sylvinator

Only quoting from North supporters from several bigfooty posts through 2010 and through this trade period. Obviously the demons rated him at pick 32, but I feel that we only rated him that highly bc of our clear deficiency with no tall forward and no quality 2nd ruckman on our list. The hawks have overpaid on this one imo (pick 28 i believe?), and pick 32 would have been slightly overpaying as well imo. I reckon we'll look back at this one in 2 years and say 'thank god we didn't fall for that one'

I know that some people were warming to the idea of Hale, but I think we'll look back on this trade with a huge sigh of relief! Here are just 2 of many comments by North supporters on BigFooty: - "We can him about being a chicken wing who gets pushed out of contests every single week, but when it's trade time, we want the world for him. Something about cake and eating it too, or something?" - "- Drops too many easy marks. - Is terrible when the ball is below his knees. - Hasn't taken a contested mark for 2 years. - Doesn't get enough of the ball when he is in the ruck. - Hit outs are average at best. - Kicking for goal is good. - Is very slow." Most North supporters are talking up Hale as soon as he's up for trade, yet they have bagged him unrelentingly throughout 2010 for being a soft hack who is terrible below his knees and can't take a contested grab to save himself. Sure, we still have the problem of no quality back-up ruckman, but we've got an All Australian number 1 ruck, and our forward line is developing splendidly. We will draft another young kid with pick 32, and we'll be very well placed in 2 years time to get a genuine gun. We are a team on the rise and everybody knows it

Actually they have 2 or 3 ruckman, they just decided it was irresponsible to expose them to full time duties before they are ready. Hopefully Jamar is able to play out an entire season again next year and we won't have to worry about playing PJ or Spenser as number 1 ruck

Obviously it's just personal opinion, but I disagree. I watched sydney quite a few games this year, and there is good reason he was dropped a couple of times and I don't rate him very highly. That being said, he is a useful player I think pick 32 is pretty fair.

Not a big fan of Jesse White personally. Similar ability to Hale I guess though probably not quite as good. Sydney would probably accept pick 32. Depending how desperate we are for a 2nd ruckman it does seem likely to FD would look to a guy like Jesse.

Sure its frustrating. But ironically, the very same fact that players haven't wanted to come to Melbourne has led us to where we are today... the envy of most of the competition and widely regarded as a future gun team. - If we got Judd, we'd have had to give up at least pick 4, pick 14 + a player. In retrospect those picks got us Morton and Grimes. - If we got Ball we would probably have had to give up pick 18, or pick 34 + a sweetener. Those picks netted us Tapscott and Gawn - if we don't get Hale we'll keep pick 32. Pick 32 might net us a future gun. Bennel was pick 35! Our philosophy under Dean Bailey is to achieve success through the draft, and we will continue on our merry way. When we get into the top 4 in 2 years, with Scully, Trengove, Watts and Morton still improving, I'm telling you there will be plenty of players that would just on the opportunity to play for the mighty demons.

Very irresponsible imo. Sylvia or Dunn in the ruck is plainly irresponsible, they will be seriously hurt if forced to ruck regularly. Spenser, Fitzpatrick and Gawn and clearly years away from being competitive in the ruck and it would be unfair on their development to throw them to the wolves. Why do you think the Suns picked up Fraser, a complete spud ruckman? For one reason only. It would be completely irresponsible for them to throw an 18 year old up full time against 100kg mature ruckman. I don't think our FD would agree with your line of thinking. If Jamar went down, PJ would be our only realistic option, and our only hope is that he can play reasonably competitively like he showed in 2-3 games this year.

Think about us for the last 4 years... the team down in the dumps, $5m in debt, absolutely horrendous facilities. Don't get too down in the dumps, we shouldn't be feeling or thinking like victim. We are clearly a team on the rise, we're stable off-field, and have awesome facilities now. Now was never the time to get in a big-name player on big bucks. That will be in 2 years time when we have manipulated an huge amount of space in the cap and will have a much better idea of our deficiencies that need to be filled to win a premiership. Next year is about continuing to pump games into the youngsters, win as many games as possible, and continue the process of seeing which players are capable of taking us forward, and which aren't quite up to it.

