stevethemanjordan

Yeh. Nab Challenge mate. Calm your farm.

Great post. I think those four highlighted points are the ones that will determine how quickly we can improve this year and I think the NAB challenge games should be used to showcase which of White/Wagner will play on the other flank to Salem. For as long as I can remember, we've always struggled with kicking skills from back of centre field. During slow play build up mainly. I've never known a team to struggle for as long as we have. On the counter we can look good, but surely Hawthorn have shown the entire AFL how important it is to have players who can use the footy really well by hand and by foot. They've got them all over the ground. Salem/Vince and White/Wagner on each flank is what I'd like to see. I've seen enough of Grimes and given that Lamumba won't be featuring early and Melksham not at all, I'd like to see White and Wagner get a feel for it.

Love your optimism, but can barely see us hitting 40k let alone 45 this year. Hathorn's membership growth from the early-mid 2000's to now has been greatly helped by the recruitment and development of genuine stars of the competition in players such as Franklin and Rioli. Those two have gifted Hathorn a new generation of supporters and members but have also inspired hope and change over the journey for the die-hards. Of course their consistent improvement on-field as a footy club has contributed to their membership growth. For us to get to 50k over the next couple of seasons will require the following: Hogan to sign a long-term deal with us and to be universally considered the best key forward in the competition. A star. Another couple of genuine stars to blossom from the following group: Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Salem etc. We actually need this to happen if we want to see long-term success and long-term membership growth. I can only see us getting close to 40k this year if we start the season with a bang. As for breakout year, one would have to say Salem if he stays on the park for the year. Has had pretty close to a full pre-season and has the talent and the competitiveness to match.

Yeh big fella I do. It's 'reasons' though. Not 'reason'. You're pretty much painting it black and white. And I refuse to. Selwood is great. Jones is great. One has been blessed with having a really easy path to reach his potential as a player, the other has had an enormously challenging one. Looking at each player in isolation, (without the stats and accolades) I honestly can't see what Selwood possesses that Jones doesn't. They both have a very similar skill set. Combative, competitive and contested ball winning machines. What would you say Selwood unequivocally possesses over Jones in any given attribute? Regardless of mother[censored] stats bro. Just imagine them playing. In your head.

Yes. You're pointing out what the stats say and the accolades he's received. I'm arguing that much of this is to do with the environment he found himself in once drafted, the group of leaders he played under from a young age, the quality coaches that developed him and the immediate success that surrounded him at Geelong which brings about an increase at every emotional and feeling level. Confidence and motivation. Two things he would never have had to think twice about from his development years at Geelong. Yes he was a higher pick than Nathan and perhaps he is a bit better than Jones in some areas. But the gap isn't as big as what you make out. Put them head-to-head in a couple of training drills and it'd be more even than you think.

I'm almost certain none of Selwood, Pendles or Fyfe would have been able to drag us over the line for a win in any of the years from 2011-13 such was the state of our list and club. Draft an 18 year old Selwood to the MFC in his draft year and I can guarantee he wouldn't be seen as the player he is today. Draft Nathan Jones to Geelong at the top of their power and I can guarantee he'd be valued more highly as a player amongst wider AFL community. Regardless of all of that, the 'star' debate is a waste of time. It's like arguing on the best Ice Cream flavour. Everyone has their own flavour. It's subjective. Not only that, many other variables come to play. For example, the Selwood Vs Jones debate. Selwood will obviously possess the better stats in almost every category due to playing in such a successful team during such a successful era. Jones the complete opposite. His stats even during his best years individually will suffer due to playing in a far less successful and competitive side over such a long period. That is one example. Geelong have suffered since the departure of Ablett and ageing and retirements of midfielders Bartel, Johnson, Kelly and Corey. Without them, Selwood hasn't been able to win games off his own boot and his form really wasn't that consistently good this year. Selwood and Jones are in my mind very similar in playing style, attributes as well as height and weight and if we're isolating them as players, I don't think it's fair to say that Selwood is better than Jones or vice versa. However if we were comparing Fyfe to Jones, or Pendlebury to Jones then it's a different story. They're very different players. Finishing on Oliver vs Jones - Comparing the two from the age of 18 I'd say that it's obvious Oliver has more to offer in terms of attribute diversity, however it remains to be seen whether he has the application and will to get the best out of himself in the way that Jones has been hellbent on doing his entire career. Like ProDee, I'd hope and expect under our now rock-solid environment and development team that Oliver will be better player than Jones.

