Watson11

I suspect if Chris Scott had been a coach at North and Essendon his record would probably be similar to Brad’s (zero grand finals made in 12 seasons). Being at Geelong is a big advantage for him.

This will be my last post on this topic as we seem to be at polar opposites. It was sorry for not reading closely to the bottom but not sorry for having a shot at you. Your post is amplifying the anti-Tracc sentiment that has pervaded most Melbourne supporters based on an assumption that Tracc fed Morris and others the story. It's fact that Morris/Barrett stated people inside the club leaked critical parts of the story. Are you OK with that? Serious question. Just to remind you, we know Tracc had "confidential" conversations about wanting the club to improve as his statement said "I voiced my concerns as a leader, wanting better for our club, playing group, and fans. During this time, I have been in open communication with the player leadership group and club leaders to ensure we can work together to improve as a club. I make no apologies for wanting to better our club and contribute to our success both on and off the field." Everything else written could be leaks from inside the club with some mayo on them to make Tracc look bad and to protect individuals inside the club making them look reasonable. Morris/Barrett stated the Brand Tracc stuff was from the club. It's likely we have multiple leakers. The bits of your post that I strongly object to are highlighted, but every other bit copied below is just amplifying what the media has speculated on and is not a fact, and is mostly based on leaks from the club. Anyway, I'm out on this topic. Hopefully all supporters can get behind everyone in the red and blue and support them next year and stop the divisive sniping at our only Norm Smith medallist. Hopefully the club can also block up the sieve and weed out the people who leak confidential discussions. That will be a starting point to resolve the dysfunction that we all saw. "Tracc fed Morris' his laundry list of complaints, which, combined with inferences people have made from the 'reporting' can be boiled down to, what: - Tracc unhappy with how the club dealt with him post injury - Tracc unhappy the club not more successful - Tracc unhappy being at a club with fewer supporters than the 'big' clubs - Tracc unhappy with the 'culture' at the club (with the inference widely accepted that translates to a party culture) - Tracc unhappy with how clarry was 'handled", before and after his dramas - Tracc unhappy with the 'professionalism' of teamates Have I missed something? Notice the common theme - 'tracc unhappy'. Let's accept that that is how tracc genuinely feels. And let's accept that tracc clearly had an agenda in feeding Morris That's not the same as those issues being real. But of course, it doesn't mean they aren't either - to some degree or other. I can't stand Morris, but don't blame him writing a hit piece based on info tracc fed to him. He is merely feeding an insatiable demand for gossip, and seemingly for information that confirms many dees 'supporters' henny penny complaints. Morris is not a journalist, so has no interest in balance. But it would be great if people did some critical thinking, and rather than just drinking the tracc aid"

Apologies. The facts you quoted I don’t disagree with and hadn’t focussed on them. I was too irate after reading the long spiel where you stated several times that Tracc had been feeding Morris info.

None of your logic around this makes any sense at all. What are the agreed facts. I think what you have decided is a fact and what is actually a fact are two very different things. The point is absolutely not the same irrespective of what source the story came from. According to Morris and Barrett we have leakers inside the club. That is confirmed as they named sources inside Melbourne as the origin of some of the stories about Tracc. Have you considered that when sources inside Melbourne leak confidential information (Traccs brand stuff, ANB leaving etc), these sources are actually dishonest and unethical individuals, and therefore you cannot trust what they say. Morris may be printing what they say, but fundamentally he is printing stuff leaked from dishonest people.

So you are still convinced Tracc or a surrogate leaked the story. I'm convinced it came from Morris's source inside Melbourne, the same source that fed him the "Brand Petracca" stuff. My view is it's likely Tracc confidentially spoke to people inside Melbourne about his frustrations saying he would leave if not contracted, and this was leaked to Morris by his source inside Melbourne. In those circumstances the situation would definitely blow up like it did. But we will probably never know until Tracc writes a book after his career is over.

Do you have any evidence Tracc fed the story to Morris. The only public statement Morris made about sources was that the “Brand Petracca” source was fed to him by people at Melbourne and not Tracc.

So former powerhouse club that has not won a final in 20 years and failed to finish above 7th in that period, has organisational cultural problems. What a surprise.

