Rhino Richards

Fair post Dappa. You have been a big Newton supporter and I understand why. While Newton will be given until the end of the year, he has done himself no favours thus far. Yesterday, while he received limited supply into the F50, I was disappointed with the following: 1. Failure to repeatedly present when the ball came forward. If I compare Millers work rate to Newton's work rate there is an alarming gap. 2. The relative ease at which his direct opponent ran off him from a contested situation reflecting a lack of second effort after a marketing contest. 3. Failure to grasp marks when he gets both hands to it. Its supposedly his strength. Its a misnomer to suggest he is only 20 or 21 yo age. He has had 4 years at MFC and the areas where he is lacking are core areas which younger and more junior players show naturally in lesser leagues. Why not Newton? The continual reoccurrence of his lazy half hearted approach crucifies any titbit of skill many posters get carried away with. MFC were terrrible yesterday and its on these days that forwards must work harder for the opportunities that come their way. Its disturbing that he did not work harder and more importantly never seemed to realise the need to.

You have got to be kidding. We might get an arm wrestle with WCE but we are a few rungs below the others. Overall the result is one thing, the lack of effort for 3 quarters was concerning. A few blokes pushed themselves closer to the door at Year end.

We played for the jumper today. Void of life and no character.

Skill,commitment and fitness of the players would help as well.

Exactly. I would possibly add Hurley to make it 5. We should focus on getting the best available with our first pick. If finish last then I think we will take Watts. And Warnock in the PSD!

Very good response Deanox. I'd reckon 17 1%ers would more than double Yze's career aggregate. Its a pity that in 2002 and 2005 given that Yze loves the Club so much that he sought to pursue contract negotiations through the media. He's a real team player who just struggles to see that the word and the concept goes beyond "ME".

And risk an injury to retiring players where the Club could be up for 50% of the final year salary for the injured player in 2009. Forget it! The motorcade would be far safer and cheaper.

Keep selecting him at Sandy and let him pull out. There are only a few rounds to go. No need or value in doing anything that could be labelled discriminatory. That just opens a hornet's nest. And the Club will be dirt in the media.

He has nine weeks of payment left. He has no chance of playing AFL again. Lets just pay him out and afford any issue and keep this out of the media. There is not enough money involved to get lawyers or the courts involved. He is yesterday. Lets move on.

So long as he butchers the disposal of it, he wont go anywhere. His issue is not kicking technique but poor decision making and execution. Lets hope he can improve what he does with the ball as his pace and ability to win the ball are assets.

Where? Sandy? Northern Bullants? Werribee? He has not been able to crack a regular gig in a bottom side and you are right no one will pick him up in the PSD. The reason the game doesnt suit him anymore if it ever did because he would not be put his head over the ball, is unaccountable, poor defensive skills, lazy when he does not have the ball and selfish when he does. And your one footed comment is apt and his preferred left foot has lost its sting years ago. Five years ago in 2003 he had buckets of ability and chose to cut corners and played cute and delivered inconsistently on his terms and not the Clubs. Too often in tough contested games he went missing and downhill skied against easier oppositions or sides that gave him too much lattitude. And too often he made accumulating possession stats an artform rather than an effectively advancing MFC's cause. No wonder he cant work out what is required in todays football under Dean Bailey. He was given so many opportunities to turn things around under ND but did not and was a leadership vacuum during those years when entrusted with it. Its been no mystery for a number of years but he does not get it and never will. Ultimately it should have been bleedin obvious when he was "Captain" in an injury riddled 2005 EF team when he flipped the coin and headed for the bench to only come on later in the game and toe poked rather than commit to a contested ball. Embarrassing at the time and he has deteriorated further to 2007 when he ran "spooked" underneath a markable ball against the Tigers. Reminds me a bit of Woewodin who sadly could not work out what everyone else could plainly see.... Its over and I dont know why he thinks it will be any easier if any other Club were to punt on him.

Not really. No team can "force" a player to retire beyond what I said before. Its just that its done on amicable terms.

If they have no further intention to play next year, they are on a high $$$ contract and they had no or little chance of forcing selection with MFC then a quiet word and an early retirement would seem appropriate.

Since when can you read "general consensus" as being "Dean Bailey"? The general consensus had written off Garland and Warnock and CJ ......and who have gave them a go against the general consensus.....Dean Bailey. There is no firm evidence that Bails has made that decision nor does he have to do so. Adem is contracted for the rest of the year. There is no reason why this great Demons servant cannot start making decisions about his future now.

I am not so sure about White. No problem. Their careers stop at MFC when MFC H & A season stops..... period.

