Rhino Richards

Its probably what makes the comparison of CJ and TJ so unfair. At his best, when TJ got the ball, the game, no matter how contested, tight or hard just seem to open for him to scythe through gaps and to pick out the best and sometimes the most obtuse option with deft and calculated disposal. I think I have seen few footballer with the richness of skill to make a game open up for him like TJ. He had some of the attributes that would have made him elite if he had delivered on these over the majority of his career. Yet this skill was completely compromised and chronically underdelivered due to a number of character and attitude problems that left TJ a lost opportunity. Many here have labelled him "class". Class is nothing if it not delivered consistently. At MFC, TJ ended up a talented but frustrating waste IMO. I am glad he was traded.

Let me see Carroll has been poor and dropped. Rivers has hardly played this year after six games last year. McLean has just started to come good after a questionable start. Miller you have correctly assessed as contributed little. Neitz coming a bad 2007 and poor pre season. Its not a stellar spine at WB but it has ours covered hands down. We have the highest points against and get towelled by good key forwards. Our midfield is inconsistent, slow, lacking skills and average at best. Our Fwd line is a hole. Well done. If you rated the Bulldogs as the only team to make the eight and not on the strength of the spine then you must have rated them highly above all other clubs elsewhere. And if you put those WB strengths against what MFC had to offer in that same area it should glaring where MFC was at. Possibly the round 2 result might have run some alarm bells. Apparently not. Interesting.

Darth Vader - Vlad

B) I am reading his biography at the moment. His son in the books foreward said that Norm was more upset about having been voted down by members when he wanted to join the MFC Committee in 1967 than having been sacked as Coach in 1965. Interesting.

Time to move on I think.

Here is the Western Bulldogs side from last week: B: Dale Morris, Brian Lake, Dylan Addison HB: Ryan Hargrave, Andrejs Everitt, Lindsay Gilbee C: Daniel Cross, Matthew Boyd, Nathan Eagleton HF: Brad Johnson, Mitch Hahn, Robert Murphy F: Scott Welsh, Will Minson, Jason Akermanis Foll: Ben Hudson, Ryan Griffen, Adam Cooney If you cant pick the differences between MFC team and WB team then you are missing alot. If you did wish to make the erroneous contention that the spines are similar then you might want wonder why the WB are top of the ladder and MFC are not. Chalk and cheese. Now what was your game plan that suits an underskilled, slow side?

Why bother?

I understand that he is contracted for 2009. I am not sure when that contract was signed. If it was a 3 yr contract, I hope we are paying no more than if we signed him for 2 years. He was offered up at the trade table last year as a "punt" and drew no more than a snigger from opposing camps.

He could not get close to Fev when he played on him last. B)

Its your call. But he has had three coaches during that time and he has failed to deliver. He is 22 and is in his fifth year at the Club. Excuses like that for his underperform are wearing thin. Carroll is contracted for 2009. He will probably be a big hit for Casey next year.

Oh dear. No one is definite no particularly an underperfomer like CJ. Carroll is a hack and a renowned culture sore and no Club would touch him with a bargepole!

No. The only similarity between them is that they have both chronically underperformed during their time at the Club.

That 20% to 25% of our list thats either injured, questionable or green. Neitz has gone and was shadow of his best this year You can add Carroll to that list with appropriate question marks. Makes a contradiction of your claim we were side capable of finals.

....in a what is turning out to be a stinker of a draft talent wise (ex Adam Cooney). If we had 3 and 5 in most other years we would have had players who have made a greater impact. Despite your love for him, Sylvia still has to prove himself a dependable and solid player. He is not the game breaking star we had hoped and wished for.

Agree Wolf. I think Daniher and team did a fair job with poor facilities and limited development budget. People forget that. However I am concerned that while we might recruit well in the draft we just dont develop this talent as well as other Clubs and where we could be an emposing side in the finals we merely make up numbers and disappear without a whimper. I guess the question you could ask is had we committed more to development, would we have not plateaued like we did in 2004 to 2006? I know there would be a variety of influences on these outcomes but surely this would be a key. I would be worried if we skimp further on a division that has suffered funding limitations especially with the upside with the core U23.