Re B&F dates. Brett Deledio spoke about how Richmond used to book 2 dates, one in case they missed finals and an October date if they made it. The rationale was most players want a trip somewhere and there was no point hanging around Melbourne just for the B&F before going on a trip. 1%ers.

I was going to post this on the other Goody forum but it seems more appropriate to be posted on this one. A fair few posters quote that Goody's record stacks up against the best in the business. I don't agree but hadn't really looked at the numbers closely and his record stacks up slightly better than I thought it did. To be fair, I compared coaches records at the end of their 8th season (ignoring what came after). Goody had more flags than Mick Malthouse at that stage so ranks higher than Mick. 49 coaches have had 8 seasons. I ranked them on premierships, GFs, prelims, finals, and W-L records at the end of their 8th season. If tied I compared the next stat ie ranking premierships, ties were broken by GFs played etc. Goody's ranking is: Premierships 28 out of 49 (Only 11 had 2+ flags) GFs 36 out of 49 (27 had 2+ GFs) Prelims 36 out of 49 (26 had 3+ prelims) Finals 35 out of 49 (31 had 5+ finals) W-L 30 out of 49 One small ray of hope is Goody equalled or ranked above Bomber Thompson, Leigh Matthews, Mick Malthouse, Hardwick, Chris Scott, John Kennedy Snr, Alan Jeans, Clarko, Frank Hughes and Malcolm Blight for premierships after 8 seasons. All of those coaches went on to win more flags from their 9th year on (several won multiple times). The coaches who went on to win more flags at the club they started are a smaller group (Clarko, C Scott, Hardwick, Bomber Thompson). Most of the others changed clubs and had a new list when they had the majority of their success. This won't end debate on how good a coach Goody is, with some still ranking him up their with Norm Smith and others ranking him with Bill Stephen (didn't make finals in his first 8 seasons at Fitzroy). It is a reasonable dataset that compares all of the coaches at the same stage of their coaching career removing that bias. I hope we sort out our off field distractions and give Goody a good run at it next year. I feel our superstar players are 28-32 and this will be our last real shot for a while.

So Clarko and Hardwick are behind Goody on w-l records but Hinkley and Fagan aren’t. I think it’s universally accepted that 4 flags and 3 flags trumps overall w-l record which just shows the folly of using a w-l percentage to rank a coach.

This explains it https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-star-jack-ginnivan-slammed-over-disrespectful-post/news-story/2db00ad48fff2bd559e546245923d9a5?amp

The point was that changes don't necessarily mean 3 years of wooden spoons and ending up like Norf. Would you rather Geelongs record the last 3 years or ours. Chris Scott is on the record as saying he would rather miss finals than hit September in poor form.

I’m not one that wants everything changed unless it’s needed. Let the review do its job. But if it’s needed no club has had more changes than Collingwood since the end of 2021. 3 CEOs, entirely new board, new coach. 1 flag, 2 prelims, one missed finals. A bit better than Norf.

Quote from Speed in the interview about the review. “Whether Gary Pert should be involved in this, there will be debate about that. I would prefer in those circumstances, in a year where there has been such turmoil there, that the chief executive not being involved in the review”

He was appointed in 2009. He famously developed the 10-year strategic plan in 2010 where they planned to win 3 flags by 2020......

With Daniel Shand, I would expect the review to be mostly focussed on culture which is what should happen. Daniel Shand would have learnt a lot about culture from Graham Henry, who is credited for building the All Black culture and for a period being the most successful team ever. Shand was there from 2004 with Henry. Henry is well known for stating "“Culture eats strategy for breakfast”. When he took over the All Blacks they had a win percentage of 75%, the best in the world, but a [censored] culture. They had failed in 4 consecutive world cups despite being favourites (A lesson for all demonlanders who defend our culture based on W-L records and not finals results). This article delves into it a little bit https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/08/graham-henry-new-zealand-rugby-world-cup Under Henry their motto became "You’re an All Black 24/7" and they were expected to behave off-field, sweep the change rooms, be selfless etc etc. But the player leadership were a key part of the change. Under his reign the win percentage went up to 86%. The 2011 - 2015 percentage was 94% and they won the 2015 WC. The 2011 world cup is an interesting read in the context of our 2022/2023 straight sets exits. Everything that could go wrong went wrong for the All Blacks. But they had planned for it and their 4th string fly-half (Stephen Donald) got them over the line in the final. Henry was criticised a lot for "gifting" players All Black Caps over the years (Stephen Donald as a 4th stringer had 22 caps by 2011). But it was all about planning for World Cup scenarios such as the What-ifs. They knew exactly what to do if anyone got injured or in any unexpected scenario. Ironically, after 2015 the All Blacks have been gradually sliding. Their win rate over the last 4 years is down to 70%. Their could be other factors, but it would not surprise me that if the culture that Henry built over 7 years was maintained for a while and then started to slide. I trust Shand will do a great job.