It does to me. Hale is not only being targeted for his ability to play as a tall forward. The other main reason he is being targeted is bc other than Jamar we have PJ and 3 teenage ruckman. Hale would be an upgraded version of PJ in the role of back-up ruckman. If we don't get Hale and Jamar goes down, we are pretty stuffed, but no where near as stuffed as we would be if we delisted PJ also, and had to rely on 3 teenagers who would be absolutely mauled by most opposition ruckman.

I think if we don't get Hale it could be a blessing in disguise. Realistically, next year we won't be a real challenger, probably gunning between 7th-10th. Our real challenge for the top 8 is going to be in 2 years time. If that is the case, why not continue to use next year as a year of development. Try to unearth more youngsters, by blooding Fitzpatrick or Spenser, plus gysberts, Tapscott and Blease. Continue to front load contracts which will leave us a big amount of salary space in 2 years time, in which time we can go out and target a genuine gun! I would be content knowing we will continue to have a few deficiencies next year by not getting Hale, knowing we can go out and get a genuine gun when we're actually challenging.

phew that was close. If we get him for 32, nice. If not, we have an ridiculously talented up-n-coming forward line (Jurrah, Watts, Pettard, Green, Wona, Sylvia) and an All Australian ruckman. We'll just continue on our merry way, putting our faith in the draft and the players already on our list. who knows, next year Spenser might have a breakout year and become a capable back up. Maybe Fitzpatrick will be blooded and show he's a more than capable 200cm forward. All is certainly not lost.

It should not be forgotten that we are one injury away from Warnock being a key part of our defence. There is no doubt he is next in line after Frawls, River and Garland, especially considering Martin and McNamara have not come on as we would have liked. Injuries are inevitable, and he will be a great back up next year

what makes me hopeful is the quotes coming from Prendergast indicate we are not desperate for any player. Desperation is what will lead us to being ripped off. If we get Hale for a fair price... great. If we miss out bc some other club offers something we can't match... that's ok too. We do have an All Australian ruckman, and a forward line consisting of Watts, Jurrah, Pettard, Green, Wona and Sylvia... we'll survive without Hale very easily. If we give more than pick 32 i'd be dissapointed

Disagree. Do you think that in 6 months time, Scully, Trengove, Blease, Tapscott, Gysberts, Strauss (all teenagers!) will suddenly be ready to lead the midfield and take the big hits at the bottom of all the packs? Yes, Jones is borderline best 22 and probably won't be in 2 years... however for the next 2 years he will play a very important inside role for the side, protecting the teenagers from doing the grunt work. And... if Jones keeps improving like he did at certain stages in 2010, and eliminates some of the rough edges from his game, he might surprise us all and be a very valuable member of the team going forward. After all, he is only 22 years old

definitely! Anyone expected a huge step up from PJ is going to be massively disappointed. We have an All Australia ruckman. We are recruiting a back up ruck and a short term target up forward. We should barely be offering our 2nd rounder. I will be disappointed if the club ever even considered it

oh jeez, pleeeaaassseeee say it isn't so. We are majorly getting ripped off with that trade. Hale is pretty much a spud, pick 12 should NOT be on the table. If that trade goes through, we'll be the laughing stock of the comp, North would be sniggering all the way to the bank, and we'll be paying $425k a year to a guy who will spend half his time next year in the vfl

great stuff by the FD once again. They are locking away in long term deals all our most important youngsters (Trengove, Frawley, Grimes) and signing up on 2 year deals alot of guys that still have something to prove. So much better than the old FD who gave long term deals to 27 years olds (Yze, White) on huge pay packets. I agree that Scully should be absolute priority on a 3-4 year extension, there is nothing more certain in the world than him becoming a gun AFL player. No risk involved. Who is left unsigned? - Bruce and PJ definitely. I'm still uncertain in Warnock is still contracted & being put up for trade.

