Mate I've been hoping to see him in the 1's since round two.. Obviously he is young and slight of body but at least he is putting in the 2nd efforts, Lovell's write up about him from last week was good too. was it 5 tackles the week before?

It's the rnd 6 cut off... hmmmm

Hes so small though.

I rekon hed get hurt at AFL level.. needs time in the gym

Dunn - lazy and unaccountable? He kept Johnstone to 15 touches, which doesn't seem to be too lazy and unaccountable.

Johnstone played as a virtual forward pocket. How many possessions did you think he was going to get ? I understand that you're trying to provide some balance amidst the current supporter frenzy, but Dunn is just another very average footballer who wears red and blue.

Johnstone played as a virtual forward pocket. How many possessions did you think he was going to get ? I understand that you're trying to provide some balance amidst the current supporter frenzy, but Dunn is just another very average footballer who wears red and blue.

Many teams have average players that hit the high spots because of the class that they are surrounded by.

Would Steve Johnson and Josh Hunt be as lauded if they played without the skill and inspiration of their peers?

Look at west coast. Doing it a bit harder now.

Im sure the coach and players would find it easier to find a "Game Plan" that works if we had a Chad Cornes, Pavlich or Brent Harvey to put some froth on an average cup of coffee.

I find it interesting how many posters give up on our list and back our brand new coach.

It doesnt have to be mutually exclusive. We should back them both.

It is not easy. Im trying to back both our coach and players but its like playing two up when the fix is in.

Many teams have average players that hit the high spots because of the class that they are surrounded by.

Our lack of genuine A graders is clearly our biggest concern.

Many teams have average players that hit the high spots because of the class that they are surrounded by.

Would Steve Johnson and Josh Hunt be as lauded if they played without the skill and inspiration of their peers?

Look at west coast. Doing it a bit harder now.

Im sure the coach and players would find it easier to find a "Game Plan" that works if we had a Chad Cornes, Pavlich or Brent Harvey to put some froth on an average cup of coffee.

I find it interesting how many posters give up on our list and back our brand new coach.

It doesnt have to be mutually exclusive. We should back them both.

It is not easy. Im trying to back both our coach and players but its like playing two up when the fix is in.

I think hunt is one of the best kicks in the game, awesome to watch, would love to have him at Melb. Hard, tough, massive who can move the ball quickly and hit a target. Oh what a dream for MFC....

Johnstone played as a virtual forward pocket. How many possessions did you think he was going to get ? I understand that you're trying to provide some balance amidst the current supporter frenzy, but Dunn is just another very average footballer who wears red and blue.

i really think Dunn can play, i just think he, like many melbourne players, needs to be given a position to learn. same goes for Bartram, he'll never be a gun midfielder, so let him do what he does best and tag an opposition midfielder. i'm a fan of versatility in a player, but i really think it's about time Dunn, Miller, Bate, Bruce, Bartram, Silvia etc were given a chance to make a position their own. use their versatility in plan B.

Johnstone played as a virtual forward pocket. How many possessions did you think he was going to get ? I understand that you're trying to provide some balance amidst the current supporter frenzy, but Dunn is just another very average footballer who wears red and blue.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Dunn has all the attributes required to be a very good league footballer. Given his height, marking ability and ability to run I think that he can develop into a very hard to match up on utility who can also go forward.

If you want to turn on the blowtorch then for mine its our experienced players who should be your target. Robbo is an absolute liability when the ball hits the ground, he goes to ground faster than a director of a finance outfit gone bellyup leaving us playing a man short. Then there is Bruce and his fiiddy/fiddy disposal, White and his cheap stats, Wheatley and his clangers etc.

Our lack of genuine A graders is clearly our biggest concern.

This we can agree on.

And therein lies the challenge for Bailey and Prendergast. Their mission is to recruit talent and develop the players into skillful, hardened, consistent footballers.

Hes so small though.

I rekon hed get hurt at AFL level.. needs time in the gym

He's not you know. Maybe a cm shorter and a kg lighter than Nathan Jones. We're not asking him to break packs open are we. He's about the same height as Barassi and only half a stone lighter than the great man was at his peak.

I think hunt is one of the best kicks in the game, awesome to watch, would love to have him at Melb. Hard, tough, massive who can move the ball quickly and hit a target. Oh what a dream for MFC....

I agree he is a great kicker in. Although this is one of our perennial faults Moloney should be just as good. I often compare them since their rivalry two years ago.

Hunts defense is much more professional and I hold out hope Brent has the capacity to employ more thought to his game. If he did, we would have a great successor to Wheels IMO.

But it is all F%6ing pipedreams. I used to argue Wheatley could be a great fullback in the Fletcher mold. But it just isnt as easy as it looks!

Nevertheless: Hunt is overrated.

I agree he is a great kicker in. Although this is one of our perennial faults Moloney should be just as good. I often compare them since their rivalry two years ago.

Hunts defense is much more professional and I hold out hope Brent has the capacity to employ more thought to his game. If he did, we would have a great successor to Wheels IMO.

