I've seen all 4 games at the 'G. All different oppositions, but there's something depressingly similar about Melbourne's woes. I'm trying to rationalise it. Whatever, it seems Bailey is expecting them to play some radically different style that they are not able to. I watched Bailey today, very little emotion. I suspect he's not hurting like many of us are. Probably very different emotions for him.

Commentator on 774 said after the game that from junior footy, a player's instinct after getting the ball is to look ahead and kick to a target. But Melbourne players are being asked to play a style against their natural instincts. Which is why they look sideways for someone running past, hesitate (natural instinct happens at speed of light, these guys are having to think and compute options.. takes precious time).

Commentator also said that kicking forward to a contest at least puts the ball in the zone where something can happen, train to beat your opponent in one on ones, put some trust in ourselves to beat an opponent. Then add the handball stuff on top of that, rather than try to manufacture a whole new style which is simply beyond the players we've got.

Dean Bailey pleaded "to the red and blue faithful for their understanding and persistence through this rough time" ( from website)... yet he was absent from the aftermatch function! Stan Alves said it's time for Bailey to front the fans, explain what's going on, tell us the plan if he wants our patience and understanding. At the moment, we and our club's future are being treated in very cavalier fashion. And it's hurting. Badly.

Bailey is trying o do his best with a sub-standard list, as Paul Keating once said, "it's the recession that we had to have"

I agree - I would just like someone, preferably the coach, to come and out tell me what they are trying to get this team of footballers to do. I am as confused as the players seem to be.

Keeping us in the dark in causing division amongst members/supporters.

Bailey is trying o do his best with a sub-standard list, as Paul Keating once said, "it's the recession that we had to have"

Yeah Keating also said something about us becoming a banana republic. Keep trying to play like we are and we'll be the basket case of the comp.

All he needs to do is say, the players like to runa around in circles until they all fall down.

Or

They are retarded.

Must say i agree. I think we'll end up on the right track, but i'd like the coach to sympathise with our situation, at least we can feel we're on the same page then! Would make these losses easier to take i think

a good thread...i do agree, it does go against their natural instincts and you can see that...when they are 60 out and you are feeling that the best option would be a kick to the danger zone, the players' panic, do a handball to someone else, who gives it back to the initial person who gets tackled and hastenly handballs to the opposition who rebound very quickly.

Is the first instinct in junior footy to play in the same style as Brisbane, Sydney, Collingwood or Geelong?

They all play with different game styles, so which one do kids first start playing?

The point is that game style is coached into you. We are having problems because many of the players have been coached in a particular way for 10 years and now have a different style. The younger players will adapt to the style quickly, whereas there will be others with habits that are harder to break.

As you keep playing your instinct because what you train to do.

I dare say that the comment was made by a commentator who played the game in a time where handballing was frowned upon.

Why does Bailey need to explain his plan? He only needs to explain that to the board. He'll do it if he wants to, but he has no need to do it.

Why does Bailey need to explain his plan? He only needs to explain that to the board. He'll do it if he wants to, but he has no need to do it.

For heavens sake, if MFC was a company in the normal sense, the receivers would be called in now, and Bailey would have to start explaining to the shareholders/bankers - members & supporters.

FHS, this club is being gutted, and the people in charge (Bailey and other coaches) are saying "trust me". And nothing else!!

FFS

Is the first instinct in junior footy to play in the same style as Brisbane, Sydney, Collingwood or Geelong?

They all play with different game styles, so which one do kids first start playing?

Why does Bailey need to explain his plan? He only needs to explain that to the board. He'll do it if he wants to, but he has no need to do it.

Footy is pretty basic. Good junior sides are coached in the basics, the frills get overlaid onto the basics. You choose your particular style to suit your strengths. There is a point where if you try to force a style so against basic instinct, you end up with chaos.

I agree Bailey doesn't need to publicly explain the finer details let alone his secrets for success (we hope!), but like 45hotgod said, MFC needs the coach to empathise with fans. "If we can feel we're on the same page, it would make these losses easier to take". Right now communication between those in charge (coaching staff) and the fans is pretty important (after all the ski season is not far away

Seriously we will all stick with them through thick and thin, but there's lots who won't. And the club's not that strong. And I want to watch competitive footy, not a whole season of what we've seen so far.

Bailey is trying o do his best with a sub-standard list, as Paul Keating once said, "it's the recession that we had to have"

the thing is this 'sub standard' list was doing alright up until last year, if you look at it the team is not much different than 2-3-4 years ago

What are the junior footy 'basics' that we are going against that West Coast doesn't?

I think that it sounds like a commentator who played footy in an era where the gameplan was all long kicking and he is using that as his reference for 'natural instincts'. Natural instincts are different for everyone and I think that it's got a lot to do with coaching.

The gameplan isn't natural yet, if they keep doing it then it will be.

