Rhino Richards

If he is another 1cm taller we should not take him because Freak has told us that picks that are 192cm tall are duds.

WCE have won 7 games out of 34 games in 2 years. They have not won away from home since 2007. And Worsfold signed up by the Club until 2011. Wonders never cease.

McLean is too slow and Jones lacks pace is line ball performer. We need much better than that. I dont see it with Valenti. You should be Valenti's manager.

Agree. Take the gloss off the top 6 and there are questions...big questions. Stevens, Houlihan and Simpson like it easy and on their terms and look great when things are fine but when the pressure is on. Carlton have a real problem with Fev. How can you have a flag tilt with culture bogan who has the Grand Canyon b/w his best and worst? Further still they must be paying Judd a packet. Its rumoured Pratt loved Fev and as a consequence his existing contract is very very high. Add Warnock to that and the need to pay Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer higher money as they mature and pressure builds. There are some issues there for Carlton. They came into this year with big expectations of playing finals and possible top 4. They have gone missing a number of times on the road and last night they melted embarrassingly in a game they should have had everything going for them. MFC have issues but FFS, Carlton have some real soul searching and the need to cut some front runners and culture sores.

Correct. Wheatley and Bell are finished at MFC. I'd only play them because I want to ensure we get Scully. And that's at VFL level.... At AFL level, that converts to treacle legs, run of the mill level hands,feet and mind. I am not sold on him. He may still get a chance at AFL but that he has not to date and has been "burning up" the VFL recently suggest he is not a strong preference with the Footy department and they rank him behind such a pedestrian midfield of McLean, Beamer, Jones and Junior.

Whelan grabs alot of favour with supporters and rightly so. During his better years he was exactly the man. Tough, competitive and inspiring. However he is a shadow of the player he was. For the past two weeks he has looked lost out there. Its not a matter of putting his body on the line it matter a Whelan getting to that line before the game moves on. Definitely struggling and living on reputation and past glories.

*Cough* Might they have Steve Johnson as well?

Firstly many of the players were not around when ND was there. And not all of ND's habits were bad. The issue is that the real quality and future of our list is 22yo at eldest with a couple of players at around 24. He will not have a mture list and I dont think year 3 provides you with any greater litmus test. You are right we should be showing signs of improvement next year but to imply that Bailey has an unfettered opportunity with such a young list ignores some of the real list issues that are not easily fixed. If we were to extend his contract then he would only be granted an extra year in addition to his contract position. If you were a Board member then you would have to make a clear call at seasons end are you happy with the process that Bailey is implementing to get us to the top of the ladder? If you are then you should continue to support and extend his contract. If not then you should be making moves on how you will get rid of him seamlessly in 2010. Unless the Board is 100% behind the Coach then they should be looking for an alternative. Its quite likely at the end of year 3 that you will be in no better position to tell if Bailey is going to be a good coach in the future. And besides you wont get to end of year 3, the media will publicly skewer you as a vascillating fence sitter. Any coach should reasonable expect some surety over his future otherwise its going to have a dysfunctional impact on the way he appraches his task. If 2010 is the last year of his contract, his future will be decide in the press. If we are 0-2 and 0-3 regardless of injuries etc, the vultures will be circling. Bailey will coach for each week and not for any long term developmental goals. The whole process that had been put in place for the first two years is off the rails. And the media will tear this Club up at a time when it least needs. And BTW its not about everyone making a pretty decent judgement. Its about the Board. And the Board needs to make a determination at seasons end. If you are not happy with those decisions then vote the Board off and vote in better replacements. Careful of the fence palings

I think the game plan suffers from the inexperience of the players to execute. I think many of the onfield imbalances are often caused by inexperienced players not knowing how to react or properly fulfilling their functions. In many cases the players are playing reactionary football when under pressure rather than committing to the disciplines.

