Gator

Selwood, Dangerfield, Guthrie, Duncan, Steven, Ablett, Simpson, Atkins Really ? Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Langdon (who you failed to mention), Harmes, vandenBerg, Sparrow Steven is fat. Ablett hasn't played much midfield. Simpson has played 14 games. Atkins is hardly a quality midfielder and isn't even selected for tonight. Stack, Pickett, Caddy, etc. for Richmond also have question marks. It's easy to overrate others and underrate your own. I DO agree that we lack some depth. Hopefully Smith can balance it out. I reckon we're only one decent wingman short of rounding out a quality midfield.

Not for me. Just a team that had a great year.

His best role is as a defensive mid, as evidenced by his stellar 2018, which was kick started when he went onto a Bulldogs player in the second half. He's not a wingman and we may have Smith to partner Langdon. He's not a defender. Will he get back into Melbourne's midfield ? I don't think so. There's no room for Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and the emerging Sparrow plus Harmes. Could he be a defensive half-forward who hits the scoreboard ? He has pace, can take a mark and kick a goal. If he stays it's about the only opportunity I see for him. If Brayshaw stays I struggle to see room for Harmes.

Are you aware of their finals record since 2011 ? They're a good and consistent team, but they're hardly a great team and over recent years many of their finals teams have just been making up the numbers.

Yes, you are. Their first goal is to not be out marked. If they're constantly being out pointed by opposition defenders then your team is in a world of hurt. Scoring chains often start from defence. It's hard to retain the ball in your forward 50, build pressure and create forward 50 re-entries if your key forward is being out marked. Not to mention the opportunities that aren't being created for your smalls. How many contested marks do you think key forwards take on average per game ?

It's fair to say I don't overly rate them even though they're on the cusp of another flag. Do I put it down to 2020 being such an unusual year ? Great coaching ? Or the lack of great teams due to the affects of equalisation ? I suspect the latter with a sprinkling of the first two. Seventeen of the 22 who run out tonight were part of the team that looked cooked as they trudged off the ground having lost an elimination final to Melbourne in 2018. The new five are the flaky Stanley, a pacy small in Miers, the 8 possession/1 goal per game Rohan, third year improver 14 gamer Sam Simpson, and Dahlhaus, who's having a down year. They certainly addressed forward-half pressure and pace. But it's hardly a star-studded injection of talent. I'd like to be able to say that it shows the value of role players, but they're not overly inspiring fringe players, who'd be bottom 8 or 9 players at just about every other club. That said, who am I to argue ? They play a role and their team is in the GF. The bulk of the improvement must have come from the 17 who took their place against the Dees in 2018. Guthrie and Menegola have stepped up, while their evergreens have had good years, including career best years for Hawkins and Duncan. But it's fair to say I still don't overly rate them, although they are certainly well-drilled and predictable to each other (coaching). This brings me to my frustration re Melbourne. We really should be a top 4 side based on list talent. Yes, our depth may not be as good as some others and no doubt there was too much left to too few this year, but with a few savvy additions we really should be competing for top 4 next year. Fwiw, the departed five from their 2018 team are Tim Kelly, Abbott, Scott Selwood, Murdoch, and Menzel. As a collective, the five that have come in are definitely better than the five going out. Kelly has been replaced perhaps better than they expected.

From a disgruntled North Melbourne supporter: ''If Melbourne get Ben Brown for pick 23 that is such a ridiculous bargain and we are hugely losing that trade. I don't think too many people will be surprised when he comes back next year and wins the Coleman. The bloke is a top 3 full forward in the league, who had a down season in this mess of a year. I wouldn't trade him for a top ten pick but it seems inevitable that we are offloading him for a second rounder, so Melbourne (or whoever gets him) should be absolutely laughing. I've liked a lot of our offseason decisions, and nobody knows what's going on behind closed doors, but this one seems absolutely terrible from an outsiders perspective.''

I was at a supporters function a couple of years back with a senior employee and it's fair to say that the MFC did a very good job of keeping Hogan's issues under wraps. He was often an off-field challenge. There's a reason a contracted player was traded.

I wasn't comparing their careers at the same age, more-so when (good) key forwards start to regularly impact games of footy and elevate their career. Many start doing it in seasons 5 or 6.

I'd like 40-50 good games from Smith. That would be highly beneficial on a wing opposite Langdon. As a supporter, why would I care if he's given 2 years or 3 ? What's it to me (his length of contract) if he gives 40-50 good games ?

I'm ambivalent, but can see the merit, especially as I think the next two years are crucial for the club. Weideman starts next year as a 23 year old (is already) and it's his 6th season, which is the year many key forwards, such as Hawkins, really made their move. Big year for Weideman, big year for the club.

No. They got rid of Watts and Hogan for cultural reasons. They want to be a serious football club.