But it is all F%6ing pipedreams. I used to argue Wheatley could be a great fullback in the Fletcher mold. But it just isnt as easy as it looks!

Nevertheless: Hunt is overrated.

I'll politely disagree my man. If you had a choice of Hunt or Moloney who would you take?

YEa Wheata looked like he was going to develop into something, I was excited about him for a couple of seasons. He has not unfortunately, like the majority of our players at present.

Dunn - lazy and unaccountable? He kept Johnstone to 15 touches, which doesn't seem to be too lazy and unaccountable.

Jamar has been underwhelming in his career to date, but he was excellent yesterday. Exceptional work around the stoppages.

McLean has generally been good this year.

Bailey seems to like playing players who have a really strong work rate. Bartram certainly does.

Well everyone is just terrific - I can't work out why we keep getting beaten by 10 goals every week.

We must be watching the wrong game Dunn's highlight was getting outmarked by the 178cm Hooper & I repeat that Jamar, Mclean & Bartram were woeful

I find references to a Coaches "love children" about as knowledgeable as calling AFL players "soft".

Its another way of saying "I dont understand why some players are picked over others but I will try and label it as coach's blind bias".

Bob nailed it in his summary.

I'll have to explain it to you since you don't understand the term. All coaches have certain favourites which is why some players have to change clubs becuse certain coaches won't give them a go

refer Tom Hafey & L Fowler G Neesham & P Bell & R Barrassi A McDonald & A Joyce.

Some coaches stick with their best 22 regardless (not a bad idea when winning) & other coaches tend to pick players on form.

My point is that having made it clear that Yze, Holland & others were not guaranteed a spot in the senior side he cannot keep persevering with players out of form. Including the pre season we have now lost 10 on the trot so do away with names & reputations & go with form players.

He's not you know. Maybe a cm shorter and a kg lighter than Nathan Jones. We're not asking him to break packs open are we. He's about the same height as Barassi and only half a stone lighter than the great man was at his peak.

Height and weight doesn't necessarily make you a "small" player.

He'd be more talking about his lack of physical strength compared to everyone else.

Cale Morton is also a "small" player in that regards as well and MFC should be careful about not burning him out

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Dunn has all the attributes required to be a very good league footballer. Given his height, marking ability and ability to run I think that he can develop into a very hard to match up on utility who can also go forward.

If you want to turn on the blowtorch then for mine its our experienced players who should be your target. Robbo is an absolute liability when the ball hits the ground, he goes to ground faster than a director of a finance outfit gone bellyup leaving us playing a man short. Then there is Bruce and his fiiddy/fiddy disposal, White and his cheap stats, Wheatley and his clangers etc.

Why do you assume that I rate our experienced players ? I've already said that we don't have any A graders.

I'm also not intoxicated by young footballers purely because they're young. If they're young and crap, they're young and crap. Btw, I'm not saying that Dunn is crap, but I've seen enough to know he'll never be an A grader. When I judge footballers I do so with a view to whether they have the potential to play in a premiership team. I'm not writing Dunn off yet. Could he be a member of a premiership team ? He has the size and physical attributes, so maybe.

Bartram has been disgraceful. He can only get better (surely!).

Bailey doesn't play kids. Dunn, Bartram and Bell were regularly playing games when Daniher was coaching. He has ruined Morton he was in our best 5 players in rnds 2 and 3 then in rnd 4 they start him on the bench and since then he has been hopless. Weetra is now playing for Sandy's 2nd's. Wonaeamirri is the only 1 showing anything. Martin, Maric, Bate, Valenti, Buckley and Garland should have been playing weeks ago. It's more than time to start thinking for the future there is no way Yze and Holland are part of that. Yze and Holland are the icing on the cake coming off the bench when everything is going well we have no cake I think we should be trying to make one before they get a game.

Why is McDonald still our no1 tagger? They need to get Bartram back into the spot that made him a valuable player which is a midfield tagger and if he isn't fit enough then keep playing him at Sandy until he is, same goes for Bell he isn't the smartest player going around he should be playing on the players who actually know how to play to show him how it's done and again if he isn't fit enough play him at Sandy until he is. They are both pretty quick while McDonald is slow and should be used as our 4th midfeilder comiing off the bench. It is a disgrace that we are still relying on the same players that we did in 2000.

Interesting thoughts. Good post apart from my pet peeves about punctuation...

Bailey doesn't play kids. Dunn, Bartram and Bell were regularly playing games when Daniher was coaching. He has ruined Morton he was in our best 5 players in rnds 2 and 3 then in rnd 4 they start him on the bench and since then he has been hopless. Weetra is now playing for Sandy's 2nd's. Wonaeamirri is the only 1 showing anything. Martin, Maric, Bate, Valenti, Buckley and Garland should have been playing weeks ago. It's more than time to start thinking for the future there is no way Yze and Holland are part of that. Yze and Holland are the icing on the cake coming off the bench when everything is going well we have no cake I think we should be trying to make one before they get a game.