I think its very hard to assess the disposition of the Coach from where we sit in the crowd particularly when the list is such a train wreck. I think the basis that its take two years to turnover a list and that next year we should be pushing at finals is wishful thinking for the points I made. I think the rebuild will take us to five to six years to really be a serious Finals contender such is the extent of the rebuild. The issues upon how you assess Bailey should be on whether he continues to fulfill the metrics the Board set for the reconstruction and development of the list when they appointed. I think it would be unprofessional and imprudent of the Board to wait until the end of 3 years to make their minds up. They either buy the process undertaken thus far within the next six months and extend him for an additional year or if they dont, they just pay him out and find someone who meets their requirements. I am not sure Bailey will be that premiership coach or the coach that will lead us to higher realms of the ladder but what I do know is that he took over a list that had guts finished out of it. No stars, no leaders, no faciliities, lineball competitive senior list and number of potential key players on LT injury. I am prepared to cut Bailey some slack on that. And I agree with the posters who have said that it isn't the Coach that instructs players to fumble, stuff up disposals and run out of position. I really the game time is hard for MFC when we dont have single senior player who leads by example and actually impacts a game. There is so little guidance on this. I think waiting to the end of 3rd year for assessing Bailey is a cop out and not achievable. Such fence sitting will impale the sitter. The Board should either back him at the end of the year for a further year or they should cut those losses now and find a Coach they believe will do it. Hopefully they will not be sucked in like Richmond and react on supporters impatience. This is a long hard recovery. If you do think I am ND ( I am not) then could please tell Mo. He seems to be warped in the view I wish to impale him. Look in all respect with ND he did well relative to the fact that he had no development coaching support and no facilities to train. I think in hindsight that from 2003 onwards that ND was chasing the game and I think some of recruiting reflected that. I have no issue with him changing his game plan but more with the way he did it. He rightly worked out that his old way of playing was being and would be pulled to pieces by top 8 sides. He was right. He rolled the dice for the go in his coaching career but failed like many others due to the fact that his faith in certain senior player was overspent, he never instilled a proper culture and the list was just not good enough. I share your frustration with the past two years but state that I think you will be disappointed if you expect a rebound next year. I would love that to happen but it requires a number of those younger blokes to lift significantly which is challenge and no injuries for us.

Your honest statement would apply to 99% of posters on forums (especially this one) who never actually see the younger players play, would not know a good player from an also ran if they and their "knowledge" does not extend beyond repackaging someone elses comments (whether or not the source has rehashed their comments 4th ot 5th hand from someone else). There are however some posters that do go the yards to look at some of the younger talent and do have an eye and a knowledge for assessing it. There comments should be noted. But generally the knowledgeable ones are not some of the more obvious and vacuous self promoters here. Caveat Emptor.

You wont get to the mid season review because that will be handled by the media. We take Richmond's place as the laughing stock of the AFL. We will look like impotent fence sitters if we dont move one way or the other. The basis of whether you would extend Bailey should be judged at this season's end and they should either extend him another year or face trial by jury in the media and create a forestorm of uncertainty and public intrigue over the timing of the noose of the Coach. The experience of the disruptive influences of the overthrow Board and Club management and the transition of 4 CEO's through the Club in Bailey's first year seem to be have forgotten by some.

With the forthcoming retirements of McDonald, Whelan, Wheatly and Robbo, there is about 900 AFL games and four players with 10 years experience or more that get taken off our list. None of the four justify their position in an AFL side even a bottom one. We will then have Bruce and Green who will be 30ish. The next eldest will be 27ish. A number of the 25-26 yo ( eg Jamar, Bell, PJ) may not be at the Club next year due to performance. The side that runs out next year will be even younger. The average age and game experience of the list will be lower than this year. This also highlight the growing issue over leadership of younger players now nad going forward. You need to take a closer look at the list what has happened to it over the past 2 to 3 years. This is almost a complete rebuild of the list from the ground up. If you think its done with a 2 year period then you are dreaming. Bailey should be accountable for his perfomance as Coach. However to make judgment of that performance without recognising the systemic list problems inherited and the time taken to resolve them then you may as well flip a coin to decide. If the Club is serious about been seen as a responsible and smart operator there is no way they will or should wait to the end of the third year to re appoint Bailey. If they had to wait until the end of the 3rd season to re- appoint then they should not do it because clearly they dont have faith in what he is doing. And besides he will be trialled and sentenced within the media that will undermine and make dysfunctional the operations of the Club. Every story and public profile of MFC next year will be when will Bailey go to the gallows. I would have thought the Club needs to have determined an extension or not for Bailey before the commencement of next season to ensure that development process they have backed for the past two years continues undistracted. If they cant do that then they should be looking to get rid of Bailey now. Next season is going to be tough for MFC as many of the key players in that development plans will still be finding their way in either first to third season. And BTW, the so called "Core" you speak are not all going to Core in the years to come. Green and Miller have defiinitely stepped up in the past couple of years and especially in the case of the latter will never rise to be dominant in games. Bruce's talent is flaky and inconsistent as its always and Jones is blue collar at best. And McLean has been injury riddled but I think the game catch up with him. And Bate, Dunn and Bell are questionable first round picks under CAC which is coming home to bite us. Geez its 7 years and people are still holding a candle out for Bell to be something.

