AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey

ANB, Oscar, Tmac, Hannan, Jetta, Preuss...already on top of the delistings of both Wagners, Dunkley, Bennell and the probable retirement of KK. Not saying all will go but has been strongly suggested most will be moved on, and I'm sure there may be a few others not to receive contracts either at the end of this period. I cannot recall us having a higher turnover of close to best 22 players in recent years, and the decisions seem to indicate we're trying to get our salary down to acquire higher quality players this period. I'd hardly say a 32 year old Isaac Smith is anywhere in the vicinity of how much better those 3 additions to Richmond made them. Vickery was a dud, Chaplin was old and Yarran was on the gear...Can't say they missed them much. If our list was really primed to challenge for a flag, why are we perennially losing to decent sides, crucial games to cellar dwellers and finishing second last 2 years ago? I get the argument to go all in while we still have the talented players we do at the right ages (Gawn, May, Trac etc.) which is why Smith makes sense, but I just think that Phillips would offer as much as Smith will for the right now and the distant future.

I dont think many on here would disagree that Smith is a solid short term option, and I'm also bullish on our chances to improve our ladder position next year, but to make the jump all the way to a premiership given how poorly we have performed over the last two years (both players and coaches) just doesn't seem in the equation in the time frame of Smith playing decent footy during his contract. Yes teams have turned it around in the past, however on the back of really good off field direction and list decisions. Richmond recruited 3 walk up starters to their best 22 in Prestia, Nankervis and Caddy in the 2016 offseason (more than just role players) so it's a bit wishful thinking things are magically going to turn around purely on just game plan alone. Yes that 2nd wing position is a gaping hole that needs filling there's no doubt about it, but to sink salary into a 32 year old Smith for 3 years when we're already on the brink of the salary cap and jettisoning players left and right to make way for a player that maybe gets one-to-two decent seasons in just screams of desperation. It's just really difficult to get excited by this deal. I agree there certainly aren't better options on our list, but there are certainly better options out there (e.g. Phillips) that IMHO would be a much more sustainable option in terms of output and $.

No doubt a head coach would have a say in list decisions, however there are many other factors than just their word at play in moving/retaining a player which have seemingly already been decided regardless of who the coach is. It would really surprise me if whoever was their new head coach completely backflipped an entire club's decision on one player.

I highly doubt that this would be the case. It'd be very rare that a player would be pushed out only to be welcomed back in simply on the word of the head coach. I'd also find it hard to believe that it was Rhyce Shaw's word to move on Brown and the decision likely would have come from higher ups at the club, i.e. list boss (whoever that is), and Glen Archer (seemingly runs the joint). The joint is a mess and I doubt Brown would likely even say yes to staying if was asked to after all of this.

I think the long term argument is relevant, because at the end of the day you're getting maybe 1 good year out of him next year and beyond that it realistically looks downhill. Lewis was 32 when he retired (yes Lewis was probably a bit slower and banged up from playing inside roles but even his kicking went south), thats the same age as Smith is now and we're thinking we can get something out of him at 34/35? He makes our list slightly more talented for a year maximum. Just cannot see what Smith has to offer our side besides leadership off-field and slightly more depth beyond next year? I get that he's free in the sense of giving up nothing for him, however we have to sink salary and play him at the expense of developing someone like Baker. If we were serious about continuing to build a talented list beyond "topping up" with dubious 32+ year old players we need to be chasing someone like a Tom Phillips who can have roughly the same level of output for the next 5-8 years.

Picked up a leg injury if I recall correctly towards the end of the year that put him out for at least 4-5 games. Was pushing for selection for their final against the Eagles but didnt make it. I think a straight swap Tmac for Phillips would be beneficial for all involved.

Don't think he's quite in the shape/mould of a winger and certainly doesnt have the speed to work as that hard 2 way runner. I think our numerous experiments with Tomlinson, Jones and AVB have proven that bigger body midfielder type struggles as a purely outside player.

Why is it that every player that gets pushed out of a club all of a sudden seen as damaged goods? They obviously see Daicos as a better talent and I would agree, the kid is an absolute gun. Why keep around Phillips if he's surplus to needs and can free up salary for other moves. Phillips fits in that same mould as Langdon (definitely a better kick) runs really hard as that link between D50 and forward half. Our improvement on the outside purely from Langdon as that outlet was enormous for our structure and I'd take that over the kicks he ends up shanking.

