Lord Nev

Yep, there's a whole other thread that could be filled with the very current 'talk' going around about 'Goodwin's Boys'...

As far as I've heard we're into Langdon in a big way, also keen on Hill but doesn't seem as likely. Obviously we'd all prefer some genuine pacy wingers who are fantastic kicks, but I guess you have to settle for what's realistically available at some stage.

Forward structure is definitely part of the problem, clearly when you're changing up the coaching so drastically. Weid and TMac often seem to fly for the same ball, but I wonder again if that's a coaching issue in regards to our game style? The thing is, the kick rating stat takes situation and pressure into account: Kick rating takes into account the difficulty of a player's kick and attributes an expected percentage for any player to successfully hit a target in various scenarios. A zero per cent rating means the footballer is performing as expected. Source So Viney being 508 out of the 526 players with the metrics assigned, is a horrible look in that context.

Sensational news! Thanks Jane!

He's definitely got a bit of his 'burst' back. Have noticed he's more able to break away from congestion lately.

Not sure on the inside 50 retention stat over that course of time, but over the last month he's averaged 4.75 turnovers per game, which means 1 in ever 5.7 disposals is a turnover in that time. He's had much higher numbers disposal wise over the last month. The closest we can get potentially would be that he's had 3 goal assists out of 15 inside 50s.

I'm not sure on his individual numbers for that stat for previous years, it's not one that is generally available, seems to more pop up when articles are written and it's published. I'm assuming, but would guess it has gone down this year given it's being reported now, and also due to us as a team taking nose dives in those kind of stats. Anecdotally it did seem like his delivery was poor last year, but not to the extent it has been this year.

Some of you have probably already got sick of my posts about this issue, but I feel like it's reached a point now that it needs a singular focus. For all the whacks Jones seems to cop, Viney has avoided criticism somewhat, perhaps due to his surname and his hardness at the contest (which we all love). The fact remains however, that our co-captain is one of the worst kicks in the league in a team crying out for some leadership as far as providing an example of good delivery going forward. The AFL average for kick inside 50 retention (which basically measures the effectiveness of delivery forward) is 46%. As of the most recent reportings* of this stat we are at 41% which puts us 3rd worst in the league. Gus and Clarry are both poor, and well below average, at 33% and 30% respectively, but Viney has gone at a staggeringly bad 24%. This means less than 1 in 4 of his kicks are actually going anywhere near one of our own players. *Source In the round 9 game v West Coast, Hurn and McGovern combined for double figures in marks directly from Jack Viney kicks. According to stats released today* we rank as the worst in the league for kicks inside 50 (not a surprise) and 11th for kicks overall. In the "kick rating" stats Viney is rated at -11.4%, which puts him at 508th in the league. 508th. The co-captain, and midfield leader responsible for providing an example of how we should be delivering the ball forward, is 508th in the league. *Source I know there's endless talk about how we need outside run and skill, but adding 1 or 2 (if we're lucky) players in to aid that weakness will not have much of an impact if we have this kind of a performance from our midfield leader. So my questions are: Given this is a continuing problem, is it a reflection of his limitations as a player, or is he operating as the coach wishes? Visually it appears to be more about decision making, but could his foot problems be effecting this? With Jones likely to not be a co-captain next year (in one way or another), do we make a player who reflects our faults so majorly the sole captain? And of course, how do we address and fix it as a club? This isn't to slam Viney, he's easily one of my favourite players in his consistent intent and unmatched toughness, but it's clearly a big issue for us as a team.

I agree mate, and I've said similar things about Kent and Hogan as well, who were two of our best users going inside 50. I understand the different reasons both left, but we didn't try super hard to keep them. Especially with Kent it hurts when we offered vandenBerg the contract length that Kent wanted but couldn't get. We've shipped out 3 of our best users going forward and haven't replaced their skill, so we shouldn't be surprised by how far that part of our game has fallen away (when it wasn't even that great to begin with).

If we're rolling with this 1 game comparison, then I'd take 3 goals, 24 touches and 7 marks in an Elimination Final against a high quality backline, than 3 goals, 10 touches and 5 marks (with no other real key forward target) in a meaningless game against a rubbish backline. Petty did well, hope he gets another chance at playing forward this week, but let's judge it when (or, if) both get to at least 50 games as forwards as a minimum. Shouldn't really have to argue about judging a player after 1 game, come on mate.

