. Richmond – Dyson Heppell Some concerns about his groins might see him slide to Essendon or Gold Coast, but Richmond could really use any player of his quality. Great hands, great kick. Will start his career at half back giving the Tigers one of the best half back lines in the league (Heppell, Newman, Delideo, Connors) and all 4 of those boys capable of playing midfield 7. Gold Coast- Josh Caddy Another really high quality midfielder, but Caddy has a nice inside game which sets him apart from some other midfielders. Gold Coast are going to be bloody incredible in a few years. 8. Essendon - Shaun Atley Hirdy went out personally to interview Atley only 3-4 days ago, Hird is a huge fan and if he's available I believe bombers will select him. Another one of those players who has the perfect combinations- has pace + endurance, and can play outside + inside and get his own ball 9. Gold Coast- Tom Lynch Huge upside means Gold Coast would just be silly not to take him at one of 9, 10 or 11. 199cm, super agile, strong mark. He's very raw and won't be consistent at afl level for at least 3 years, but could be an awesome player. His 20m sprint time was really really bad, but I don't think that will scare off Gold Coast enough not to take him at 9 10. Gold Coast – Reece Conca There will be at least 1-2 bolters taken at 9,10 or 11, no idea who, but it could very well be this bloke. I see him as a little similar to Gysberts, taken at 11 last year, ONLY in the sense that Conca doesn't have any attributes that leap out at you and say WOW, but rather does everything well and is a really nice midfield option 11. Gold Coast – Daniel Gorringe I was tempted to let Gorringe slide even further, which he will if Gold Coast don't take him. Is the best ruck option in the draft, the only reason he might slide is because Gold Coast already have 3 awesome teenage ruck options on their list, so might not see the ruck position as a desperate need and might take a couple of ruckman later in the draft. Pick 11 is a valuable pick, but Gorringe is probably worth it, because he will be a great ruckman. Worst comes to worst, ruckman always have great trade value, so if GC have 4 awesome rucks in 3-4 years they will simply trade one of them. 12. Melbourne – Jack Darling Melbourne is a really hard one to pick. I personally believe it could be a half backer (Smedts, Jacobs or even Brodie Smith, whose more a midfielder), but Darling is too good a proposition to pass up at 12. At best, he could play 15+ senior games next year, since he's physically developed. What I like most about him is that he plays with an intensity and aggression that Matthew Bate lacks, and takes pride in chasing and tackling once the ball hits the ground. He is a good kick and mark, and I think the queries about his height are a little overrated- he may be 191cm (2-3cm off perfect key position height), but he plays like a key position forward and he has the body of a key position forward. You'd hope that the off-field mistakes he mad as a school kid will be more controlled once he's in a professional environment. I love the idea of a forward line of Watts, Jurrah, Darling, Pettard, Green, Wona and Bennel. All so different and so talented. 13. Gold Coast – Billy Smedts A really versatile and all round player. Good height and skills, will play mostly on the flanks to begin with. 14. Adelaide – Jayden Pitt Adelaide have proven in the past they are willing to pass up Sout Australian talent if there is a better player available. I think they'll go for Pitt over Smith or McCartney. Pitt's potential is huge, but his performances haven't been amazing to date. 15. Geelong – Isaac Smith Geelong are supposed to be huge into him and it makes sense. He's a little bit older so can play round 1 next year, which Geelong want since they are still challenging. He has speed which Geelong really lacked in September this year. Makes sense. 16. Port Adelaide- Brodie Smith Port's young brigade are a little underrated, but I think they need a couple of really quality midfielders to help out Hartlett, Boak and Pearce in the future. Smith is South Australian which helps and he's a damn good player. 17. North Melbourne – Patt McCartney I know they have Grima and Thompson, but I think they could really set up their defence with McCartney, who many rate a little higher than 17. Great height and scope for improvement, probably the best upside of any key defender in the draft 18. Carlton – Seb Tape Best available defender, so can't see Carlton passing him up. Could be a bit of a steal at 18. 19. Hawthorn – Matthew Watson 3 defenders drafted in a row (McCartney, Tape now Watson), but Hawthorn have really missed Trent Croad since he retired, and Watson is a really really good option, with his height and kicking skills. Stratton and Gibson and co should be playing more half back than key position, so Watson will release them a little. 20. Fremantle – Ben Jacobs Imo Freo would like to move Suban (and Hill) further into the midfield. With Hayden aging, they could use a replacement half back option and Jacobs is a great get at this pick. Freo don't seem to be overly worried by go-home factor and will go best available. 21. Sydney – Dion Prestia Sydney have proven in the past they aren't perturbed by players who don't fit the standard shape and size. Prestia will make a real impact at afl level and Sydney seems a good option for him. 22. Bulldogs – Mitch Wallis Father-Son I think i'll stop there, because i'm really stretching it now and it would really be guess-work from pick 22 onwards. There are about 20+ players from pick 22 onwards who are all really even and could really go anywhere. Lamb and Harper were close to my top 22, but players of their 'type' has been known to slide a little I guess we'll see how accurate I am on Thursday, but wanted to bring this out before Daffey's phantom draft. Any thoughts?