What are the junior footy 'basics' that we are going against that West Coast doesn't?

I think that it sounds like a commentator who played footy in an era where the gameplan was all long kicking and he is using that as his reference for 'natural instincts'. Natural instincts are different for everyone and I think that it's got a lot to do with coaching.

The gameplan isn't natural yet, if they keep doing it then it will be.

The natural instinct of the game is to get the ball though the big sticks at the end.

How do you want to do that?

As quickly and efficiently as possible. One thing I noticed about Judd today, he always looks to move the ball forward at all costs. Never looks sideways, always tries to get the ball moving quickly to the forward line.

I would just like someone, preferably the coach, to come and out tell me what they are trying to get this team of footballers to do

My gut feeling is that Bailey is doing very little with the "game plan", what he is doing is watching.

Watching who does what in a game, how they play, whether they have any place in the future of the MFC.

My opinion is that Bailey is simply letting games play out to judge the depth and character of players presently on the list. A portfolio is being built up, who stays, who goes and who needs more development.

Why do I think this? Several reasons.

1) Flooding. Not happening. Why not?

Why let a team be thrashed week, in week out? When Alistair Clarkson took over at Hawthorn, he had a very ugly game plan, flooding and tagging. Why? Because, and he stated this publically, he didn't want his young players, who were not yet up to playing against men, to be damaged psychologically by the experience of heavy losses.

Why isn't Bailey flooding? Because many of these players won't be here next year, the game results are meaningless. We are playing games to see who can play and who can't, not to win, not to restrict opposition scores and maintain percentage.

2) Single game players.

Watch each week as players are brought in for a single game, then left apparently outmatched in positions. (Bode, Garland et al).

3) Baileys reaction.

Press conferences, calm, collected. Seemingly not upset at results on the ground. Of course he isn't, he’s not playing to win, but to review the list in preparation for the next 5 years.

How can he come out and say this publically, imagine a coach saying in public "I don't care about winning games, I just want to see who is up to AFL level and who isn’t", he would be crucified for tanking, and the supporters and sponsors would desert the club.

Of course I could be completely wrong, there is one other frightening possibility. Is Bailey the new Peter Rhodes? Perhaps he couldn't coach an Auskick side?

As quickly and efficiently as possible. One thing I noticed about Judd today, he always looks to move the ball forward at all costs. Never looks sideways, always tries to get the ball moving quickly to the forward line.

Yep. noticed it too. Possibly this is becuase he has the skills to do it !!.He has very good peripheral. Bu tthe otyher thing was that Carlton were positioning themselves to be able to go forward.. we dot run fast enough or get to the right places in time I think. Hence the hesitations.and tendencies to sideways movements. Its all very well to get it OK at practice..but when the speed pace picks up in a game you found wanting.. maybe we just need another 10% ?

My gut feeling is that Bailey is doing very little with the "game plan", what he is doing is watching.

...

If this is so, and I don't think it is, than we have a psychopath for a coach.

Mind you, nothing else that is going on makes any sense at all, so .....

What are the junior footy 'basics' that we are going against that West Coast doesn't?

The gameplan isn't natural yet, if they keep doing it then it will be.

Maybe. We hope. If it's a gameplan that the players we've got can ever master.

Junior footy basics, the natural instincts, are as someone else said, exactly what Judd does to perfection. Win the footy, run fast with it into space, looking ahead towards goal and kick to the best option. It's a game of percentages and as well as the skills, Judd has the brain to instinctively assess & make good choices. I would want my juniors to watch & copy Judd.

On the other hand, Melbourne is a case study in what they mustn't do.

I know it's not junior footy, but on the other hand we're not even competitive with whatever it is we're trying to do.

You rarely see Judd going sideways or backwards, he's always streaming forward, finding space and kicking to a target towards goal. Never fiddling around, preference for penetrating kicks not handball. We've got players who are good at that. Why have they suddenly stopped doing it?

What would Bailey have Judd doing in a Melbourne side?

Bailey just needs to tell us what's going on, so we can all support whatever it is. It's hard to support some unknown 'plan' when week after week there's so few positives.

I dare say that the comment was made by a commentator who played the game in a time where handballing was frowned upon.

I'd doubt this. Handball has been with us in a big way ever since the second half of the 1970 Grand Final.

My gut feeling is that Bailey is doing very little with the "game plan", what he is doing is watching.

Watching who does what in a game, how they play, whether they have any place in the future of the MFC.

My opinion is that Bailey is simply letting games play out to judge the depth and character of players presently on the list. A portfolio is being built up, who stays, who goes and who needs more development.

I totally agree. There is no doubt he hates losing but I agree that this is exactly what he is doing. It had to happen. Where this list will take as though...?

This is what Bailey has to say on the MFC web site about where we're going:

When asked post-match if he was frustrated by Melbourne's plight, Bailey remained upbeat about correcting the club's situation.