You cant skimp on the football operations and expect to compete against richer clubs with the primary business or bojective of winning matches. In past years we have been woefully underfunded in the area of player development. If we crimp the football department in quality personnel and resources we knee cap our on field performance. Unfortunately memberships and sponsorships ride to great extent on the ability to foster and generate a winning culture. And the alternative non football revenue sources have a high commercial risk and may not fit the charter or skills set of football club boards. While we have the debt it constrains us from being able to actively and financially pursue other options. We must reduce that debt as a priority.

What would he expect to be different at MFC considering Bailey was thinking of playing him off the HBF to address his chronic inability to shake a tag? I thought we did the right thing at the time and have seen nothing to change that belief at all.

Pavlich by the length of the Nullabor

Brave.

Wolf, You may be right on the Pies. The MFC problem is as much cashflow as it is writing off assets. The lack of positive cashflow is constraining the expenditure on critical areas like football operations and facilities.

We finished 14th in 2007 under the guise of two coaches, Daniher and Riley. Only 20 players of a list 42 (43?) were fit and available to start pre season training. Pre season fitness and training was limited and marred by that and injuries that came up. (eg Rivers, McLean and Bruce were barely fit or not fit at the season start) So if you did not like the brand of football we were playing, come on, answer the question. What game plan compliments an underskilled, slow list ? Bailey does not have a choice about rebuilding. There will be a mass clean out of senior players at the end of this year who have reached their use by date (Neitz, White, Holland, Yze and probably Junior and mabe Whelan). Hawthorn had a similar problem when Clarkson arrived. However he was in the fortunate position to be able to have players to trade (like Hay and Thompson) and he also retired Holland, Barker and Graham. He also got rid of Everett who was a culture sore. I would suggest that Robbo was kept given there was concern about the longevity of Neitz for another year and MFC would not have had a recognised KF forward line. Its to Bailey's credit that he has been able to cobble some promising propects there with both Robbo and Neitz gone. We struggled to make a profit when we made the finals. We could not afford to have bottomed out last year but we did. I dont think we had a choice. And just because the draft concessions have changed does not mean that there will be Clubs who wont go through the same process. Otherwise you better call Essendon, Freo, WC and StK because they will be doing just that. Our on field performance do affect membership, sponsorship and support. That is why we need to build enduring success and we need to aim to win a premiership. I note that you foolishly dont believe that is important. But after 44 years in the wilderness we need to get real success as the back bone of allowing the Club to financially survive.

Thank you. However the support was not blind. I had been publicly questioning list management and leadership/culture for many years and some of those chickens have come home to roost this year. Any Coach needs two years at least to determine his worth. Given the poor state of the list Bailey has inherited, I think he will need 3 years at least. Daniher tried to employ it in Round 22 in 2006 against Adelaide at Football Park in SA.

Sandy. White is finished in the AFL. Given we are a bottom dwelling side who do we have that is quality, other Clubs will give value for and that is surplus to our needs for 2009 onwards? Correct. After taking the best available at pick 1 we need to focus on this area.

Cameron Bruce on Brad Johnson. Been done before with great effect.

At this point in time. Freo have not touched the bottom yet and are a disaster. Harvey has been on the Fremantle coaching panel since 2006. He was made senior coach almost one year ago. His fingerprints are all over their playing list one of the oldest in the AFL. He help developed it and he has dramatically underperformed with it. His position is alot different to Bailey's given the relative state of the lists. Harvey's position is in jeopardy at Freo. Williams did well to get his side back to a GF so soon after a flag. They were ahead of themselves last year, their youth is struggling and some of their senior players like Tredrea and Lade are shadows of themselves. More changes a plenty there as they take stock of where they are at.. Worsfold has trouble on his hands. The fallout from the disintegration of culture at the Club and the loss of two players who could have finished their careers as Club greatest players and leaders is in tatters. Worsfold knew of and was expedient allowing Cousins behaviour to continue up to the booze bus incident. He is culpable and his vision is shattered. I would expect a clean out this year as they search for the lowest point.