rpfc

No, it's a relevant point. You just don't like it because it is a very good point and it diminishes this argument that "we have such bad kicks!!1!" We don't have good mids to work hard get the effing ball. More worried about that then what they would do with it...

We would not get near the kind of deal I would want to move him. And like I care that he isn't showing ultimate loyalty to this club. We have not been ultimately competent and The Jack Watts Experience is Exhibit A in the trial of this club's terrible culture of overreliance on draft picks and nonchalant development. Jack Trengove showed after 186 that he has the kind of loyalty as a Demon that he re-signed in a dark period. And what has that gotten him? A whole lot of nothing. I hope we keep Watts and the next coach gets something out of him.

Yeah, my point is that kicking ability is a peripheral problem compared to the dearth of hard running mids.

I guess my point is that good midfielders can be good kicks, but I would take hard working mids as a start. Our midfield isn't bad because we miss targets, it is bad because it doesn't work hard enough and isn't bold enough.

Yeah, he does screw up a few doesn't he? The Top 150 Average Uncontested Possession gatherers in the AFL: 12 are from Coll and Fre. 11 from Ade and WB. 10 from Geel and NM. 9 from StK, Rich, and Ess. 8 are from GWS, GC, Haw, and WCE. 7 from Carl and BL. 6 from Port, and 5 from Sydney. 4 are from the last team: Mitch Clisby 66th Matt Jones equal 82nd Nathan Jones equal 98th Dean Terlich equal 140th As Sydney are our closest rival in these numbers (albeit playing on a home ground with far less room for uncontested possies...) I will compare their entrants to our entrants in the top 150: J McVeigh equal 13th N Malceski equal 24th D Hannebery equal 26th K Jack equal 38th T Mitchell equal 126th This illustrates where we are at - we have a midfield that doesn't work hard enough or be bold enough to run and get the footy and the closest team to us in terms of these hard running mids has a far better class with McVeigh, Malceski, Hannebery, and Jack (all in the top 40) compared to our 4; three of which are mature age recruits in their first season of AFL. This is where we can get better quickly. You don't need to be the greatest kick or have the greatest skills to be a hard running mid who - if he has enough friends - can drive a team back to relevance. I expect this to be a major area for the next coach to attack and improve.

Quite frankly, I am not worried about how we deliver the footy, we don't get it enough. Give me a hard running mid that gets 20 uncontested possies and farks it up 6 times than a beautiful kick who gets it in space 7 times a game and never screws up. Kieran Jack is a rough kick. He is a superb footy player.

There are different ways to become more effective with your kicks if you cannot improve your technique, which can be difficult for players with an ingrained kick since childhood. Those new to footy can alter a new habit far more easily - I have seen that first hand up in Canberra. So for those that cannot alter how they kick, they can alter when they kick, and what they try to do with the footy. As clint bizkit said, playing within your limitations is a very quick way to get 'better.' James McDonald made his improvement with his kicking in this fashion. The skills across the board will improve once the team improves as the pressure on skills is eased and, most importantly, the perceived pressure on skills is eased.

It's hardly being dismissive. You want them spurned for life. The caricature you have painted of CC would be laughable, if you and others weren't so serious about it. People fark up. Trying to do what is best for the club. Ultimately, you can do what you want. But this club is too small to not allow CC back into the fold at some point, and CS, and McLardy, and Jalland, and Gardner, and every other Demon that has been Demonised. Because that is what good clubs are; a sprawling mess of egos and rage and blame all in the same tent wanting badly for the same ends. OD - this is what my point is - the is so much blame and rage to be shared that we cannot afford to banish all those we wish to punish. There will be no club left.

I am talking about the character assassination that wyl just blurted in a previous post. Stop looking at lines in posts in isolation - but it is plainly just mean and immature to believe that CC is anything other than another Demon who feels the same as we do. He has made some mistakes, and so have the people that employed him and others, but this endless bonfire has to end. These people are not characters from LOTR - they are not evil - they are Demons That Have Farked Up. And there are so many Demons That Have Farked Up over the years that we are all in this together, trying to make amends, forgiving those that have been before, and attempt to pull ourselves out of the muck with the aide of the AFL.

You don't know CC do you, wyl? You are so quick to damn Demons. This club is a shell because we keep burning each other and pointing at one another for the malaise we are in. This club needs to grow up and that includes it supporters.

Demons lose Picks 5, 32, and 47 spread over the 1999 and 2000 drafts for Salary Cap breaches. Demons select Luke Molan, Steven Armstrong and Aaron Rodgers with Picks 9, 25 and 26 in 2001. Demons select Daniel Bell and Nick Smith with Picks 14 and15 in 2002. Demons trade Pick 21 for Ben Holland in 2003. Demons turn Darren Jolly, Scott Thompson, Picks 13 and 29 into Matthew Bate, Lynden Dunn, Brent Moloney, and Paul Johnson in 2004. Demons trade Picks 28 and 44 for Byron Pickett in 2005. Demons select Cale Morton and Addam Maric with Picks 4 and 21 and trade Pick 38 for John Meesen in 2007. Demons select Sam Blease, James Strauss, and Jamie Bennell with Picks 17, 19, and 35 in 2008. Demons trade Brock McLean for Pick 11 and select Jordan Gysberts and select Luke Tapscott with Pick 18 in 2009. Demons lose Cameron Bruce and James McDonald prematurely and select Lucas Cook with Pick 12 in 2010. These are the bylines to our mysery. And it spans Boards and Coaches, almost generations... And it still hurts. Geelong is still fuelled by the drafts of 1999 and 2000. Scott Thompson would be capain of the club should fate have been different. You can keep looking for blame and assigning it to whomever but there is so much to go around that it becomes irrelevant. This club is not big enough to get out the torches again. There is no satisfaction in shooting yourself deliberately in the foot. You want this club to be great again? Forgive some Demons and get over it.

