Watson11

But the club recognises we are not going anywhere with the 2025 list, and it’s about building for 3-4 years time. Would you prefer Clarry or JV to be setting the standards for Langford, Lindsay, Windsor etc

Where do you rank the 2003 draft. Most of the high picks seemed to be busts. How was it viewed prior to the draft? It just shows how hit and miss drafts are, even for the footy industry. 2014 yielded Tracc, Angus, De Goey, Moore, Heeney, Jake Lever, Touk Miller, Dale, Caleb Daniel, Maynard, Andrew’s, Ed Langdon and a host of others still playing 12 years later. In hindsight probably one of the stronger drafts ever.

At GC Humphrey is in a position like Raynor. He’ll be a forward with low mid minutes. Is he happy to be a role player at GC or does he want to be one of the guys. If we aren’t offering him a midfield role and money we are zero chance. I suspect King can see our midfield being built around Langford and Humphrey for the next 5 years. After all, it’s his third year and if you compare his and Traccs third year (2018) it stacks up extremely well (uncanny similarity). And he’s a year younger.

And I’m not from an Italian family (although my wife is), but even youngest sons wives can clash with mother in laws.

Except that Christian is the youngest in the family.....

Only in the demonland universe where Tracc is apparently a selfish git whose toxic for culture, can’t kick, and will never get back to his best.

I haven’t been on demonland since last night. Last thing I read was posters requesting Andy to remove Clayton Oliver’s name from the thread title. Anything worth reading in the 40 pages I haven’t read yet?

I’m in the minority but I put most of the breakdown on the club and a smaller amount on Tracc. But the club has reset with a new president, ceo, and coach, but the residual player rift created last year hasn’t gone away. The club had massive leadership issues from September 2021 onwards that created a toxic environment. By internally calling them out Tracc seemed to get thrown under the bus by the club and even teammates. Maybe Tracc was over sensitive to how he was treated. But the resulting rift with teammates is too big and it’s best for everyone to move on. Probably the low point last year was the private meeting to sort out issues that was leaked to Sam McLure. That’s probably too big a breach of trust to truly get back to normal. Tracc didn’t leak it. I doubt the culprit from the leadership group owned up but wouldn’t know. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/petracca-airs-grievances-in-private-meeting-of-dees-leaders-20240828-p5k60z.html I’m sure the players also felt like trust had been broken by Tracc. I mean they were reading in the press that Tracc was telling management he had a problem with them. But that was on management who leaked the private conversations Tracc had with them about issues amoung the playing group. Our window shut this year. It was an unbelievable rebuild by Roos/Goodwin and Jackson. But we are 4-5 years until Langford et al are 24-25 years old and peaking. Kossie will still be 29 and the window maybe reopens then if the club acknowledges where we are at. It’s best the club trade Tracc and get something in return that helps us peak in 4-5 years, not next year. Everything now should be about being a contender in 4-5 years. The new club management seems to be handling it professionally. Some supporters not so much. What happened at Hawthorn with Rioli not attending grand final reunions is sad, and must make those reunions feel really hollow for that club. It will be a sad, sad outcome if Tracc doesn’t come back to the club for premiership reunions. Best we thank him for his unbelievable service, acknowledge the breakdown is irretrievable, and move on. If he doesn’t get traded, just remember Papley wanted out of Sydney but was welcomed back by supporters.

You should really just start calling him the Bont. As to leadership, the dogs lost an absolute gem in Dunkley because of the issues. And I know of a high profile player who was all but signed up with the Dogs until the leadership group took him out. He signed with Hawthorn. Leadership is not sticking around a [censored] culture long term.

You do realise Tracc had to board a flight in Melbourne around 80 minutes before he landed in Adelaide. If the camera crews were at Melbourne airport or if it was 1975 you might wonder but not these days.

Players come and go so they are a small part of it. I blame Judd Mcvee. It’s been all downhill since he got drafted at the end of 2021!

Lamb became list manager in October 2019. A year after the Hogan trade.

Hate to nit pick, but that doesn’t seem right. So I just checked wheeloratings and at least in that site he is 92nd for defenders score involvement’s. Just as well I am on a train with nothing better to do than scroll through 25 pages of players ranked by SIs.

