Lil_red_fire_engine

Another one brought to you by Demonland Groupthink.

Jerry please dont bring logic to this forum.

Another one to the Demonland Groupthink response. Morton showed in the first half today why unless the offer is ridiculously good why you retain him. He also showed the exact reasons why he is frustrating to most. Again his game today was not one that deserves him being singled out for criticism.

All Bate did today is increase his trade value and allow some of us to not feel as bad if we cannot move him on.

6. Frawley 5. Moloney 4. Bate 3. McKenzie 2. Rivers 1. Tregove (would have been BOG but for some iffy disposal)

I saw this year best case 6th with finishing 10th probably my expectation. I expected us to beat up on sides at a similar stage to us yet lose to the more mature teams but with a more consistently competitive showing. From a win loss perspective this season has not been a disaster but has not lived up to the over the top expectations of some supporters. Our performances against the stronger bodied sides is where the biggest disappointment lies and such results can be attributed to an indifferent game plan (being rectified), a young and immature midfield (more games and preseason will assist this) and poor leadership (hopefully will get a massive shake up between seasons). We have played 8 debutants and all have exciting qualities though I am not sold on Evans or Nicholson. That leaves only 4 players on our list including rookies who have not experienced senior football. We have seen another 5 players clock up 50 AFL games (Bennell, Garland, Martin, Morton, Petterd) and injury permitting should see Watts, Trengove, McKenzie, Jurrah and Grimes follow suit next year. We have seen injuries to Jamar open up invaluable experience for Martin and Gawn. The same can be said for Grimes opening up opportunities for Strauss, Tapscott, Nicholson and Blease off half back. This years focus was always about development and not about an assault on the finals. I still believe we have a great list and we need to stay the course, be patient and make some smart list management decisions. We do not need to panic into trying to rush our move up the ladder with short sighted trades. The season will finish today and many will say it was a wasted year but dont discount some of the positives that will be looked back on as very important as we start to rise over the coming seasons. GO DEES - GIVE'M HELL

If anyone player deserves to be named on the ugly list it should be Davey. You could point to the exact reasons provided for Morton and then add that being a highly paid, mature bodied member of our leadership team should create higher expectation. Yet I do not see him singled out anywhere..... Morton is singled out because he is Morton and for no other reason.

Exaggerate much? He does not shirk every contest however he currently has a habit of not hitting the contest every time. He rarely loses a contest but he does not involve himself in enough contest where he should. If you havent worked it out his body shape, natural tendencies and the way we have played him early on in his career did not lend to an expectation to hunt the contested ball. As far every possession he fumbles I am pretty sure we scored directly 4 times from his ball use last week. His body shape was always going to take time and getting injured at the worst point in the last 2 preseasons has not helped his continuity or the confidence that goes with that continuity. You mention for a number 4 pick yet looking at the top 40 picks of that draft the only players I would trade him for at present would be Dangerfield, Rioli, Ward and Reid. My point is has he been disapppointing this year? Sure. Does he deserve to be singled out in the manner you have? No. There are plenty more that you could have listed in the Ugly column.

I was not at the game but from the telecast Gawn was a cut above and will start to become a serious force next year. Will be interesting how they balance his development with Jamar and Martin. Casey appeared to have a alot of same pace players and getting some class and speed back into the side next week will do them the world of good.

Correct. If he is not at Melbourne next year it will be for a very good offer or he has walked. A full preseason, more kilos and the confidence of a new coach and many will be eating their words.

Great news. One of the only true game breakers that we have and integral to our push up the ladder in the coming years.

6. Garland 5. Blease 4. Jones 3. Bennell 2. Moloney 1. Green

Agree with these statements Fan. It still holds true that your best six win you matches and it is no suprise that a fit Cox, Kerr, Embley and Glass has seen a massive spike in West Coasts fortunes. I am not a massive fan of Rivers but his year is seriously under rated by most. I agree on Green that he has got the most out of his ability. However most of the criticism of Green this year is unrelated to his ability and more so some traits that he shows that exemplify the selfish and soft side of our football club. Being made captain in such a frustrating year has not helped his cause. I think that the loss of Grimes and Bail for most of the year has damaged more than most understand. I look at this potentially as the year we had to have as long as the right decisions are made at seasons end on coach and list management. I really do hope we hang in there, dont look for the quick fix and be patient with the direction we've taken. As frustrating as it can be I still think it is the correct way if we are to win a premiership.

I will enjoy winning as much as anybody and agree will take a premiership any way it comes. However I have noted that over the last 10 years the 2 teams I have least enjoyed watching as a general footy fan are Sydney and particularly StKilda in the Lyon era. Maybe my view in that brand may change when it is embedded to a club I am emotionally invested in but from an outsider watching it is not a style I enjoy.

There has been a tweak second half of this year but most of his coaching has not just been on focussing on defence but focussing on it until you smother your own ability to score. The top sides now have a strong focus on defence but also have an ability to score heavily. A friend of mine once said not many sides lose these days when they kick 15 goals 10 (100 points). Over the last 5 years 66% of the time StKilda have not scored over 100 points and that is with having arguably the best CHF and crumber in the league in that time. He is a good coach but I hope if he comes he brings a hard nose style with defensive intent but balances this more than he has at the Saints.

Jack, all for winning and greater attention to defence. However I go to the football to be entertained and "Saints Footy" is not something that will draw me there every week. This is not to say that "Dee's Footy" would be a copy of "Saints Footy" but if it was I would not be that enthused to watch us.

I think the conversation will go along the lines of "Brad you're losing the captaincy and wont be guaranteed a starting 18 position in 2012 but we'd like you to stay at Melbourne". Brad then departs for another club.

No thanks. If we played Saints Footy I doubt I would go most weeks. Winning is important but his style is a blight on the spectacle that is the game.

Ins Jetta, Tapscott, Bail, Davis, Gawn Outs Davey, Sylvia, Scully, MacDonald, Jamar Changes like for like. Davey and Sylvia assumed suspended. Scully and Jamar should be put to pasture for rest of year. MacDonald is 20% gun 80% liability and Davis form has been good and deserves a taste of senior action.

This reason was also stated at a pre-game function. If that is the case would they have not considered the risk we may get an early injury and therefore you are bringing on a player who you are unsure will get through the game. I dont believe that to be the actual reason.

Unless you are in the inner sanctum I cant see how you make that call. Either way there is a big difference between seeing Fev for 2 training sessions a week and 4 hours on the weekend than the full time involvement of an AFL list. Your username seems quite apt at present.

Who would assume that a year with Viney is treading water? I can already see the makings of change in parts of our game particularly last week. I am sure the impression he would leave over a preseason let alone th 2 weeks he has had so far would not see us treading water. My question is what occurs if a Bickley situation happens. What if Viney take us say into the top 6 next year and decides he loves this coaching thing. What to do then. If MM wants to coach us it will happen next year and not after.

I have no doubt that on the cheap as a late draft pick Fev would perform well above expectations. However it is negative impact on an impressionable young list that would be the biggest risk.

Fevola has proven to have a negative impact on two clubs. There is a big difference between prior knowledge and the unknowns you mention above. To compare Fevola is ridiculous.

From DemonsHQ Stats Jetta 29, McNamara 27, Bate 24, Wall 23, Collins 22, Bail 22 Goals Fevola 6, Bate, Jetta, Lawrence 2, Fitzpatrack, Gawn, McGough 1