You might struggle with the character limit on Twitter.

I agree that if it isn't a full external review its disappointing but don't agree that the FD is solely responsible for on-field performance. Fitness and injuries are critical. Our injury management has been poor since the end of 2021. If you send players out to play that are unfit or injured then either they don't perform to the standard (ie our entire team from mid 2022) or exacerbate the injury and miss lots of time (ala Clarry, Spargo etc). A review absolutely should include our medical/fitness departments and the CEOs role in resourcing and managing those departments. If the CEO does the review it will be a whitewash.

No that is not a fact. A possible scenario is Tracc confidentially raised the issue about standards and stated if he was not contracted he would leave. Club leaks this to Tom Morris. It gets reported, Tracc gets angry and the stand-off begins and it turned into a total firestorm, with Tracc trying to then find a way out. Does that mean Tracc is the catalyst for raising the issue? Or is the leak of confidential discussions the catalyst. I would argue the latter. The media wrote a lot of unsubstantiated stuff from "anonymous sources" and only towards the end identified the source for the Brand Petracca stuff. Both Morris and Barrett publicly identified the Brand Petracca stuff was leaked from inside the club and not Tracc. The club leaked other stuff trying to discredit Tracc. I have my suspicions as to why the media sought to clarify this. Bring on the review.

The 2020 strategic plan definitely should have had a goal to release another when the first one finished in 2023. Probably the most simple one to achieve as well. They could have just changed the dates.

Pies had one in 2017. Missed a flag by a flukey Dom Sheed kick in 2018.

Shoutout to @binman When everyone was saying the swans were gone 4 weeks ago he was saying they were loading…. That last quarter was something else. First time GWS have lost a 4th qtr when leading at 3qtr time under Adam Kingsley.

Zone defence through the middle of the ground in the absence of F50 pressure is absolutely dead. Mitchell killed it against us in 2022. He is an absolutely elite coach even though the stats are yet to demonstrate it.

I would add: High Performance Management/Medical Management Our fitness this year has not been as good as prior years. In my opinion, our fitness/medical management in 2022 cost us the flag that year. No one could get near us in the first half of games. This is not a personal indictment on our Chief Medical Officer, as I am sure she is a very good doctor and will be an even better one as she gets more experience. But she was appointed Chief Medical Officer of MFC in 2020, and at that time had not finished sportsmed training (From her bio - "she commenced her specialty training in Sports Medicine in 2016 and completed it in 2021"). I think a lot of the poor decisions that have been made re injuries are not helped by the issues/manner of dealing with the previous doctor, the AFL culture around playing injured, and the relative inexperience of the replacement.

I think it’s a very short bow. It’s fact that both Damien Barrett and Tom Morris said the brand Petracca [censored] came from inside the club and not Tracc or his team. If that’s a lie then the club should sue them. It’s also fact that it was reported that Tracc told the leaders the problem was the players, and he told the players the problem was the leaders. Was that made up, sourced from Tracc, or a leak? In your opinion did ANBs manager leak ANBs announcement? People stay with an organisation for a lot of reasons. Law firms get a bad rap about toxic culture and misogyny. But people still stay. They have formed close friendships with some colleagues, get paid well, think things will improve, concerned things are no better elsewhere etc. You’re welcome to your view about our culture. I won’t be convinced all is well or that Tracc is the problem after the events of the last month.