Talk about sweating the small stuff.

After the siren: Wines leaves Port stranded on third base. Ashley Browne may just be trying to ruffle some feathers, but it's interesting nonetheless ... From everything I've heard with Ollie, he's a happy camper in the South-West but this will certainly spark some enquiries. Wines at Melbourne and Toumpas at the Power? #howitwasmeanttobe

Which is why we should be worshiping players like N Jones at our club. Leaders who are loyal in their very makeup and have the desire to inspire change at a club. It subtly filters through and younger players like Gus Brayshaw who has been clinging to Jones since his arrival will be profoundly impacted by traits like these. In fact, you can quote me on this. Providing our club remains strong on and off-field, if it's up to Angus, he'll be a one club player for our club. It's in his makeup and he has leaders like Jones rubbing off on him. Players like Howe and Frawley are not game changers. They're celebrities. Minnows who are more interested in the lifestyle of the game. Which is why you see so much inconsistency in performance and effort. Viney, Brayshaw, Stretch, Neal-Bullen. They're of a similar breed. We're certainly on the right path.

What the {censored] is going on with Brayshaw? Where is the kid at?

The Parish Vs Oliver scenario is serious mind-[censored]. I feel we've witnessed this type of scenario so many times in the past with results not going our way for various reasons. The old MFC would have definitely made it difficult for a player like Parish to flourish and develop the right way. But we are a different club now and I have to keep telling myself that. Having a body as slight as his will definitely limit his impact early on and I'm sure we'll hear the same 'merry-go-round' of comments in regards to Oliver's impact early in his career. Bigger body, streak of aggression etc. The fact Oliver missed out on the Vic Country side doesn't bother me. We've seen quality AFL players come through without having played in the champs. But Parish clearly does get the tick over him with the whole 'body of work' thing. It's a conundrum. It's hard to see what kind of player Parish will become. With his height, body shape and attributes. As a supporter of a club who has contributed to the failure of so many previous high draft picks with similar underdeveloped bodies, I'd almost demand he spend the entire year at Casey learning and developing his body. They're the kinds of kids that need that first year as a prep year. And they get it at the strong clubs. I understand Parish is more of an inside player than players we've drafted in previous years who have struggled to impact. But coming into the AFL with a body like his, we're going to have to play the patience game again. Which is a hard ask for Melbourne supporters. Especially for a potential number 3 draft pick. It really is a situation we've seen so many times. I'm leaning toward Oliver. I think the MFC's desire to draft bigger bodied, harder at the contest and aggressive players might override Parish's 'body of work' in this case. But fark me I have no idea what's going to happen.

Another who thinks Curnow is overrated. I see him slipping.

Back to Curnow... Doing such a thing three days from the draft is clearly not ideal and reflects incredibly poorly on the bloke's intelligence. It seems strange that so many on here believe we'll be taking him given the way our club now recruits. It's been fairly well publicised that one of the more important attributes we look for in a player is their character and personality and I find it very difficult to believe we'd take a player like Curnow at pick 3 or 7 because he lacks in that particular area. I am not doubting his talent as a player, although I don't share the 'hype', but again, if you look at the state of our list and the type of players we're bringing in who will eventually become the fabric, Curnow certainly doesn't fit the bill for us at a top 10 pick. Still hoping Parish and Weideman will be the ones.

Didnt want him to start with. Now he's given me another reason to not want him.

The more I read from you, the more I'm certain you and 'Hogan's Heroes' are related.

Seconded.

Francis doesn't have an issue with the physicality of the sport. In fact, one of his strengths is his competitiveness and aggression. The complete opposite of Watts. Not only that. Jack Watts was a key forward for the entirety of his under 18's year whereas Francis has been used as a utility for much of this year. Neither are the foil for Jesse. But the Weid certainly could be.

This.He had an OPERATION in May. An ankle op. Imagine how much time he'd have spent off it... Why do posters look at these numbers and think it's the 'be-all-end-all'. Fark. The bloke is a supreme talent. Clubs just want to know that his body will hold up under what I can only imagine would be a seriously stressful environment for the human body. Especially a body that has had some history with serious injury. That's all we'll be looking at. And if we deem him a safe bet at pick 3, he'll have all the pre-seasons in the world to get his 'beep test' up to scratch for all you number lovers. This is not a [censored] potential Olympic marathon runner's draft. It's the AFL draft. And this bloke is a Full Forward.