"I'm here to improve. I'm here to improve the football club and I'm here to improve players," Bailey said.

"We're going to continue to look for improvement each week and I'm going to get on the training track and work hard and I've used the word competitive and we need to be competitive for longer and we're going to get it done - we are just going to get it done.

"The more opportunities we play and the more opportunities we train, we're going to knock the wall down and get there.

"The players have worked particularly hard and we've spent a lot of focus this week on our skills - we were a little bit better than last week - but they're still not good enough or acceptable enough and we've got to keep working at it.

"There is no other quick remedy around the corner - it's head down, work hard and get a fit list and see what we've got."

Bailey was pressed on a timeframe for turning Melbourne around, but he was adamant the process was an ongoing reality.

"The timeframe or the date or the minute or the hour - it starts after this game with recovery, then it starts on Monday when we review the game and then Tuesday when we get back to our development class, where we look at kicking and handballing, and it's those things we need to continually work on, so we work on them all of the time," Bailey said.

"To give you an exact date of when it's going to start or finish - as long as we're improving and as long as we're putting the time into it - the improvement will come and we intend to put a lot of time into it."

And his impassioned plea to us all:

Meanwhile, Bailey made a passionate plea to the red and blue faithful for their "understanding and persistence through this tough time".

"I think it's great that we actually had Melbourne people come today - Melbourne members and supporters come today," Bailey said.

"It's important that they continue to support us and there is no doubt that we not only need their support, but we need their assistance and we need members and we need people coming to the game.

"It was great that they attended today and we need you to stick with us, because it is tough times, but through tough times there are blue skies coming and we're heading towards it, so we need Melbourne people to continue to support the club."

He's asking us to have faith, and to trust his belief that through more and more training, it's all going to come right. Personally I would like to hear more from Bailey on what exactly our faith is in, what is the big-picture grand plan that he's working and training towards. I wish him and the boys every success, it must be tough getting up Monday morning and facing that review of yesterday!

I would've thought Dean would adapt a style of play that suits the list we currently have. As the older players are retired OR delisted, then change the style to suit the new younger list. I dont understand why we need to persist with a plan that the majority, or at least the experienced players, struggle with.

Yeah Keating also said something about us becoming a banana republic. Keep trying to play like we are and we'll be the basket case of the comp.

We've been a basket case for several years now, you just had to look at how insipidly we'd drop out of the finals in previous years. Any time a club applies just a little bit of pressure and we'd fold. We need to clear out the majority of our 24 plus players and rebuild the list. First pick this year will help but we probably need to back it up with the first two picks the following year as well.

the thing is this 'sub standard' list was doing alright up until last year, if you look at it the team is not much different than 2-3-4 years ago

No, we weren't doing alright. We were finishing middle of the table, it's just that this competition rewards half of the teams with finals so average teams get it. If you wanted a realistic evaluation of where we were at then you had to look at our finals results, which were quite simply terrible.

I would've thought Dean would adapt a style of play that suits the list we currently have. As the older players are retired OR delisted, then change the style to suit the new younger list. I dont understand why we need to persist with a plan that the majority, or at least the experienced players, struggle with.

So what game plan suits underskilled lazy players with poor leadership and a poor work ethic?

Might I ask which senior players do you think will be around in 12 months time?

Maybe. We hope. If it's a gameplan that the players we've got can ever master.

Junior footy basics, the natural instincts, are as someone else said, exactly what Judd does to perfection. Win the footy, run fast with it into space, looking ahead towards goal and kick to the best option. It's a game of percentages and as well as the skills, Judd has the brain to instinctively assess & make good choices. I would want my juniors to watch & copy Judd.

On the other hand, Melbourne is a case study in what they mustn't do.

I know it's not junior footy, but on the other hand we're not even competitive with whatever it is we're trying to do.

You rarely see Judd going sideways or backwards, he's always streaming forward, finding space and kicking to a target towards goal. Never fiddling around, preference for penetrating kicks not handball. We've got players who are good at that. Why have they suddenly stopped doing it?

What would Bailey have Judd doing in a Melbourne side?

Bailey just needs to tell us what's going on, so we can all support whatever it is. It's hard to support some unknown 'plan' when week after week there's so few positives.

Mate, I see alot of junior football and there alots of natural instincts. Just no Chris Judd. Measuring other players to Judd is like measuring all leg spinners against Warne.....you gonna come with a gulf of difference and efforts to falsely reduce it just look silly. Judds preference is for great disposal by foot or hand based on pace, unrivalled balance and rapid decision making. We have no one with those attitudes.

Think hard what were Carlton like without Judd and Fevola last year. We played them twice last year. Judd does what Bailey would want any player to do...pick the right option and execute. Judd is still too quick for most of the tripe at Carlton.

Bailey only needs to explain to the Board who appointed him. Its a bit of a dream that supporters will understand the game plan. On the whole they rarely do.