deanox

i see what you mean rhino but perhaps the club has done its best to smooth incidents over. sylvia 'fell asleep' in the spearmint rhino, sounds to me like code for sylvia got so blind with didak that he passed out before he could be stupid enough to get in the car with hudson. people dont fall asleep in night clubs. they are noisy. hopefully the next two years see the club take an absolute zero tolerance approach. over summer we gave a number of benefit of the doubt calls. mclean got a smack on the wrist and now sylvia stuffed up big time. the next person will be in trouble also.

out of interest, f your not a fan of these clubs and their practices why were you there to see him?

are you suggesting that this sort of behaviour has not occured in the past 10 years, and is new to DB's reign?

am i one of the few who is seeing a positive to this? if in past years the incidents have been swept under the carpet, that is probably the reason we have a culture problem. if in past years players have gone un punished for both major and minor indiscretions, that is probably why we have a culture problem. with a new coach and a leadership group with new powers, the club seems to be slowly saying 'no thats not good enough'. it is a culture change. it might take 12 months for it to sink in to players that they cant stuff up, that they have to work harder, that they cant be hoons. it might take them 12 months to learn DB's game plan properly and execute everything. but at least we are seeing actions punished instead of left alone. at least we are showing players they are responsible for their actions. lets see if morton or maric do that now? and risk missing their debut? i don't think so. it will take time. we are seeing it happen. in 3 years we will know if its successful.

ok i found the thread i was looking for. no wonder i couldnt find it, it is a 128 post long thread about rhys palmer which diverged into a discussion on drafting. http://demonland.ugbox.net/forum/index.php...c=8164&st=0 from flicking through a couple of posts worth reading include number 38 (warren dean), 44 (hannabal), combine 56 and 57 and check those out, post 82 (distance demon), post 86 (jarka) is excellent research), post 90 (by me, even if i did start by giving jarka a spray lol) have a read of those posts in particular. i think they analyse who we have missed over the past 10 years, perhaps you will come back with a slightly different thinking, but i think it is more of a case of which ever way you believe is the way you will see these stats to support, not just you robbief, everyone. and that is a good indication that we are overall line ball, it isnt clear cut which way we are truly leaning. like someone mentioned above, if we win a flag this year suddenly all doubts will be gone. the proof will always be in the pudding.

ps robbief i found these links you might be interested in. i still cant find the main thread i was talking about where we did some very serious analysis but if i do i will post that here too. http://demonland.ugbox.net/forum/index.php...topic=2239& paarticularly a good analysis by melon22 (post 18) RE drafting rucks http://demonland.ugbox.net/forum/index.php...topic=8641&

i would suggest it the coaching staff. when players are selected on ability not attitude, on reputation not form, and on overall capability not current (injured) capacity, over the course of a number of seasons, habbits and traits will develop that were not necessarily there to begin with.

well for starters geelong have had the benefit of some great father son drafts we didn't get. and it is interesting to note that geelong are also the only victorian team that truly has the ability to keep wraps on their local kids, even though they would be watched by other clubs also. it is interesting therefore that the other 4 sides mentioned are interstate sides. West coast have been blessed with a pile of absolute a grade mids. judd (first round), cousins (father/son), kerr(pick 18 in 2000), embley (pick 57 in 98 draft), some great KPP glass (pick 11 in 1999 ND), cox (rookie in the same year), q lynch (rookie in 2001). i'm not sure how you could claim their recruiting has been so much better than ours, when they have pulled talls off the rookie lists or otherwise picked up most of their stars with top picks and f/s. WC have drafted well, but they have had some luck and have been very successful with their top picks. i don't have time to go through the other teams now, but brisbane have had the advantage of paying above the going rate for players due to salary cap concessions. i have been impressed with PA's recruiting. even if you want to agree that these 5 teams have done better than us over the past 10 years, that still puts us in the position of being possible the 6th best recruiter over the course of that decade, and perhaps the most successful metropolitan victorian team at recruiting. which is similar to the stats that say that after essendon we were the most successful victorian team in that period (in terms of finishing positions and finals appearances).

robbieF i think you're posts are a bit out of line. your arguments are simply that 'we can't recruit' and your only reason or justification is 'because thats your opinion'. dig back through and find the thread on KPP and rucks that was done last year, and have a look at how many players we actually missed out on. most of the competitions good KPP and rucks have come from draft picks ahead of ours or from speculative rookie or late round draft picks where there is an element of luck. can't you understand that everyone passed on alwyn davey, not just us? he wasn't good enough. simple. every other club agreed with us. he wasn't drafted and went back to the sanfl to play. if he was that good, don't you think another club would have picked him up then? can you give a reason why no one else picked him up but we should have except for the tired old line 'i watched him and i knew he was good enough?'. could you explain why he slipped to the 3rd round in the 06 draft where essendon finally snared him with pick 36 their 4th pick of the draft, where they rated him below tom gumbleton, leroy jetta and tom hislop in their drafting order? have yuo considered that our drafting department thought he was too much like aaron to have a big enough impact on field for the mfc (ie he has the same weaknesses that can be exposed)? your arguments need some kind of rationale behind them to be a bit more credible. RE the cockatoo collins brothers: donald was drafted at number 11 in the 95 draft. his brother david was taken in the 95 pre season draft i believe. out of interest what year did ND and CAC join the Dee's? because we have just had the end of a 10 year long era that was ND's reign, yet we are arguing about drafting that took place 12 or 13 years ago, prior to the previous administration?

