Rhino Richards

Oh dear. Stop looking at the stats and watch the game. They must have been pretty effective hitouts because Ryder absolutely blew him away in that match. The prevous week that silk blouse of a ruckman Fraser pants him also. At best (and I mean at his very best he nullifies) but his reversion to mean and below performances. Even his most ardent supporter has labelled him our "premier ruckman" who apparently cant *cough* ruck. The real issue he is not in the side is that we have one of our other ruckman on our list who is fit and the "AFL's best 2nd ruckman" is just not up to it.

Carp. If the umpires were awake it would not have been. He was taken out and retarded when he had his eyes on the ruck contest. He could not have pushed him off. It has nothing to do with a body on body contest. If the player had been a smaller midfielder the frees would have been paid.

You are right. Robbo should continue to do the low percentage things in preference to the higher percentage contests that help the team. He should also continue to work on that goal kick from flat on his back. Those tricks win games. Chasing??? Robbo Chasing???..... You are right again. Why should he chase? He never has and other dont do it. And most of all he has to think of himself.

His inability to keep his feet kills his ability to make consistent and worthy 2nd and 3rd efforts. "But still not good enough" Taking another unwarranted swipe at Robbo again Rusty? No you dont. You're the first person to come up with an inplausible defence of a player who has done little to substantiate any such accolade. Its was vewy bwave. It was one 2nd effort when he fails to make soo many others. But that's good enough for you sugar. Can we assume that since Brock played well this week that he is not injured at the moment and if he does play poorly in the future then he is obviously injured? Your recognition of my compliment to Brock just makes a fool of your petty comment "every negative under the sun and go on attacking those you don't like. " But what's new with you? I guess you can blot the previous 4 weeks of Brock from your memory as if it never happened. There that's better.

Agree with all of that. I was surprised he was given greater umpire protection because there was a number of times he was impeded in the ruck contest a player who was not the opposing ruckman. Check the tape and you will find that Warnock was into him whenever he was forward and regularly impeded him when Niknat was trying to ruck.

Why? Does PJ actuallyruck? Jamar is in the same sphere of experience as PJ. One has shown he can at least do something in the ruck, the other ...well you know. Like Hawthorn, Geelong and St Kilda??? FTR, Meesen is probably as mobile if not more so than PJ.

That would not be hard at all. In all seriousness it was a a very good game by him. A step up on the good form already seen. Should be a shoo in for the rising star nomination.

Playing your foavourites again Jaded? For the past few years, Robbo's good has been very rare against the bad. Robbo's 2nd efforts were again poor. He just cannot keep his feet in a contest and rarely has a second effort. We played an opposition that gave Robbo far more latitude than he has been given in years. And of those four goals, two were easy receives. In all fairness, McLean before this week has been dreadful. He was not on his own in that. But as our supposed No 1 midfielder, he had been very ordinary.

No. You are wrong there. His high draft pick is proof that they got it wrong as well. He was let go because of key weakness in his marking and work rate above the shoulders. We punted on him after Jolly went and we made a bad call.

He has been given a number of tries up forward for longer periods and just has no impact. The problems that damn him in the ruck and around the ground are going to [censored] him as KPP. He is the ultimate fool's gold that too many posters buy. A dominant ruck against Collingwood??? I dont think so. Spencer was alright early in the first quarter on Fraser then Fraser was BOG for 3 quarters and flogged Johnson particularly around the ground. In both games Fraser has pushed forward inside 50 and that fine mobile tall in PJ just did not stay with him. Your fixation with scape goats is preventing you from seeing the real issues.

Its telling in a game where we some expected to win we have put all bets on one ruckman returning from injury and not even contemplate PJ off the bench. It says alot at where PJ is at currently. If Meesen were fit and Spencer a little less raw, PJ would be a worthy No 4 and be gone at year end.

So who would you have selected rather than Wheatley? Neither Strauss or Maric were chances for selection on form and neither play Wheatley's role. Nor does Dunn. And if WCE beat last years premiers against the odds then they are certainly tanking. And Bail?? You are kidding aren't you. If ever there was a player that has shown little at VFL level then its him. On what he has shown to date I doubt Bail will ever play in the red and blue. You can see him in the VFL 2nds this week. Good pick up.

Each have had seven years in the AFL and the only Clubs they will find will probably be outside AFL. I think the instructions are basic to the players. Many of the players you mention are just not up to executing it.

I have no problem with Wheatley getting a run in the final rounds: 1. He is not blocking another player who would have been taking his position. 2. He is an experienced footballer who may provide some greater guidance than is being shown out there currently 3. He has a chance to stake his future with the Club. While I think this is doubtful nevertheless. 4. He may actually give us something on field that has been missing for a while. 5. If we are going to get hammered then I would prefer such losses are inflicted on senior players than continually sapping the confidence of younger players.