Why is McDonald still our no1 tagger? They need to get Bartram back into the spot that made him a valuable player which is a midfield tagger and if he isn't fit enough then keep playing him at Sandy until he is, same goes for Bell he isn't the smartest player going around he should be playing on the players who actually know how to play to show him how it's done and again if he isn't fit enough play him at Sandy until he is. They are both pretty quick while McDonald is slow and should be used as our 4th midfeilder comiing off the bench. It is a disgrace that we are still relying on the same players that we did in 2000.

Ruined Morton? He is a first year player and will have peaks and troughs for the next few years, give him a break. Weetra was not playing under ND and from what we've seen so far will not be good enough to go around next year, if he was drafted as a player by the previous Footy Dept how did Bailey ruin him?

I'm playing devils advocate but I assume when people are saying "kids" they are meaning players who might not technically be kids in the footy sense but as in have played very little for us. The Buckleys, the Jonhsons, the Warnocks, the Weetra's, the Garlands... he has been playing the "kids" in that sense.

He is our number one tagger as there is no one better at the minute. Bartram is still finding his feet after a full year out of the game. Will take a little time, don't rush we are going no where this year.

It has been discussed again and again and again about our current list and the same players from 2000.... lets all get over it, take it onboard as this is what Bailey was left with, deal with it and see where Bailey leads us from this week onwards. I will be extremely disappointed if a big statement at selection is not made this week... ie a Robbo dropped, as this is the line in the sand they talked about after rnd two..

Bailey doesn't play kids. Dunn, Bartram and Bell were regularly playing games when Daniher was coaching. He has ruined Morton he was in our best 5 players in rnds 2 and 3 then in rnd 4 they start him on the bench and since then he has been hopless. Weetra is now playing for Sandy's 2nd's. Wonaeamirri is the only 1 showing anything. Martin, Maric, Bate, Valenti, Buckley and Garland should have been playing weeks ago. It's more than time to start thinking for the future there is no way Yze and Holland are part of that. Yze and Holland are the icing on the cake coming off the bench when everything is going well we have no cake I think we should be trying to make one before they get a game.

Why is McDonald still our no1 tagger? They need to get Bartram back into the spot that made him a valuable player which is a midfield tagger and if he isn't fit enough then keep playing him at Sandy until he is, same goes for Bell he isn't the smartest player going around he should be playing on the players who actually know how to play to show him how it's done and again if he isn't fit enough play him at Sandy until he is. They are both pretty quick while McDonald is slow and should be used as our 4th midfeilder comiing off the bench. It is a disgrace that we are still relying on the same players that we did in 2000.

The key point is that we are in danger of not winning a game in 08 & destroying the club - we just have to WIN..

Play the best 22 & give the supporters a win or we will not have a club.

Dunn - lazy and unaccountable? He kept Johnstone to 15 touches, which doesn't seem to be too lazy and unaccountable.

Jamar has been underwhelming in his career to date, but he was excellent yesterday. Exceptional work around the stoppages.

McLean has generally been good this year.

Bailey seems to like playing players who have a really strong work rate. Bartram certainly does.

What l don't understand is.. why were we tagging a player who we traded? Can anyone answer that?

The key point is that we are in danger of not winning a game in 08 & destroying the club - we just have to WIN..

Play the best 22 & give the supporters a win or we will not have a club.

Nah, F... that we need to build something for the future. Coming 11th is just as inspiring to our fairwhether supporters as finishing last.

Play the talent, which is young, and give us a reason to look forward to next year not next week.

We will win a game this year, but I want us doing it while showing we have some young talent at the club and it is not hopeless.

The narrative of our plight changes if we play all our older players - our 'best 22' as you say - and we still lose, or only win a few. It changes to 'Melbourne has no future...its younger players can't break into this awful team...the club is no good and the situation is only going to be worse when these important players retire'

Play the kids, and as i'll continue to say, give a reason to be excited about Melbourne. People are excited about potential, especially potential to win a flag. We have to be looking at that goal with our player selections but also our trading and recruitment.

I want to see the only 'older' players at the start of 2009 to be around the 'best 22' to be: McDonald, Green (if not traded), Robertson (contracted till end of 09), Bruce (if not traded), Wheatley, Whelan, and Carroll. Everyone else should be 25 or younger.

What l don't understand is.. why were we tagging a player who we traded? Can anyone answer that?

The coach saving face. If TJ had 30 possessions and 4 goals he would have had to cap himself!

What l don't understand is.. why were we tagging a player who we traded? Can anyone answer that?

From 10 years experience at the one Club, TJ hates being tagged and his inability to be effective under those circumstances is one of the reasons why he was traded in the first place.

Summary:

Jamar has actually been quite good in recent weeks.

Bartram, although his disposal has been disgraceful, works hard and runs the lines.

Dunn needs to be given time to develop on a wing.

Bailey needs to tell Miller that he will play him out of the square for the next six weeks, regardless of performance, to see if he can indeed play the position.

Morton needs a run in the twos.