No when you stated that "your wisdom is kids are all about winning" that is not my point. I stated kids prefer and you quoted that but sought to misstate that. Unbelievable. Again its just a preference not an absolute. So give it up. I agree there are more issues. But the keen alliance you glorify takes considerable time to develop for young people when its outside their close family unit. And I dont see that level being achieved with league players specially on the basis of cameo contact that there is at the moment at local junior clubs and Auskick clinic. Its just not as prevalent as the impact of the preference for supporting a winning side. And when you speak of "we" and "us" you are only represent yourself or are you hearing voices again?

Deanox, This is very important issue and applies to every senior player that is about to finish at year end. It also applies if those player continue to play for Sandy if Sandy makes the finals this year. IMO players who will be retired this year like White, Yze and Holland should not get a testimonial game. They only play if their form warrants it. And IMO it does not. Give them a lap around the G in open top car. If the view is that they will not be selected gain then they should be retired and paid out and should not be made available for Sandy beyond the end of August

Its pity you are not disagreeing with me as I did not say that and my quoted comments dont infer that at all. But thanks for confirming what I thought was the problem with your misrepresentation. Clearly not a one off

1. Firstly, your situation is hypothetical and I would normally have my first ruck on the ground at that stage of the game. Also I could dream up a hypothetical about PJ. But I dont see the point or the value in doing so besides playing on your own bias. BTW, neither PJ or Jamar are a grand final ruckman in quality but then again they could be lucky like Steven Armstrong and be in the right place at the right time. In regard to 17 men, unless PJ can impose at ruck bounces and throw his weight around clearing paths for smaller players he is as useless in a finals series as White has been. He is starting to do it. But he its not natural and he is not good enough. 2. We both agree that its marginal between Jamar and PJ. And much of PJ's work comes from what he does around the ground in quasi roles other than a ruckman. Its a bit of everything without anything standing out. 3. I note the MFC footy department have Jamar as No 1 ruckman rather than PJ. Hmm what would that be telling us? I dont think Jamar is great ruck package. But when I look at skill set PJ just does not have it in the areas where he needs to have it most. In the ruck. And if he did have that he would No 1 ruck. And he is not up against much. But tell that to the football department. 4. PJ has improved but I believe his upside is limited because of his weakness in the ruck. BTW, I did not call him hopeless. I just dont think he is good enough for AFL. As a consequence we should consider extracting maximum value for him at the trade table which I dont think we would possibly get with Jamar.

Ok so he rated 2 instead of 1. Street is tall, rather immobile and ungainly. I would have thought at boundary throw ins Meesen could have made better body positioning. Its a no brainer that you have to be in the front position on taller players and hold ground. He was repeatedly caught behind him. He was dead in the water. These are not good signs from a point of view of ruck mobility or thinking. If was a rookie like Spencer I would have said good lesson learned. However, Meesen had 4 years at another AFL Club. Surely you would have thought at training he would have had to counter this against Hudson and Biglands. I am glad he is improving. Its low base he is starting from.

yes it does Id dont rate Jamar or PJ as ruckman. However, I think PJ's versatility may get him some value at the trade table and in pure ruck work Jamar is ahead of PJ. PJ just does not have an impact at ruck contests and just does not give a physical presence at the fall of the ball. His mobility and foot skills are nice to have but he just does not do anything in the ruck and his value is peripheral. PJ cant ruck he just isnt a forward or a back and he is more a 200cm rover! He does a little bit of everything but does master any position enough to provide any real durable value to the side. And I dont see his upside if we get Warnock. Jamar would only have to pinch 25% of the time in ruck and provide a physical presence at ruck contests while we rest Warnock. As I said its marginal between the two overall. But if I was forced to deal with one or the other, PJ goes.

Now you sound like a PR agent! For a sugar and treacle report the comments dont fill me with any warmth about his progress. "He still has a lot of improvement to achieve in his ruck work. He got caught behind Peter Street and wasn’t as effective as we would have liked in this area." Street is slow and awkward. Meesen supposedly athletic. Nah, he is still a mile off where he should be.

No he will be held back because we will be giving a freeby testimonial game to players like Yze and White who are no longer up to standard.

White is out of contract and finished in AFL. No trade value. Jamar is better ruckman than PJ so I would keep Jamar and I believe that PJ may attract more interest at the trade table. However its all marginal though.

I find Lovell's reports overly upbeat on MFC players. Meesen seems to have done better as a wingman than a ruck. He is a concern. FWIW, I would not play Yze again in the MFC. He is finished, melts under real pressure and will revert to selfish antics. Petterd looks well short. Grimes played only 70% in the 2nds so he is still no where near fit. May struggle to debut before next year.