Really??? Whatever weaknesses Miller has as a KPP. they are going to be illuminated and further exposed on a wing. And PJ needs to sit in a FP and do what??? He is only going to do even less of what he struggles to do in other parts of the ground. Neither player have shown over the course of this year and last that they are up to AFL standard (PJ) or are borderline at best (Miller). You are right it's not Physics or Pythagoras, they're just footballers and ordinary ones at that.

Agree. I think it is good that the recent form and losses is hurting everyone and its not acceptable. Their appears to be a call to arms on this and that is good.

I can see that Choko is more likely to take a balanced view of the situation rather than your reactionary spiels. BTW Bailey could only dream of the Hawks list. Dont let a little bit of analysis scare you off. You should lay off the humble pie...you have had too much of late. Edit: Only just saw E25's post. B)

Good post Choko. I also think we came from behind the back blocks that Hawthorn did. We have neither the leaders that the Hawks did in their darkest days and we have not had the senior player quality to trade to embellish our picks. At the moment, its a rumour from the hot aired Andy Maher. If that not the ultimate caveat emptor. I dont know what is. I have no issue with Bailey consulting with anyone including Laidley. However it might not be more than a cup of coffee and sharing a point of view. Not that it will stop the running off with the pixies that engulfs this forum from time to time.

I'd like to think we will have Watts and an array of skilled mobile marking types like Bate and Jurrah. If Jurrah develops like we hope he will be a hard match up because of his mix of skills. I hope Bate develops into that. If Butcher was in the class of a Roughie or a Buddy we would be mugs not to consider him. However if we have the first two picks and those best two players are midfielders then take them. The important issue in modern football is that you need to have a multitude of forward targets to provide diversity of inside 50 options. Its not a measure of whether they are a stereotyped KPP or not.

The KPP is a misnomer and distraction to the issue of forward option He plays forward more often than not. Geelong regular attack inside 50 through Johnson as a target. And comments that Geelong only has one target up forward manifestly overlooks the impact of Johnson up forward. And Johnson is definitely a marking target and play maker up forward. It was a similar argument about Sydney when at its peak that the Swans only had one key forward in Hall. Overlooking the value of Michael O'Loughlin up forward. If we had a Steve Johnson player up forward then I would agree there is scope to have Watts as the sole KPF going forward. However we dont and the argument that Watts sole KPF position would replicate Geelongs forward line is incorrect.

*Cough* Steve Johnson.

How could Scully not be a lock in for No 1 pick? Identified early as the best talent in the draft. Every State carnival side has targetted him and tagged and double tagged him and guess what he keeps getting 30 touches and consecutive BOGs or near BOGs. He is not only living up to the high and tough expectations. He is exceeding them. He is already touted as a ready made AFL footballer this year and not next year. He has not put a foot or hand wrong. He is such a lock in on form to date that barring unusual events/injuries even the Blind Freddies here should be able to pick Scully is head and shoulders above any other player in the draft. And while Trengove has made good progress at this point in time he is not in Scully's sphere or rating. Trengove is a worthy young talent by all reports but lets not ignore obvious. Trengove has done well in these championship but he would have to burn up the park to leap Scully. And I would be very careful hinging your knowledge to anonymous recruiters quotes in the papers. Its stocking filling hoopla to fill papers in the absence of tangible substantive press that grabs the attention of bored desperate posters.

Bing!!! *Lightbulb goes on* And thats why they wont trade youth they can train to be good AFL footballers rather than trade their youth for players that have proven shortcomings and in some cases limited or no upside. Its that easy....At least I thought it was til...

I share your frustration WYL. However as glum as the past three weeks have been, we are definitely better than last year. Our midfield is and has been a concern for some time. Davey has been good this year but the issue is with his possessions is that he does not hurt the opposition enough with his disposals and he cant win contested ball in traffic. But a midfield of Beamer, Brock, Jones and even Sylvia is just molasses combined with an invisible and useless ruckman in PJ then we look less than third world. The team also lacks on field leadership and none of our senior players impact the game and most of the senior list should be pensioned off at year end. This leaves an intolerable burden and pressure on young bodies and young minds. And its been a hard season and its taking its toll on players like Morton. I think once we are over the WCE hump then Bailey needs to instil some confidence to back their ability and run and use the ball. The impact of the losses and lack of leadership is that player have a a defensive mindset and are not prepared to take risks. Many senior players are doing safe things under pressure not the things that inspire and change momentum in games. There are signs of optimism. Keep the faith.

As much as I would like a win this week and understand how good that could be for morale, I think this win we need is at least a week away. If WCE win, they lose the the PP and it locks Scully to us in the draft. Its brings our 2nd pick closer to pick 1 and to us. The outcome of this game is too important to our list for next season.