This is the kind of attitude Neeld was allowed to realise during his short tenure. There will be plenty of turnover in staff and players but to cut a swathe across a number of people is very Neeldesque. And, yeah, we are terrible because we have no hard running mids, decent leaders, and star quality players. That comes back to recruiting, retention, and development in order of importance. We will bounce back. At some point.

Without going into a massive thread distraction - uncontested possession is an easier 'kill' and would make us more competitive. Hard running mids.

Does anyone see any irony with this?

[shakes head] There is no rule anymore that means a certain amount of wins will mean you don't get a PP. Did you know that? We can beat GWS, GC and WB and it will not change the fact that we do not have a midfield and we need assets (high draft picks) to do what you said in that last paragraph - trade for, and recruit talent to turn us around. And it doesn't mean you are trading Pick 1 for those wins, I would ask for picks 10 and 20 if pick 1 is off limits. We have been a lead weight on the comp these last two years. It needs us to be better, the AFL requires us to have draft assistance.

How about we get a good experienced coach, get him to get some bright assistant coaches and build them up to be seen as future head coaches, and then pick one of them at some point in the future should they be seen as the best options? Or we could just name some bloke to take over after 3 years or something stupid like that. Whatever.

Did you read everything up to that last line? FMD. The Stynes Board is gone. As is the Gardner Board, something I say often. The report is just dressing for what the AFL is going to tell us to do. Unless of course you would like Clothier, Haddard and Deloitte to do real independent review and throw more blood into the water? Do we want a unified club or do we want to continue burning everyone who has ever been involved in the club?

Back scratching? That usually doesn't involve drawing blood... It's ridiculous to have a board report on itself but from what I read in that summary they were after a time dysfunctional micro managers who were not aware if where their role ended and the admins started. Added to the fact that the report is a vehicle for the AFL to install the best group of Demons in their eyes and I don't really care about the independent-ness of the report.

Let's hope. He can be involved for all I care. But I want one ticket to be ratified in October and for it to be AFL endorsed. I can't see a better way out of our current mire than a path with AFL support.

My question is the AFL endorsed ticket or Stocdale's ticket. I don't think there would be many fans who know how to judge a ticket - the key is the 'AFL endorsed' aspect of it. Frankly, it has got to the point where my vote will depend on whether the AFL endorsed ticket has AFL support (which it obviously will) and that they are all Demons (which I assume they will be). Stockdale seems to be against the very idea of the level of AFL involvement here and that is why I have framed the question as one or the other - AFL-endorsed or MFC-heavies-doing-their-thing.

This is for Stockdale's benefit - he wants to know our thoughts. I am happy to oblige.

It seems that Alan Stockdale's fears over the governance issues, with Jackson choosing his future bosses in conjunction with new Directors George Freeman and Glen Bartlett, and the AFL Executive, have led him to be convinced that an independent ticket is required with him as President - Former state treasurer Alan Stockdale has revealed his plan to save Melbourne Stockdale has unveiled his plan to gauge the feelings of Dees supporters toward his proposed ticket - well, we have an obligation as the foremost fan community of this club to let our feelings be known. The Road To October The AFL will install who they want with the help of Freeman and Bartlett through the medium of Jackson on an interim basis in the next few weeks. Where we come into a massive impasse is if Stockdale is not on that ticket and decides that indiscretion is the better part of valour with a rival ticket at what the AFL would have assumed would be a fait accompli of an EGM with a unity Board with their approval. Whether this expectation is hubris on the part of the AFL is irrelevant - Stockdale may challenge. This poll asks a very simple question and should reflect the view of the body of people Stockdale hopes to capture now or in October. rpfc's view: What a waste of talent. That is how I see the few of have followed Stockdale down a road that we lead to either NOTHING or a costly ticket in October that the AFL do not want to see and that the future of the club could do without. I hope the AFL get on the phone to each one of his backers and asks them for their insights into a UNITY Board.

This isn't Sautner sitting in the square - there are 12 mid positions in any high level of football and plenty of places for these kids to get a chance and shine.

What if we fall through on all of those? What if Williams wants a midfield and wants to trade him? Frankly, I have him pencilled on the trade list anyway, because this is a ruthless business and I want to get better. Watts is doing what a bright manager would instruct a player to do.

Oh, this isn't good... Does anyone else feel ill when someone uses "the fans right to decide" and in the next breath wants the AFL to install them immediately? He doesn't want the AFL to be puppet master unless he is the puppet. I guess we are headed for an EGM and an incumbent AFL-endorsed ticket and a ticket led by Stockdale. Unless sense and unity intervenes.