Jarka

Generally he's been rated in the top 5, top 3 by some. It's fair to say he's in the top couple for mids but a lot will depend on a club's perspective, such as who a club rates a ruckman like Grundy. At this stage it appears to be reasonable to have Viney in the top 3, along with Whitfield & Stringer, but as well all know a lot can change in 5 months.

Checkout these two threads, a heap of great info http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/my-top-50-2012-draft-now-with-mock-draft.931219/ http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2012-mock-draft.901363/ You very quickly work out who are the posters to take notice of and those to ignore.

I can't see us finishing any higher than 16th. North, Port, Doggies and Brisbane all are three games ahead of us AND a massive amount of % which effectively means we have to get an extra win to leap frog any of them, also they have to not win again for the rest of the year. So, let's presume we finish as is in 16th, that's picks 3 & 4. Will GCS or GWS bid for Viney? Will be interesting to see it pan out

Sorry, but we're not going to get another 8+ wins for the season. I'm confident of our future but if we get another 5 or 6 then we'll have done very well. Like your enthusiasm though

Very true.

It's an important point W_J. Watts has continues with an education this season, it started with a frank assessment from Neeld to work hard in the pre-season, to getting things right in the VFL. I see his current role as an extension of his education, a couple of weeks ago he was playing in the VFL, now he has a BOG under his belt playing in defense. Who knows we he'll be in 6 weeks time.

Thanks P-Man, I only saw a brief glimpse of the segment. RPFC I'm sorry RPFC, I didn't follow the 'honourable losses' argument because I was interested, I just responded to the post about 10+ goal losses. I take it your comment was 'tongue in cheek'? (Bit slow on the uptake today) I know I'm going to cop it for this but imho our win/loss ratio is largely irrelevent this year, just as long as we get the odd win to keep the masses happy. This year is about setting the foundations for the future and ensuring the right behaviours are being followed. I heard Neeld explain why Collingwood is successful as a club, and it's because as soon as you walk in the door you know what the expectations are and if you don't achieve them then you're quickly left behind. I am truly excited about our future and feel free to laugh at me for it, I don't care.

Apparently North has the most 10 goal losses over the last couple of years, surprisingly we're about the 4th or 5th worst team, I expected us to be bottom two. Source: The Couch, Sheahan was discussing it.

As the team gets more used to the game plan and it becomes instinctive then their confidence will grow, it's just a matter of nailing the basics. The offensive part will come later, and when it comes they'll score more heavily. Yes it's frustrating now but the pay off in the future will be worth it.

I was a player sponsor during the Daniher era and whilst my player didn't say anything negative towards Daniher he did say once that there was a lack of communication from the FD. It was at the end of the season and he was out of contract but didn't know if the club wanted him or if he was in their plans at all. This was in the early part of his playing days and he was struggling with injury to cement a place in the team, he came across as being a bit frustrated no, eager and anxious to get on with the following year and just wanted to know where he stood. Once again, I want to stress that the player never, ever made any negative comments about Daniher. I know that he was very happy at the club and ended up having a pretty good career but I remember at the time I thought it was a bit strange but didn't think much about it.

McDonald was clearly a terrible error, but Bruce has done nothing since to suggest he would have been anymore useful than the poor disposal he's dished out for years. You're also doing a bit of rewriting history here. Robbo's last season was abysmal and Yze and White were also obviously ready to leave the game. No one can go on forever. I completely agree with you on Jnr though, it's the gift that just keeps on giving. Miller's leadership and work rate on the track would have been handy.

We don't have enough information to make this conclusion. For example, the other side of the coin was that the senior players efforts over the pre-season were so poor that the FD had no choice but to dump them from the leadership group, how could you reward non-performers with leadership roles? Perhaps the senior players lost the respect of the FD.

It's amazing that two people can read the same sentence and get two completely different interpretations. Firstly, we deserve a whack because we're crap. Actually, we're worse than crap, we're worse than both GWS and GCS. Now, let's get to what Thomas wrote, and he's exactly correct. Look at the message he's saying, every single one of them is highlighting what the problem is, it's all about the players and their lack of effort. Everything he's saying is true, we need to start acting and playing like victims and go hunting. Sadly, I don't think most of our senior players are capable of it though.

In the first half they smash us and in the second they finish us off.

Mate, I'm not saying he's a great coach, that he was well respected at the pies. Who knows, perhaps Malthouse made him look better than he really is, honestly at this stage I have no idea anymore whether it's the players or coaches or both.

Neeld was highly respected and sought after in the AFL prior to his appointment as our coach.

Davey has one kick...

I'm absolutely gutted with how bad we are, I just can't believe how terrible we've become. Drop marks, slipping over, poor disposal, poor decision making, it just goes on and on. I'm finding it difficult to watch our games now, it just makes me so angry. What happened to all of our talent? WTF is going on with the players? I've backed the FD this season because I believe that we're headed in the right direction but it's getting harder and harder to be patient when they serve up crap like this.

It's a good point BH, there's no point attacking the game plan because we haven't seen it properly yet. It will take time for the players to be 'reprogrammed' and for many of them they're only now learning how to play at a real AFL standard. It's still not instinctive to them yet.

One thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread (or perhaps I missed it) is that we are only now being able to compete with the better clubs in terms of the amount spent in the footy and recruiting department. We just haven't had the cashflow to be able to compete, but now we do (thanks Jimmy). We have been far behind the rest of the competition with our fitness and it's crazy to think that we can close the gap in just one season. This season is a reality check for everything about our club. We have to improve in every single area if we are to survive and I believe that Neeld has the knowledge, temperament and energy to make the hard decisions and bruise ego's which will make us a better club. I don't see what happens within the club but it appears that there's a group of players who've had it very easy for a long time who may be reluctant to change, I also have a feeling that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Not a rebuild, but we do need a tweak of the list. Our over 23's are still a problem.

The admin is trying to make changes though, the increase expenditure in the footy department proves it. Also remember that we've never been able to afford massive dollars spent in that area, it's only now that we have that luxury and who is responsible for that? I'm not an expert in the science of modern fitness (actually rank amateur would be an accurate description) but I've heard from various sources that a fitness program can take several seasons to develop and improve players. Our fitness has been a problem for a long time and we've been far behind the better clubs. I believe that we were so far behind the rest of the competition that there was no quick fix for Neeld.

I was never a 'hater' but I'm happy to admit that I thought he was a wasted pick, I'm also more than happy to have it 'stuck it up me' for the premature assessment He's not there yet but you can see him gaining confidence with each game, it's been enjoyable to watch.

The thing that I liked most about his game last night was where he got his touches, right in the heat of the battle and he definitely looks [censored] across the chest. A couple of times last night Ihad to take a double take because I couldn't believe my own eyes that he could win the contested footy like that. I've previously written him off and stated that anything he produces will be a bonus, I fear (in a good way) that he's going to make me look like a bit of a goose.

I've noticed that if something goes wrong he tends to go into his shell for awhile, I think that it's mostly a confidence issue with him and as he gets bigger and stronger he'll get better. Being the no.1 pick has not helped his development at all.