I'm glad you agree with me. Yes, they both will end up potentially playing in the defensive half of the ground, but in completely different roles. Bartram a defensive stopper role, Bail a rebounding drive-out-of-defence role. Therefore there is no risk of Bail usurping Bartram's role. Do you think the role that Gilbee plays is the same Dylan Addison? Does Nick Malceski plays the same role as Paul Bevan.

No, actually Kieran Harper is a work in progress, much more a risky pick than Darling imo. Jack Darling could probably play 22 senior games next year if his attitude permits. The risks involved seem to be related to off-field indiscretions. Imo he could be a risk worth taking, the idea of Watts, Jurrah, Darling, Green and Pettard sounds dangerous!

I hope not. Bartram played as a defensive 'stopper' small defender for most of this year, and it was a position he played successfully. Bartram can play that position well because he has great physical attributes (above average speed, endurance and strength), but he is limited in his skill execution, decision making and creativity. Bail also has elite physical attributes, however I see Bail as being a much more creative player who can provide drive as a dashing flanker/wingman. I would like to see Bail used more as an attacking weapon than a defensive stopper.

I've been swaying back and forth, but I still think we'll go Tom Lynch or Jack Darling if either is available (Darling being most likely). Darling is a ready made player, 191cm strong forward, completely different to our other types of forward, and would complement Watts, Jurrah, Pettard and Green very nicely. I also like the way he is very good with forward pressure, which makes him potentially a better prospect than Bate or Newton who just give up once the ball hits the deck. Darling really would complete our forward line. If those 2 are gone, we should pick a half back flanker- Smedts, Smith, Jacobs, Pitt all good options. With Bruce gone, there is a definite hole there, and 2 holes once Grimes moves to the midfield. We are trying to fill that gap with players like Grimes, Bail, Bennel and Morton, but I think those guys are suited best elsewhere. I still don't think picking up a genuine midfielder like Caddy, Conca or Polec are out of the question if they last to our pick. can never have enough great midfield options

Probably right. hard to know the thought process of recruiters unless you're at the table making the decisions

it is, but imo it happens, Prospects with the talent to be top 10 picks slide 4-5 spots, and outside prospects get picked earlier than their talent would suggest, ceteris paribus. For example, if Geelong fall in love with Isaac Smith, but are concerned he won't be available by 27, they might pick him at 15. I think another example was Robbie Tarrant being picked at pick 16 by North a few years ago. Maybe even Gysberts comes into that category, because we were worried he wouldn't last to pick 18. Conversely, the first round in this draft might be very needs specific, especially since the Gold Coast are building a list from scratch and need certain positions filled. Certain needs based picks could result in guys rated top 10 in terms of talent, slipping down 4-5 spots in the draft order. For example, I think Cyril Rioli is a good example of that.

It really sucks that GC is coming in this year and not next, because if it were next year the timing of our rebuild would have been perfect. In a regular draft we'd have pick 5 this year! That would give us one of Heppel, Polec or Gaff. All 3 of those guys are certain gun 150+ game players imo. Unfortunately, imo this draft has about 8-9 top echelon quality players (Swallow, Day, Bennel, Gaff, Heppel, Polec, Gorringe, Atley and Lynch), which means unless one slips through we'll have to settle with a slightly less certain prospect (Darling, Smedts, Heppel, McCarthy). We could very well still get ourselves a gem, but at pick 12 it is much less certain than pick 5

I would not be totally disappointed if we selected Watson, since I believe he will become a very good key position defender at AFL level. I do think we have more pressing concerns elsewhere, namely a key forward and a running rebounding defender. BUT, if we did pick up Watson, then it would really set up our defensive structure for the next 10 years. Warnock is clearly on the outer, and he is only depth these days anyways. River is a great leader in defence, but he's 27 and won't be around forever. Also, the way his body has taken a battering over the years i can't see him lasting well past 30. In 3 years time, if we had 3 key defenders on our list in Frawley, Garland and Watson, we'd be very comfortable with our defence.