it was essendon before carlton after 2000, but ive never liked carlton anyway, and their arrogance has really killed my recently. and ash has done somewhat to redeem their club in my eyes...

my top 5 in order... collingwood daylight carlton essendon port adelaide

shows you a lot about the quality of the carlton list when the captain and vice captain have both come from other clubs... they have tried to buy a team. i can't really remember another club for who it has been successful (in recent history), so it will be interesting to see how they go.

would be interesting to know how many behinds he has scored. and it would be further interesting to know how many of those have come from outside 50...

i think the whole point is he didnt want his last name known to the public JJC. and you have echoed my sentiments regarding the level of his curating and grounds keeping. those grounds are phenomenal, and the pitches are always great, i have played on them once or twice, and watched a few crusaders games there...and you are right about hooning. but that still doesn't help to qualify what his reaction would be to someones behaviour as opposed to the rest of our reactions to the same behaviour.

back on topic. newton down back is interesting. it is a technique often used to teach CHFs however i would like to see him played up forward to gain more confidence at afl level. he can jump he can mark he can kick. he has to do it all consistantly. i am happy whatever the side as long as we see lots of the younger players play (ie the draftees, the rookies) and some of the players coming back from injury (ie rivers and moloney). i understand not everyones available, but hopefully some get on the park.

off topic but i've never noticed your avatar until today. well done.

only if a you're sure you're right. and b that you care enough to remember what ever knowledge you believe you've gained about me. c it probably did however tell you that my girlfriend makes me go to all the harry potter movies with her. you are correct. he is fantastic at his job. have you ever seen the trinity sports grounds? they are immaculate. hats off to him (and his team no doubt) for year in year out preparing fantastic grounds and keeping them in that condition. this does not however qualify him as a judge of character. and his ability in gardening does not make him a reasonable person. in fact i would suggest that for the grounds to be in such great condition he is probably somewhat of a perfectionist, which would definetly cause an over reaction, because some kids jump a fence to play a game of rugby instead of walking the 3 kilometres around via the front gate or because a footballer did a burn out. mclean shouldnt have done a burn out. but if 'david' had a problem he could have spoken to the mfc and im sure it would have all been sorted out. or hannabal, d is that if you read it closely you could probably guess my age but im sure thats what you meant when you said the post told you lots about me right?

i've had run ins with that currator (if he is the same one who was around 5 or so years ago), and he was like filch from harry potter. cranky bastard, always yelling at the kids and chasing them around for stuff. was it justified? perhaps sometimes. but overreaction was a word that come to mind often.

i think by saying we're not in a rebuilding phase, he is probably suggesting that we will come out and win a few games, and that senior players will get a run, as opposed to rebuilding where senior players sit out, kids get a game and the aim of the season is to tank. he wants to play finals. he has seen that while we have a large under 23 contingent, alot of those under 23's should be ready to step up and be our experienced players now that they have 50-100 games under their belts.

does that mean he plays for either essendon grammar or mfc not sandringham?

stephen gough would be a great target i believe. could we get him? not sure. not sure if you can have two CEO's though...

but he cant kick more than 40 metres? and hasn't learnt to in his 80 odd game career so far...

timD i think i agree with dappa dan somewhat in that from watching frawley, it looks to me like he make make a good solid full back, but not be a matthew scarlett or SOS style world beater. i could very well be wrong, but what ive noticed with frawley, is that while he doesnt do a whole heap wrong, he doesnt seem to do anything extra special. he gets his job done quietly, nothing more. maybe he will develop something special. i think he was a great pick because i believe that he will play lots of games for the club as a successful KP defender, but i just don't see him being something out of the box.

you make two good points. inside 50 contests and pack marking (under physical pressure ie not on a lea)d. as a leading full forward with space he could be effective. he would need to utilise his size for bullocking type work, and i spose his handball is good enough to give off to a runner if the balls on the ground. RE bartram, you are right that we could get a gem. or we could get a nothing. and i think there is more chance of a nothing than a bartram. also given the lack of talls floating around, his height and size offer something a bartram doesnt, even if its in a back up role. but i spose the footy dept would have weighed up. if we were offered pick 50 for him, we would've sat down and worked out what we thought would be available. maybe we would have asked for higher, but we probably wouldnt have gotten it.

btw, just in case you need to clarrify my position on brad miller: see post #11 see post #13 and just in case you need reminding how much credibility you have around here: see post 147