The bloke isn't driven by success. He left a team he thought was on the cusp of serious success off the back of a prelim to join a bottom club back in his home state. He let Tom McDonald take over as the big dog in the forward-line when he was still the main man. He's at best half-dedicated. Put simply, in football terms, right now he's a loser. The club won't entertain the idea, because they're not stupid.

Hogan is a particularly fine example of millenial fragility. It's a no from me.

100% not Ablett.

I concur with Nasher. I must be one of the few Demonlanders that think we can salute in 2021. And I genuinely do. I see shades of Geelong 2006 and Richmond 2016 in this Melbourne side. Not many clubs boast our top-end talent and plenty of the support cast are also quality. What we lack is depth/role players. And like Richmond did after 2016 we need to improve our ball movement/game-plan. When I think of Isaac Smith ALL I'm concentrating on is the 2021 season. Not 2022 or 2023, just 2021. Which is why I'm not hung up on the terms of his contract. He has at least two good years left so I couldn't care less if we offer him a third. That's what you do to get a player to move club. It's called an incentive. If we win a flag in 2021 do you think anyone will care that he came on a 3 year deal ? Of course not. So can I draw the conclusion that most reading my post think I'm delusional that we can win in 2021 ? And I stress ''can'', not will or that we're even likely, but can. Or is it the principle you're hanging on to re a three year deal ? I want the team to get better, so if a better option than Smith is available then great, I'm all for it. But if there's not a better option, and there's certainly not a better option presently residing on our list, then bring in Smith. True wingers are better if they're supplied by a good contested ball-winning midfield and that's what we have. Smith has been hampered by relying on one of the worst midfields in the AFL these last couple of years. He'll be far better served seeing out his career in the red and blue than Hawthorn. And we'd be better for it as well.

I'd delist Baker. I cannot see what anyone sees in him. A very soft and ordinary player. Sorting out the opposite wing this trade period is an absolute must. That's if you want to improve in 2021. If you don't then keep stuffing around with vandenBerg, Baker, Brayshaw (inside mid), or some other spud that won't work.

So a few posters here heard Oliver was unhappy a week or two back. And he may well have been. What 23 year old wouldn't occasionally express annoyance in their workplace ? Or even be momentarily unhappy if significant events happened in a short period of time that didn't please them in what's a cutthroat and emotive industry. For all we know he was annoyed for a short period but has now settled down. It will still be reported that he's unhappy, even though no-one posting here knows his frame of mind today. I'm not concerned, but agree 2021 is huge on a number of levels. I remain bullish about next year, but it's an important trade period and summer.

Fritsch is a forward for me and a natural one at that. If only he could kick straight. He had within 8-10 shots at goal for the year of Dixon, Kennedy and Lynch. And he played one less game than all of them. It's no stretch to say he should be kicking between 40-50 goals per year. That ability is too valuable to be wasted behind the ball where it's far easier to play.

Phillips can play, as evidenced by B&F placings a year or two ago, but he does torch it by foot too often. That said, it's not the worst option.

Anyone who doesn't want Smith on a wing for the next couple of years (or three) really is clueless about football.

One of the very few players to leave that I'll remember fondly. And I mean very few.

Richmond are very well coached and play well as a team, but they have some ordinary personnel. Far more ordinary than the great teams of the past. Btw, I'd get the ''sounds'' in your head checked.

The ''good'' teams today are ordinary when compared to those of the dominant past, but that's to be expected with equalisation measures that have impacted the competition more and more as times gone on. Melbourne have arguably 4 of the best 20-25 players in the competition. It's a tremendous building block. But we need better role players. The top 12 in our B&F were head and shoulders better than those who placed after. Too much was left to too few. And Goodwin needs tactical support. That said, the core ingredients for a top 4 team are well and truly in place. And that's where flags are won from. You're not convinced ? I'm shattered.

This is where you're going wrong. At the end of 2018 Port finished 10th. At the end of 2019 Port finished 10th again. This year they finished 1st at the end of H&A. I dare say you wouldn't have envisaged them winning the flag this year. AND they may not, but clearly they're right in the thick of it. Or Brisbane who were out of the 8 a couple of years ago and bottom 4 very recently. Things can change very quickly, especially when there are very few great teams. Who'd have thought the ageing Cats when they trudged off the MCG in 2018 after a loss to Melbourne would be in another prelim. I thought they were old and cooked two years ago, but here they are. To suggest a team with AA quality players in Gawn (2nd best ruck in the comp), Oliver (best young inside mid), Petracca (AA), and May (top 3 key defender), plus some quality support cast, can't win a flag in the next two years in a competition with barely a standout team is folly and the view of a myopic thinker. It won't take much to turn this team into a top 4 contender.