Of coarse it's different to yours bc, no offence, but your observations that this draft is a kind of 'super' draft don't seem to be based on any strong evidence, while the more reasoned opinions would suggest that this draft, if anything, would probably be slightly weakened by (i) the fact that 17 years olds from last year (Suns) and this year (GWS) have been already pillaged and (ii) 2 top 20 picks have been taken as father sons. That would explain why Prendergast feels that this draft might be slightly thinner on top end elite talent than previous 2 drafts. From what I've been reading of snippets from several AFL recruiting manager, this draft appears to have good depth, with a lot of evenness of players from pick 4-15. That bodes well for us to pick up a ripper at 12. But, as Prenders points out, we'll only know for sure how well each draft is in a few years time. I'm glad Prenders is so happy with the Gysberts pick. Considering those picked around him (Melksham, Lucas etc), i believe we've snared the best of the lot. I'm still happy with Tapscott, but Fyfe picked up only 3 picks later looks an absolute beauty.

Very good post, almost identical to my own thoughts. Whilst i don't rate Hale as a player at all, it seems clear that the benefits he would bring have very little to do with him being a quality player. Very similar to rpfc, imo the 4 main benefits of recruiting Hale would be: 1. Protect Jamar from playing 95% ruck. If he did this year in year out he'd get injured no doubt. 2. Protect our teenage ruckman (Spenser, Gawn, Fitzpatrick) from having to be battered at afl level should Jamar be injured, and allow them to develop slowly and properly. I bet the FD hope none of those 3 ruckman are forced to play for the next 2 years out of necessity, however should Jamar be injured, our hand would be forced. 3. Protect non-ruckman from having to ruck- Dunn, Newton, Sylvia etc 4. Protect Watts & Jurrah from playing the role of number 1 target up forward None of these benefits have anything to do with Hale as a player. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's very average footballer. But I can see benefit in the 4 outcomes above. This is trade out of necessity, with a touch of desperation, rather than a trade of going out and recruiting a quality player to improve the playing list. As long as its viewed as this, a trade for a 2nd rounder might be acceptable.I think the FD is [censored] scared of what would happen should Jamar not play 22 games next year. Assuming PJ is delisted (which he 100% should be), we'd get thrashed in games if we were forced to play Spenser and Gawn before they were ready.

Can i just say, that this grand final 1000% confirmed what i always thought. Having a 200cm big boy to sit in the forward line, might look good on paper for your structure, but it is ABSOLUTELY USELESS if they aren't a good football. Justin KoShitski plays that role for StKilda. He might even play a few ok games throughout the year and kick a few goals. But when it comes to the crunch, having a 200cm crap football is a LIABILITY! David Hale is actually a worse player than KoShitski. And that's saying something. We shouldn't get just any 200cm big bodied player just because they are tall. Hale might be ok a few games a year, but when we need him most, he'll be no where to be seen.

I know it's the responsible way to go about it, but god i hate it when every year I hope Morton will be looking huge in February, but then get disappointed to find him looking like he's got a mild form of anorexia

LIKE! Tapscott will probably start his career up forward as well. Can't wait.

We are unbelievably lucky to have Frawley and Garland as two Key defenders for the next 10 years. We can build our defence around those 2, because they are both good rebounders, and they both can play on any type of player. Our defence will always be a strength with these 2 boys. After missing a full season, it is always difficult the following season. Expect Garland to only get better and better next season.

Now that Mitch Clark is on the trade table, I am really keen to get him (though apparently he might only want to go home to Perth?). He is a great player, his 2nd half of 2009 was All Australian worthy, playing as a ruckman/forward. He is only 22, 200cm. Basically he is exactly what we need, providing a big target up forward and a 2nd ruckman. And unlike David Hale he's actually a very good player. Adding a player like Clark would actually make us a better team. I propose trading pick 12 and Warnock for him. Would that get him over the line.

btw source?