stevethemanjordan

Don't underestimate the influence an injection of new players can have on a stale, lacklustre group that have been losing badly for several years. The changes to our list have been huge as much as Neeld likes to play it down. Look beyond the 'numbers' Rodan, Byrnes or Dawes will have in the first game they have for our club. The bigger picture has little to do with that. We are changing our culture and mindset. The enthusiasm and inspiration of players has sky rocketed. We have gotten rid of selfish players in Moloney and Green. We are re-learning the work ethic needed to win games of football. This is not just bringing in a few new faces. The MFC are going through consciousness shift. You're blind if you can't see it.

Gysberts will be delisted within a couple of years so I wouldn't be concerned. We've done exactly what we needed to in getting rid of all of those players.

Man I love the offseason....

A-motherhucking-men. Will never forget that first game against Geelong either. It's as if they knew any possession he got would have zero effect on the outcome of the game. I don't think one Geelong player noticed him on the ground. He literally ran around without an opponent all day, won some cheap ball at the stoppages and on the fly. The next thing you know half of demonland think we have another 'superstar' at our club. I will be surprised if gysberts lasts more than a couple of years on North's list. One of the most overrated young players going around.

We can. And we have. Must.Get.Pick.4.Right.

Spot on.

Hodge has versatility. He can play a variety of positions and one of those happens to be starting in the square. He can still be considered a midfielder as he's played through the midfield throughout much of his career. His ability to win the contested ball is up there with the best in the game and his left foot is, and has been, his strongest attribute along with his contested ball winning ability. I am 100% sure that most that have a clue about AFL would be in agreeance. Clearly we have differing opinions on the other players and I stand by my statement that overall, hawthorn's mids have far better kicking skills than ours. Mainly because of Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge when he runs through. Tim, I honestly don't care what you think of my posts. Why don't you ignore me so I don't have to bother replying to someone who it seems has little knowledge when it comes to football. Pass the msg on to your 'like' button sidekick 'Jose' also. X

If toumpas slips to us, I will be the most excited I've been for a long time. Viney, toumpas and hogan in one draft could very well be spoken of for years to come... (I realise we've heard it all before) Let me dream. C'mon football gods.

I'm hoping someday soon, supporters will be making a list of the stars we have on our team. The number of brownlow medallists, number of premiership players, all australians etc etc. Hopefully, then, the lists of age, height, weight etc will stop.

Still can't believe it was him that kicked that checkside goal in the wet this year. Surely it wasn't Bartram? These kinds of injuries are the pits for hard workers like himself. Heart was in my mouth whenever he had the ball in his hands but if the ball was there to be won, he'd never flinch. All the best Clint.

Both fair points. I think I'm just petrified we will pick up someone who will again become mediocre for whatever reasons. I want us to unearth a star midfielder.

And I apologise to BH for saying 'all' Hawthorns mids can use the ball extremely well. Three of their four starting mids can use the ball extremely well. The others are still as good or better than most of ours.

You're an angry guy Tim. I'm sorry. I said he keeps failing to mention the skill of Hawthorn's mids. I'm sorry I didn't isolate Sewell. Even though he seems to be just as effective as Magner, Couch, McKenzie, Bate (last year) for us. Hodge is good? Is that a joke? Lewis and Mitchell are head and shoulders above our mids when it comes to using the pill. I would say Ellis is on par with the the players I mentioned above Smith is an outside runner you goose You have a personal issue with my posts Tim. Why don't we chat about it some place else?

Well you have isolated a word here RP. Ferociousness. I think I know what you're saying. I agree that there are certain players who seem to be absolutely fearless when it comes to playing football. Players that throw themselves at the ball with what seems like no thought for their own safety. Selwood, Campbell Brown, Robinson, (Viney it seems). The only reason Robinson is playing league footy is because of that very attribute. It's his strongest and it's what got him drafted. The thing is, I don't know O'rourke's level of 'ferocity', 'fearlessness', (whatever word you want to insert) for the footy. It's impossible to tell from that highlights reel because nearly all of it is filled with him receiving or kicking, (which to some might mean he doesn't like winning it in close). There are many factors that can contribute to a player's ability to throw himself at the ball and as I've pointed out above, players like Ablett and Pendles were never Kamikaze style players and from their first games of AFL would have been in awe standing next to some of the games greatest and hardest players. But look at both players now RP. Would either of them flinch at a contest? They have built their bodies, hardened their minds and believe that they can beat anyone.

You keep failing to mention the fact that Hawthorn's inside mids can all use the ball extremely well. Wines doesn't have kicking skills like Mitchell, Lewis or Hodge. All of whom play that inside mid role. Same with Sydney to a lesser extent. When it comes to our list, we have lots of players who can win the ball in close, but they can't use it nearly as well as the mids from the two teams you've mentioned. Not only is it that we have a lack of quality kickers, our midfield has also looked bad especially in the Bailey era because of a lack of structure, defensive mindset, spread etc etc. Next year with a more organised group having learnt the basics after year one, it will be interesting to see how our mids go and give us more of an indication of what it is we 'need'.