Hasn't played since May this year after having his second bout of ankle surgery so I've heard. Not only that, he's a stay at home Full Forward. Yet posters are concerned with his beep test and 20 metre sprint test results? Absurd. Clubs would be happy in knowing that he was able to complete these tests. Simply. There's nothing else to it. WTF were y'all expecting? It's a tick off the list in my eyes. Had he not been able to complete the tests due to persisting injuries, it'd be different. But it's not. Wonder what Jake Stringer and Lever would have scored in these tests 6 months after serious injuries...

Sanderson seems to really rate Curnow. It'll be interesting to see who Essendon take. To be honest, the thought of taking Weideman at 3 and the best available mid at 7 wouldn't bother me. Perhaps we even go for a Bonner or Milera instead to compliment what is now a pretty 'contested heavy' midfield. Can't stop thinking about a Weideman/Hogan forward line. We'll pick up mids down the track. Prestia is still coming home remember.

This is what it comes down to and is the reason I'm saying he might make a move up to CHF. If Weideman happens to be that elite stay-at-home FF and we happen to pick him up then we'll most surely see a switch? Hogan's attributes best suit CHF. The reason he played out of the goal square this year is because of our lack of talent in the forward line and because we have nobody else who could play either position as well as him. And we needed to score this year. The scenario relies on us drafting an elite talent who can be a really dangerous stay at home FF. And I'm hoping it's Weideman. If so, it only makes sense to play Hogan in his naturally best suited position. CHF. If we don't find that talent, then I agree we'll have to play him exclusively close to goal.

Clearly not everyone sees that. If they did, they wouldn't be arguing the importance of having the 50 to himself.

I think there are many who think he's best used out of the goal square. Especially those who insist we draft mids with these two picks.

FF Kennedy Weideman Garlett HF Petracca Hogan Kent I might be completely off here, but part of the reason I think we'd take Weideman if available is because at some point I believe Hogan will make a move to CHF. Dawes and Pederson clearly don't cut it as quality CHF let alone FF which is why Hoges played much of the year out of the goal square. But given his talents and attributes, I reckon he could offer a whole lot more if played at CHF. The amount of times I saw Melbourne players ignore a leading Dawes was actually quite embarrassing for the guy. Unfortunately he just doesn't have the hands, foot skills nor the smarts to play that position well enough and Pedo is really just on our list for depth. Hogan at CHF would be near impossible to stop. His tank is enormous. His field kicking is as good as anyone's his size. (Better than most of our midfielders). His marking I don't need to comment on. He would be a nightmare for teams in that position and it would give our mids a whole lot more confidence when on the counter from defence. Weideman is the FF who is aggressive in the air and a goal kicker. No fuss. His attributes best suit the position. Just your stay at home FF. It's clear he'll fill out and be a very big boy too which is important. That's the vision I see. Could be wrong. But I feel like Hogan could be let off his leash if we find that true stay at home FF.

He ran a 3.15 20 metre sprint at the combine. There's my reference. And if you'd like a written one, the poster for 'bound for glory' believes speed is a weakness as well as general footy smarts and positioning. He is only a 'poster' however. As yours were. But you're right. I'd prefer to use my own eyes too. And from the vision I've seen, I don't think he's quick off the mark nor explosive. He has an athletic and lean looking lower half. His legs and glutes are certainly not the build of an explosive or speedy player, but one who excels at running long distances well. Which is backed by his solid beep test and 3km time trial scores. If it's a Matthew Bate kind of speed you're talking then I agree. A slow chu-chu train build up to a speed that's eventually quite impressive. Anyway, enough of that. You like the look of him, I don't. That's it. The reason I would prefer Weideman is purely because he is the more natural forward. Has played the position longer, dominated the position for longer and therefore understands the position better. His football smarts as a forward would be better. Like Curnow he is really strong overhead, but is a true KP forward size at 196 cm and over 90kgs. He's aggressive in the air and the thing about him that I think our recruiting crew and coaches would love is his character and personality. Listen to him speak and he's the kind of guy you want at your club. Strong characters. Something that has clearly been a prerequisite for most of our high end talent since Roos arrived. Nothing. I'm just hoping. If he's selected before 7 then it gets interesting. I'm just assuming/hoping Essendon take Francis and a mid. Gold Coast to take Milera or another MID/HB/HF. Milera perhaps. (Prestia is coming home remember and O'Meara's knees are no sure thing). So at 7 we'll take Weideman.