Vogon Poetry

There are a number of issues here not least the cost of accommodating 40 or more people in Darwin for the period you want. The AFL fund a certain amount for each interstate trip but it's up to the Club how to spend it. It would only be based on one nights accommodation, or at least it was. Also I think you might be overestimating the benefits of a warm climate.

Heaven help us Sue if the AFL had found us not guilty. We'd still be fumbling around with Schwab and Connolly and most likely have had 2 or 3 coaches since. No, they did us a big favour.

I've had a bit of time lately and have watched a lot of our games again - admittedly the one's we've won - and I've marvelled at the skill and effectiveness of this kid. And yet not many are talking about him, here or in the media. His hands are elite in tight, rarely does he fumble, his vision and decision making are elite - so often making not only good decisions but the best decisions. His skills by foot and hand are terrific, he rarely make a mistake. And his contested ball work is excellent as evidenced by 18 contested possessions on Sunday. In the latest MFC website article Rawlings talks about McDonald, Wagner and Oliver but there is no mention of Trac and yet he's been equally impressive. When he was recruited I was expecting "freak" like moments but we haven't had many. What we've had is a player who does all the ordinary things very well and then just teases us with some really good things - long goals, contested marks and slick handballs. Everyone, including me, loves Clarry but in my mind Trac is level pegging and vitally important to us. He just doesn't seem to get as much recognition, hence this thread.

Without wanting to open old wounds: The AFL gave us the money to pay out the contract extension given to Schwab by McLardy shortly before the finding of bringing the game into disrepute. I think they also gave us enough money to pay out Connolly and Neeld. If you recall we were running deficits despite the generosity of the Foundation Heroes. The AFL decided to punish us by way of fine rather than draft picks (which have been applied to most other clubs who have done wrong - Adelaide and Essendon of recent times. Oh, and if you think we didn't tank I admire your loyalty. Two years of draft pick penalty and we'd still be bottom 4. They gave us PJ who I think in reality has done much more for us than they thought possible. He's been magnificent. He would never have taken the job if the AFL hadn't backed us financially because without the money and draft picks which would normally have been taken away from us we had no chance of recovery. The AFL gave us the benefit of the doubt on the FA compensation for Frawley. It could easily have been an end of first rounder. Look, the AFL gave us a pretty ordinary draw this year. We've been on the wrong end of MRP decisions (although Viney might have been lucky given the decision in Zeibell's case). But until this year we haven't earned Friday night slots. But we do get two marquee games - ANZAC eve and Queen's Birthday. None of the "lesser" clubs get 2. And frankly when it comes to Friday nights when we were terrible I didn't want them. PJ has made us into a good club and we will now get a more favourable commercial draw. I know it's not politically correct to like the AFL here (or most other places for that matter) but they deserve recognition for keeping us afloat when it would have been easy to let us go under and making a large number of macro decisions which have helped us greatly.

And it was the AFL who handed us PJ and financially backed him and the Club.

Last week you were suggesting Frost plus early picks for Lever and Jones. Your view was TMac wouldn't stay as a long term forward. You also thought Frost, Macs x 2 shouldn't play in the same back line because of their disposal skills. I thought it was an absolutely reasonable position to take although I didn't necessarily agree with all aspects of it. On the weekend we saw some really interesting performances. Has that caused you to rethink your views? My concern is that if we use our early picks to get the Lever deal done we are spending our leverage to improve an area we are well served so whilst we are better it's a high price to pay for the improvement. My view is we really need some class outside speed and I'd be searching for it far and wide. Kelly is an obvious one but I'm wondering if there are other options at other clubs. Does anyone have any ideas?

How do you know? Are you guessing or do you have a source?

What did you think of the Carlton supporter abusing Oliver? Or is that to subtle?

On the contrary. I think it was a Dorothy Dixer. Goodwin wanted the question. He wanted to address the question of culture and he expressed his views with such clarity and force it was like a prepared statement to the footy world. He wanted to show the footy world that he is in it with his players but that he is their leader and he sets the standards. He's outstanding with his clarity of communication. From the outside he appears to be an outstanding coach and the players appear to love him. A great get by Jackson, Mahoney and Roos.

It won't be only money that attracts him. That will play a part but it will be one of the last things discussed. If he wants to come the money will take care of itself.

Interesting votes. Murphy got a 5 and a 4. No other player got more than five which means the coach who gave Murphy 4 gave either Curnow, TMac and Trac 5. The other coach didn't think they were in the top 5 players. Am I missing something?