The point is that I dont think they will limit themselves to Qld players. They will be chasing the best players from anywhere. Neither Petterd or Miller would be high on their list based on football ability. Possibly right with that. Hopefully he will make his own opportunity by his performances at Casey.

His disposal is questionable and that is no different from many in the side. However his upside is limited if he cannot address that. Its a pity because he does get his hands on the ball. However he too often makes a meal of its use. I would not be averse to considering a good deal for him if one was presented and MFC thought they could use the pick profitably. Otherwise keep and see if he can improve. GC will chase Victorian based footballers that will actually make valuable contributions to their list and playing performance. Two borderline players in a bottom team aint what they would be targeting. And whether they grew up in Qld or not is about as relevant as whether they barracked for GC as a kid.! If they were just targetting Qld players to come home they should be joining up with the local St Vincent de Paul to orchestrate meaningful family reunion programs.

We definitely need to develop the top liners. Hopefully 1 or 2 are already in our line up and we add 1 or 2 more. I dont think the rebuliding will stop with this forthcoming draft. We will need to add 1 or 2 to the list from future drafts and may trade as we approach our window. Its could be tough in 2010 ansd 2009 could be a glimmer of that given we are currently getting so little from our senior players. However, I think if we were bottom three with Freo and Richmond then they have more to worry about. Richmond are to retire Cousins and Richo after having got rid of Bowden, Johnson, Brown and Simmonds. Add to that O- Nicholls, McMahon, King, Pettifer, Schultz and Hughes then they are gasping for talent. Freo has two all Australians, Johnson, Hill, Palmer and little else. Hardly a talent pool there. I would also add NMelb and WCE to that list as well (I doubt they can resurrect after only two years down the bottom) I think the base pool of talent is not bad at MFC relative to the 4 clubs I mentioned. It will be interesting to see if GC17 trade any of their picks (ie Freo pedal a Pavlich to get picks). I dont think MFC has much that surplus to it to disturb a top 7 from Freo

Good post and I agree about the midfield. I hope that another standout emerges in this years draft. We need to get Scully. But I hope te likes of Grimes, Blease and Bennell will step and compliment some real class that we get with Scully plus one other good pick. I think after this years draft that if we choose well then we should have a reasonable pool of young talent to push forward such that the GC17 issue will not affect us badly as team just starting to bottom again like Richmond and Freo.

Possibly Fraser Gehrig as well......

Best post of the year easily. Pity it did not come with sound. Well done.

While this is partially the reason for their collapse in performance doesn't this just mildly ring a bell and suggest the importance of getting access to recruiting star players and their importance within the team. Judd was pick 3 in 2001 and Cousins was heavily sort after by 3 Clubs under the F/S rule. Pick smick.

Its called life in a sporting club in a competitive competition. So would you be happy to be a bottom half dweller eeking out a win here and there with no prospect of actually making a tilt for the flag? As for the middle to late player which players are actually commanding their position in the side? Green..yes. Bruce...maybe. I think some of the player you worry about need to justify themselves as footballers today. The game and club is bigger than them and they either play to become part of the future or prepare to be part of the past.

If you go to the footy every week then sure you will realise that we are simply not good enough to win more games and have to both improving the calibre of the players on our list and develop the quality of the list as well. DB is right we dont tank. We dont have to. However there are other Clubs like Rich, Freo and WCE that know full well that this is the last year unadulterated year to pick talent before GC and WS18 come into the competition and they will and are throwing games. As draft picks arent enjoyable as winning games, I dont know about you but I would have got a bigger buzz out of MFC having Nik Nat/ Hill/Rich as a 200 game 10 yr player than winning a meaningless R22 game in 1987. MFC would have rocks in its head not to exploit the opportunity to have two good dips at further adding to its talented list. And its great you appreciate three young stars in Watts, Grimes and Bennell. Now has do players like that come about?

White was reigning AA ruckman and deserved his opportunities in that year. Jolly was immature sulk who gave little at MFC when his chance came at the end of 2004. However an alternative to White should have been actively sort through draft/rookie/trade in 2005 though. You get no argument from me over Yze. In the last 2 years we have pensioned off White and Yze. Robbo should be soon. Culture sores Carroll and TJ have been cut. Give the younger players a chance. There is more leadership in some of those young guys there than was often shown by some senior players at MFC.

After 40+ years of no flag success, you dont want to give yourself the best chance to do that by securing the most talented group of footballers together that you can. Figures.

Would you have preferred that we let him walk to the PSD the year after we traded him. He got [censored] off because he could not get game time against the then AA ruckman. What would you have done at that time? Hindsight easily misleads.