O'rourke and Wines both stood out in the Champs. I don't know why people continue to say Wines is a surer bet to assimilate better to the AFL than O'rourke. He may not be bumped off the ball as easily, as O'rourke will need longer to develop his body. That's about it though. I am just praying we get it right. I am in the Toumpas and O'rourke camp purely because we have no players on our list that possess that kind of class. They look to be absolute silk. I am of the belief that it's easier to develop a player who is predominately an outside mid into an inside mid if you have the right culture and coaches at a club. It all depends on the attitude of a player. If O'rourke has that desire and hunger to work on getting the best out of himself then I would go for him. Pendlebury, Judd, Ablett, Cotchin, Dangerfield. All of these players started as outside mids with sublime skills, awareness, evasiveness and speed and over the years have been able to develop their inside game through their attitude, coaches/club culture and spending pre-seasons developing their bodies. They're all able to play inside and outside. They can win games off their own boot. They are all stars of the competition because they have so many strings to their bow. If people are comparing Wines to Jobe Watson, I will ask this. How useful is Jobe Watson once the ball is clear of the contest. How punishing is he with his disposal or conversely how often does he let his team mates down with his kicking skills? I admire him and obviously rate the guy. But his outside game isn't going to get any better. He has hit his head on the ceiling. He clearly played the inside mid role better than anyone else this year. But there is a ceiling. And Wines is only being compared to Watson remember. We could only hope Wines would reach Watson's level. In a nutshell: It's easier developing an outside player's inside game as long as their head is in the right place and they have the desire to get the best out of themselves and work extremely hard. (Not Colin Sylvia types). If O'rourke has the attitude and hunger and isn't afraid, get him.

Your continuous ducking and weaving of all I have pointed out is testiment to your inability to admit you made an outlandish, misleading and nonsensical comment about o'rourke and wines. I will not bother replying to your next post as I have a feeling it will be another attempt to make me look like I am the one who doesn't 'get it'. I like you Jose'. I enjoy reading your posts mostly. That one however, I can't say I liked. Kiss. X

Why would they? It's me you're having this argument with. It doesn't make me feel better that the H/S stated the comparison of O'rourke and Cotchin. What would make me feel better is if you would go back and read your first comment which was as follows: "Wines or O'Rourke? Watson or Pendlebury? Can't lose really." Can't lose really? So if one of them turn out to be a dud top 5 pick like so many others have in previous drafts (as history clearly shows), how is it that we can't really lose? In your outlandish comment, you have basically suggested that they will both be players equally as good as each other by comparing them to Watson and Pendlebury, which is of course telling me you know something that nobody else does... How valuable was Cale Morton to us? Do you think Scully will be the next superstar of the game because he went at number 1? How about Jack Watts? There are plenty of others. The point is this Jose', your first comment in which I had a go at you for, was nonsensical. You started by saying we can't really lose, only to end it by saying, 'I'll put my faith in the footy dept.'

I tend to disagree if we are going by the highlights reel of each. I'd say you can see quite clearly that O'rourke has a better kicking technique. It's a lower ball drop and he has a natural and fluent kicking style. Lots of the passes seem to be low trajectory accurate kicks that hit their targets. I also see a turn of speed that I don't see with Wines, (and that's not to say Wines looks slow). It's harder to tell how effective or ineffective Wines' ball use is just by watching his highlights package. To me he seems to have a higher ball drop and the trajectory is therefore higher than that of O'rourke's kicks. Too hard to tell on those vids just how effective he is. Seems to be okay. The thing that I want to know is whether O'rourke doesn't mind winning his own ball at the contest. I'm happy for him to be more of an outside mid, but if there is a contest to be won, I want to see that Trent Cotchin or Patrick Dangerfield-like desire to win the ball. If he has that, that could be the attribute that puts him ahead of Wines for me. However, if he has a Cale Morton approach to a one on one contest, Wines might be the better option. Happy for Todd and co. to call out whoever it may be in a couple of weeks. (as long as they get it right).. Go Dees

I have read both bios from a couple of different sources and there are no such comparisons. You made the comparisons. You didn't say "I read that these boys are compared to Watson and Pendlebury', did you? No. You didn't. It seems it's rocket science for you Jose', not me. I hope we get pick 4 right. That is all.

Like you with Wines and O'rourke? Or was it Watson and Pendles?

You've compared Wines and O'rourke to Watson and Pendlebury? Do tell me Jose', what happened to a past number 4 draft pick we had not three weeks back? I remember supporters like you comparing him to Goodes early on. We can lose, and we've lost before with early picks. I wish supporters would stop with these ludicrous comparisons. It kills me. I'm assuming you've seen as much footage as I have of the two, which isn't much, yet you are willing to compare them to two of the top mids of our game. From the limited footage I have seen of these two, I would prefer O'rourke. We are crying out for a classy mid with elite skills, pace and one that can still win his own ball. That's what I'm hoping O'rourke could be for for us. We have our bulldozer in Viney. Add Jones, McKenzie, Trengove, Tapscott, Rodan, Grimes and Bail. They're all boys who enjoy getting the pill. O'rourke looks to be some silk that we are sorely missing. Pace and kicking skills complimented by an appetite to win the contested ball. The dee's need it.

I re-read it once and replied to your venting of frustration toward my posts. That seems to be all it was, as next to nothing you were accusing me of saying was accurate.

You and your brigade of 'likers' after that comment should relaise that whilst J Mac does possess those admirable attributes you have named, he still absolutely kills us with his kicking and decision making. J Mac may very well get a contract extension but I sure hope you realise there are plenty of players out there that possess the same hard attributes as well as being able to use the ball extremely well. Birchall, Guera, Hodge, Malceski, Matner, Shaw etc etc.. We haven't unearthed a player to fill J Macs role as of yet, (due to our awesome track record of drafting) but I bet you that as soon as we get it right, the guy will not be playing for Melbourne. Let's just say if it wasn't for us, he may not be playing AFL football right now.

Being able to hit a mother hucking target with or without pressure. It's all I prey for. Being able to use the ball. The number one fundamental skill within the AFL. We are the worst at being able to execute it.