The debate/discussion between Binman and ProDee on how the Lever trade would impact our team is one of the best exchanges I've read on Demonland for some time. I didn't get involved then as they presented their views in a way that extra commentary was unnecessary. The weekend provided more fuzziness to any potential trade. Frost played an outstanding game and showed some fairly unique footy attributed for one player. Extreme athleticism and excellent footy skills. There were no glaring footy errors that I recall. Tommy Mac showed a level of competence and confidence forward that suggest maybe a permanent forward role is possible. Lever was outstanding after quarter time for Adelaide. What team wouldn't take him if he wanted to come. I don't shudder the way ProD does when any of our tall backs have the ball. I think Oscar's disposal is much better than represented here and whilst Frost doesn't have huge finesse he very effective and improving quickly. But having said that I love Lever but if he wanted to come it would be great but expensive. If he wants to come to Melbourne city (as with Fyfe and Kelly) it's difficult to understand why we wouldn't be a very desirable destination for all the reasons we know. ProD's suggestion is we attract Lever and Z Jones and use Frost as a trade plus draft picks and other garnish if appropriate. But given the recent performance of our talls and assuming that is maintained and improved (T Mac is new to forward play and Oscar and Frost are improve almost by the game) how important is Lever? Would the incremental benefit be worth the cost or should we look to use what we have to attract (say) Kelly? IMO he would provide what we don't have whereas Lever is just incrementally better. Did the weekends performances change anyone's views?

He goes to ground a lot trying to lay a tackle or compete for the ball. It's more a lung trying to make up for a lack of pace.

I didn't say it wasn't a good game, I just said it wasn't an influential one. And I'm a long way from expecting him to be one of our elites, believe me. You won't see anywhere that I've said he's not worth his spot in the team. I've said that many here overrate his influence and that he has a short shelf life. Interestingly now that I, along with a very few others, have questioned his football output there is a growing awareness of his footballing weaknesses. I'm projecting that he is closer to the end than many think. I don't rate his on field leadership as much as others but I fully accept that yesterday in the last minute he was very smart. I was one of the first to call out Lumumba and was roundly criticised for it. I might be right or I might be wrong with Lewis but his situation is similar to Trengove - he is slow by AFL standards and despite all the other attributes he has that is a deal breaker when it reaches a certain point.

Jordie was very smart in the last minute but was aided by some of the worst defence you're likely to see. How did Carlton not cover him? But his playing days are fast coming to an end. He struggles to keep up, he goes to ground, he doesn't apply pressure and he's losing his awareness and his elite disposal under pressure. Had it not been for his final 60 seconds it was just a game from Jordie and was secondary to players like Oliver, Petracca, Frost, Jetta, McDonald, ANB and a few others. It's indicative that his finest moment had nothing to do with footy skills. I still think that he'll struggle for a game next season, all the signs are there.

Come on Jordie today is the day, prove me wrong and rub my nose in it.

Frankly it not one that causes me any concern and I'll leave others to ponder how it could be improved.

Of course he set out to hit him, he had a clenched fist. He threw it. Did he mean to hit him in the head? Who knows but he did and he caused Mills to be concussed.

I hope you're right Don except he played through the middle on Friday after half time and couldn't get near it.

I certainly agree he's playing a more outside role. One could be excused for confusing it with self preservation.

It is to you but not to me. I was mainly responding to those who felt we didn't go in to bat for Bugg and should have done more. You talk a lot of Bugg's intentions but you don't know, you're just guessing. Only Bugg knows what his intentions were. I'm unconcerned about the length of the penalty, I'm concerned that he did it and hurt the Club. You and I are concerned about different things. I'm concerned about the Club, you more about Bugg getting an extra two weeks. That's garnish to the main issue The Club is much bigger than a player. It's a worn out cliche but in this situation it's spot on for me.

I don't think it will be solved because many things are open to interpretation in any incident. I think it's just a realistic position. I'm not saying I support or understand many of the MRP's finding but the varying opinion of many people on the same incident just demonstrate the concept of consistency is very difficult to achieve. What is consistent to one is inconsistent to others.

I'll call Viney last week very lucky when compared to the Ziebell incident. You win some and lose some. I stated early that I thought Bugg should get 4 but it's garnish to the bigger issue.

My anger is that Bugg put us in this position and my interest is the Club handling it as well as they can which I think they have. MRP inconsistency has been around for ever and won't be solved.

He's had 22 tackles in 11 games. In 24 last year he had 100. It's not a flattering comparison.