This would make footy unwatchable. Plenty of ways to open up scoring besides this...

It would be absolutely bizarre if the club didnt either land or chase a key froward extremely hard particularly after Goodwin stated that we needed another big forward.

I think the problem with TMAc really stemmed from how much weight he was carrying and maybe the ankle injury never fully getting right, leading to a lack of mobility which has been a cornerstone of his game, on top of an obvious lack of confidence in himself this year. I dont think he could ever have as bad a year as he had this year, however we're in strife if we're banking on Tmac to be the answer to our problems.

If thats a role the club want filled than I'd think it silly if the club didnt enquire about Phillips. Just because players are becoming available now doesnt mean we just automatically pack it in for them because we owe to another player who hasnt even committed. Trade period isnt for another 3 weeks ! Plenty of time to put in some groundwork elsewhere.

Would much rather Phillips than Smith or Polec. Has had roughly the same output and has age on his side. Even better if Phillips is the key to getting Tmac and some of his enormous salary out the door. Smith has 1 maybe 2 decent years left. If we cave and give him a 3rd year or a trigger for a 3rd we are seriously taking the mickey. A 35 year old running around...no thanks. Only benefit I see in Smith is he comes for free.

Whilst it does seem off, I would reckon the club is doing its due diligence regarding his body and not just jumping at somebody thats just there for the taking. They wouldnt be trying to move so many pieces around if they didnt think they could get him right/thought he would give us the output we'd want out of him. We've got Darren Burgess who managed to get Harley Bennell back to playing AFL which was an absolute miracle so we have that on our side too. I think we need to give the club the benefit of the doubt here and back them in to know what theyre doing.

Yep 100%, thought the same myself right after I posted. Another good half back flanker could allow Salem to move up further afield where we can use his kick much better.

Bit of a leftfield thought, but how about a look into an Alex Witherden on a wing? I know he's played the majority of his footy down off half back, but is a beautiful kick of the ball and could really be a great outside distributor through midfield if he worked up the legs to do it. Seems like on the outer at the Lions and they dont seem to concerned to let him go.

Too many variables point to any sort of deal involving Clarry going anywhere not getting done. We need someone like a Jones and Gawn who have suffered through the worst of it to tell the kid to pull his head firmly back in.

Yet to hear any credible sources on this one or have I been living under a rock?

Interesting indeed if that's the case. Carlton fans delusions about Oliver can continue on then.

If Cripps were to want out back to WA, I could really only see the Dockers being the realistic suitors. I couldnt imagine the Eagles have any salary left nor the picks to satisfy Carlton in a trade, hence why I believe these rumours are total bull.

Being interested and keeping a close eye on are the exact same thing at the end of the day. Agree that currently we're not in a position to make any conceivable move yet but is at least good to know the club is at least trying to improve our list beyond the odd older free agent or two. Have to be in it to win it at the end of the day and has got to count for something if multiple sources have said we're considering the move.

Cal Twomey on AFL's footy feed today reporting that Melbourne are very very interested in Ben Brown. For what it's worth, Cal's word around these sorts of things is very reliable so I'd expect a high level of truth in that. Would imagine some stronger links may be made once our salary cap is roughly determined for next year after the new club soft cap, list sizes and further delisitings and salary dumps of ANB/Oscar are announced and done. Would be good to have an in principle deal done soon with Brown to ensure he wants to come.

It's hard not to be worried that it seems like theyre backing in what they already have on the list with all these resignings. However, dumping some of those players will no doubt free up a bit of $$ under the cap to work towards landing some key pieces this off season. The fact that KK hasnt retired by this point leaves me to believe he/the club may be hopeful of him returning to play. No doubt the further list cuts will be made once the clubs have an idea of the soft cap reduction for the upcoming season. I don't think we'll be hearing much in terms of legitimate trade talk until that point and we can know for certain who is in the realms of affordability and who isnt. I would genuinely hope that those higher up at the club (especially Pert etc.) wouldn't be sitting around saying the list we have is acceptable and would be pushing hard to drive further off season change on the trade table.

Have seen a bulk of his twitter work to understand the concern, however I wouldnt exactly say it correlates towards being inept when it comes to footy related business. Having someone like Green invested in the club is a big win imo.

Can't see Dodo letting 4 best 22 players out the gate, or maybe their problems really are that bad. Regardless, could be a decent get as a more outside positioned mid that we've been after. Still reckon a decent forward would be the priority before someone like Smith