Ok then. https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/welcome-to-the-big-time-melbourne-young-forward-sam-weideman-produces-an-unbelievable-september-debut/news-story/6c43a665ada122edae418d3d5a8e7edd

Sorry George, I'm not sold on this outlook given Brayshaw has been out of form the whole season. Sure, maybe 1 or 2 weeks you could argue we stick with him as he's a better option (in your opinion) than what's at Casey, but continuing to pick a massively underperforming player while ignoring consistent performances at VFL level is undermining the culture Roos strived to build and destroying any kind of concept of competition for spots. It's been 17 rounds and Brayshaw hasn't turned his form around. Exactly how many weeks does he get based on his draft order in your system of selection?

Nah don't think they did mate, just a behind. Still a critical error though.

Got a free about 15 out, tight-ish angle. Reckon about 4 minutes to go, scores tight (think we were 7 or 8 points down at that stage), played on ridiculously quickly and missed what should have been an easy goal. Horrible mistake amongst an otherwise good game from him.

Yeah, but let's remember we also ended up with Petty and Hore (if I've worked that out right) in that trade.

He's also 23, so I reckon hold off for now.

Might be a bit of a backhander, but my "gains" would be that the year has been THAT bad that significant change will now happen where it needs to, which may not have happened had we had another year with mild success.

That would explain his performance, but for mine, doesn't explain why he's being picked every game. Pack him off and get him right. Just another indictment on our management if that's the case.

That's fair enough mate, we can all see different things from the same game hey. I think the leadership and culture stuff is sometimes hard to pick from our vantage point in the stands. My impression of it with Lewis is that he would talk about things during the week in meetings, maybe even have individual chats with players, then he'd back it up in training and on game day and that reinforces the message. I think that kind of leadership is what our leaders need to learn from the most to improve, so that's how I think he improves the culture. Agree that some of the key indicators on the weekend were poor for our midfield, that's why I was trying to say that I wasn't implying Lewis played great, more that him tackling, winning clearances and even how he used it out of those clearances was an example to our underperforming mids. I would love to see Viney learn those aspects from Lewis.

That would raise the question then of management (yet again). If he has been carrying an injury all year, then why play him when we have JKH, C.Wagner, Baker and more recently Maynard all in good enough form to warrant selection and play his role? And if we're using Lewis as part of the scenario, why wasn't he in the team for a month? Whether he's out of form or injured, he shouldn't be playing either way.

Thanks for the clarification Neita Jnr, always been confused as I kept seeing it spelled differently everywhere.

Had more tackles today than all of Jetta, Lockhart, Gus, ANB, Fritsch, Hannan, Dunk, Hibberd, Preuss, May, Salem, Lever and Jones. Wouldn't confuse 'not chasing' with just being slow. Also had more clearances than anyone aside from Oliver, and the most centre clearances for the whole team. Not saying he was BOG or anything, but the bloke has 4 flags that say he knows about "winning culture". That's 4 more than our whole club has won for 55 years.

Yeah thought about it, but I reckon leave him for one more then bring him out the next week as we freshen up.

Hey mate, have a read of the OP. I know the context might seem different at the moment, but the original suggestion is that we look at trading a very good player to get another very good player(s) who could fill our desperate need for outside mids. It's not a thread designed to suggest trading him because he's no good.

Need to look at fresh legs next week and the week after, especially after the last 2 games and how tired we've looked. OUT: Preuss, Lockhart, Hannan, ANB, Brayshaw IN: Weid, C.Wagner, JKH, Jordan, Baker Preuss and Lockhart were both pretty strapped up and looked to struggle big time as the game went on. Save them the trip and bring them in the next week. Gus just looks a mix of exhausted and over it, he has reached a critical point as far as intent goes this season for mine. Needs to reset. For the sake of culture and genuine competition for spots, Goody needs to put aside his favourites for one week and pick on merit of performance and effort. Might not get us the win, but doing that more often will have us better focused mentally for next year.