It’s idiotic until we have a generational player coming through father son. I don’t agree with trading for the same pick. It should be points but need at least the same round pick to take someone in the first round, and the low picks are pretty much worthless so they should have almost no points. Ashcroft should have cost at least Brisbanes first (they had pick 14 I think) and points from second round picks and lower picks to move up to pick 2. Fletcher also went first round but lower. If Brisbane wanted him they should have had to have 2 first round picks in that draft. The afl are just useless though.

Everyone knew Brisbane needed points for that draft. Blame the list managers at the Dogs, Geelong, Hawthorn (x2), and Adelaide who all did stupid trades to allow Brisbane to accumulate enough draft points through meaningless low draft picks. If the other clubs refused to hand Will Ashcroft to them on a platter then they probably only have the draft points to recruit one of Ashcroft or Fletcher.

You’d think Ron Barassi was leaving. Judd had a poor 2025. His 1st and 2nd years were good but he came into the best backline in the game. A lot easier than debuting at North. He may or may not turn out to be a good player, but being ranked 426th in the AFL this year was actually a liability.

Let’s face it. The board (mostly gone) and Pert (gone) oversaw a mess and toxic environment that probably led Tracc to lose trust in teammates and vice versa. Tracc and teammates were reading in the media that Tracc was telling players that management were the problem, and was telling management the players were the problem. Tracc didn’t leak that and it’s culture killing. It’s no real surprise to me how bad we were this year and no real surprise that Tracc and maybe other players are ambivalent to staying or going. The positive is that Smith, Guerra, and King are a reset and if they are any good have an opportunity to regroup the players and lead the club out of the last 4 years of death spiral.

You are kidding. In 2022 we lost 8 games after going 10-0. We led at half time in 6 of them, and trailed by less than a goal in the other 2.

The Sparrow draft was a good draft. Walsh (pre injury), Rankine, Rozee, Butters, King brothers, Bailey Smith, Blakey, Quaynor, Bobby Hill, and plenty of lower picks that have played 100 games.

That’s not absurd. We won only 7 games. We beat Freo by 10 points. Tracc wasn’t our best but he had 8 score involvements, behind only Max and Kozzie that day. We beat Brisbane by 11 points. Tracc had 31 disposals, 9 clearances and our second most score involvements. We probably don’t win without him. Beside those wins we beat hardly anyone. WC twice, Richmond once, North once, and Sydney easily. We win those without Tracc. But if we want to jump up the ladder we need to beat better teams. Without Traccs score involvements (he was involved in 30% of our scores in 25 which is his worst return since 2019), we are miles off. That said, as much as I love Tracc as a player, our next flag won’t include Tracc so I’m ok if we trade with a 5 year view to contending again. I’m also ok if Tracc stays and helps fast track the younger players. I suspect the club is the same.

Fagan doesn’t talk about learnings after every loss, but after 2021 they were 1-5 in finals and since they are 10-3. Hope it’s 11-3 next week. Considering they were wooden spooners in his first year and bottom 4 second, it’s been an extraordinary coaching effort.

I agree. They are drilled to play a slow conservative transition game. They are the slowest in the afl for ball movement by a long way. That’s coaching. You could see how good they can be when they have to move the ball quickly to score like last night in the last qtr. Even going way back to the game against us in 2022.

Regardless of the issues that we from the outside can only guess about, Tracc had a down season compared to 2020-24. But he was still ranked #6 in the afl for score involvements per game, and involved in over 30% of our scores. If Tracc isn’t at MFC next year we will be going backwards before we start improving again. Maybe we need to take that medicine anyway because any objective person would know that based on the age profile of our A graders our window was closing at the end of 25. We will be like a Dustyless Richmond if Tracc is gone. 2025 was a glimpse and we were like Richmond circa 2021 onwards when Dusty’s output dropped.

The weighting actually depends on where you take the mark as well. A contested mark taken in the goal square is worth a lot. The same mark taken at full back isn’t worth much.

If you took goal kicking away, Max and Xerri would have almost identical player ratings. Max lost around 2.1 or maybe more points a game because of his goal kicking. Xerri isn’t a scrubber though. He is a very good ruckman. Gets his own ball. More clearances than Max and a large part of why North are top 4 at scoring from stoppage.