As supporters, we really have to stop romanticising the Daniher era and the players involved. Yes, we made a few final series, however we were NEVER genuine premiership contenders. The entire previous decade for me is characterised by 'so close yet so far'. We were around 5th-8th mark, but never genuine chances for glory. We had players who were very good but not quite stars (Yze, White, Robbo, Bruce). We were inconsistent and we weren't ruthless. I want this new era to be different. I don't want to be near to the mark, I want to be going for premierships. I don't want our young up-n-comers to become solid players, I want them to become stars and regular All-Australians. I want to see Sheehan's top 50 (or any equivalent) and see 3-4 names in the top 12 players in the entire AFL! We've had nearly 50 years of failure. It's time to stop toffing around. It's time to become focused, ruthless and obsessive.

Firstly, you should never trade for or draft a player that you don't believe will be in the best 22 (if it's an 18 yr old, you hope in the future they'll be a best 22 player). Neagle and Anthony are both average players who would not be in our best 22. Secondly, our forward line doesn't need extra depth. We only lack one very specific kind of forward, the 196cm+ big-bodied crash-packing forward. We will not find this in Neagle and Anthony. It's a myth that we don't have enough forwards... Green, Jurrah, Watts, Pettard, Dunn, Bate, Sylvia, Wona, Bennel, Tapscott, Maric, Fitzpatrick (+ Davey, Jetta etc) say hi.

Bruce is being portrayed very badly in my eyes from all of this. He was one of the best paid players at our club the last 6-7 years, WELL over his true value. Of all playeres, he's been rewarded the best in a financial sense. And then to use money as an excuse for a lack of respect by the club. Bruce has held the club hostage every time he has come out of contract. It happened 4 years ago when he threatened to leave, and it happened this time. He does not bleed for any club, he bleeds for his hip-pocket. At the end of the day, he's 31, isn't a particularly influential player in our team, and will decline very quickly in the next 12-24 months as he gets into his 30s. I'm over him already.

I think that in a few years we're going to look back at the decisions Bailey has been making, and we might very well be speaking about the turning points in our culture which led to a premiership. And make no mistake, all these decisions are Bailey's decisions. On its face, it appears like McLean and Bruce made independent decisions to leave the club. However, in my opinion, I think that behind close doors there is Bailey making it pretty clear that we have a plan to win a premiership, and that they aren't really key members of that plan in the future. Mclean and Bruce (as well as CJ, Johnstone, McDonald, Buckley) unfortunately could see their days were numbered as they didn't come into Bailey's calculations. Bailey has his plan, and he'll be sticking by it. If a few peripheral players get stung along the way, so be it. The bigger picture is more important! If we don't end up winning a premiership as a product of Bailey's list management then at least we'll have put ourselves in a genuine position to challenge for a premiership. No more finishing 5th-8th and never having a real shot at glory. Premiership success is the one and only goal.

His 2009 mock is ok (though he didn't rate Gysberts very highly) http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=16379176

His 20m sprint time is a real X against him. I bet a lot of recruiters were really disappointed with him coming dead last. These days the first 20m are critical for a forward, in order to get distance between you and the defender on the lead and also in order to chase the ball once it hits the ground.

For me it is very clearly: For 4 remaining leaders stay + Jamar- has indicated he now considers himself and leader and wants to become a mentor to younger players. Now a fine player, he's a monty Frawley- our best young player, he's our next generation of leaders. Our defence is going to revolve around him for the next 10 years Grimes- With Frawley and Grimes being added is an indication that our young leaders are finally ready to take the next step. Grimes will be our next captain (once Green retires), he has leadership written all over him Sylvia, Pettard and Dunn need to work on their own personal development first before taking on the responsibility of being leaders. Sylvia would be the closest outside the 3 I mentioned, however it was only 12 months ago that he openly admitted he's on his way to becoming a better more responsible player, but that he's still got a long way to go. I'm glad he's working on his issues, but I doubt he's got everything covered in a short year. Keep up the good work Colin, and if u keep playing the way u do, you'll be in the leadership group in no time

Leadership group changes OUT: Bruce, McDonald, Miller IN: Jamar, Frawley, Grimes Done and done.

I wonder where Yze_Magic is, he hated Bruce haha (that is unless E25 and Yze_Magic aren't one in the same)