Sorry StevenStretch, the very fact he is in the player-voted leadership group shows he gives us something.

The thread is about changes for next week - if Miller plays like he did yesterday - very frequently providing an option up forward, showing a desire to get involved physically and to chase, unlike some (cough, Robbo, cough), then he shouldn't be dropped.

Yer he gives us something..... on the training track quite clearly in games nothing.

Steven, we are still too short downback and I'm also not convinced with Brad Miller @CHF. Dutchy can do both roles, as he has demonstrated before where as Miller is no backman we all know that!!!

This year we certainly are not going to win a flag so what benefit will we get from playing dutchy? I like dutchy and he does have a real crack but we'd be better off with Martin or Frawley.

Why does Miller's name keep coming up.... Until someone establishes themselves as a better option, there is no point bringing in someone who is not ready... Has bring Garland into the team been a success, they need to prove themselves in the seconds to deserve their chance.. People should not undervalue his leadership!

Did Whelan play on the weekend in the twos? If not, then we cannot risk bringing someone in without match fitness.

In Bate

Out Garland

We might just have a winning side soon!

Go MFC

Why does Miller's name keep coming up.... Until someone establishes themselves as a better option, there is no point bringing in someone who is not ready... Has bring Garland into the team been a success, they need to prove themselves in the seconds to deserve their chance.. People should not undervalue his leadership!

Did Whelan play on the weekend in the twos? If not, then we cannot risk bringing someone in without match fitness.

In Bate

Out Garland

We might just have a winning side soon!

Go MFC

Whelan was close to BOG for Sandy [Crowe was also outstanding].

We'd need to know the status of Bate, Moloney, Frawley and Whelan before we can really make the call.

I'd say Frawley in for Garland. Or simply Garland out and select from the above.

Other players who should be nervous -

C. Johnson - out for Whelan, Moloney or Bate. Poor CJ just hasn't been able to stand out.

Robertson - out for Bate, though there still seems to be a wait on Bate. Maybe just out, with Miller as filler.

Sylvia - Better perform soon or people will start throwing things at him. Bate and Moloney are both better options, if fit.

I disagree about dropping Davey - while weak so far this year, he has started to put it back together again - a half step closer to slamming into his prey, each game. Not far off being 'back', I reckon.

Rivers, Bartram and Dunn are other statistical low-performers from Sunday. All returning from injury, all putting in the effort, all likely to be better next week. Sounds good.

Why does Miller's name keep coming up.... Until someone establishes themselves as a better option, there is no point bringing in someone who is not ready... Has bring Garland into the team been a success,

For some reason many Demonlanders really like talking about him. Was encouraged by his first half yesterday and agree with the point - when a better option arises it should be used - otherwise he is not getting dropped.

Yer he gives us something..... on the training track quite clearly in games nothing.

Who is this stretch guy?

Never heard so much crap on Demonland, the most biased arguments, second only to YM's rants about Bruce (but his are funny, these are just dumb). Miller is not the most talented guy in the AFL but to think that we would drop him when he played quite well is ludacris.

1. Strong leading

2. Took steady marks

3. Actually kicked the ball

4. Used his strength fairly

5. Continually made a contest

As if he doesn't deserve another game. He isn't going to be an All Australian but lets face it, who the hell is from our side? His position is a role, nothing more. He is asked to play as a lead up CHF, when it comes to his position and the structure of the team, he is perfect for the job.

Before you rave on about a guy who obviously has great leadership qualities. Have a think about other people in that group, Robbo and Yze both shouldn't be in there. Your captain doesn't and shouldn't be the most talented player at the club, if that was the case we should have had T Johnstone as captain. The captaincy, leadership group should be given to people who work hard for the team, does his job and bleeds the club.

Wake up.

Rivers, Bartram and Dunn are other statistical low-performers from Sunday. All returning from injury, all putting in the effort, all likely to be better next week. Sounds good.

Lies. damn lies and statistics.

You can play a very effective role for your team without racking up a mountain of stats

i would like to see chris johnson get more than one game and play him again this week....

this season will be about who can and cannot play - he looks as though he cannot but hard to tell when pressure is on just to get a kick...

robbo would be the one for matthew bate.... if bate is fit, then he could play that leadup role too... i think robbo needs a wakeup call....

whelan in for garland - looks out of his depth at the moment but some experience wont hurt the young man!!

Davey's second half was much better, he is just playing himself into form as are several others.

He will be better for 4 quarters this week.

Lies. damn lies and statistics.

You can play a very effective role for your team without racking up a mountain of stats

I agree completely. I guess I was just wrapping it up by saying - 'here's the others who didn't look so good on paper', but they're obviously not in the 'could be dropped' category.

All three played heavily defensive roles, and did so with discipline. Their return to our team is a soure of optimism, particularly as they each get some more run in their legs and more comfortable with AFL intensity again (Bartram and Rivers have both missed a year, after all).

Of course he shouldn't, but do you honestly think he has the same speed and explosiveness that he did when he started? I don't IMO.

No. But the loss of speed should not be not attributable to age.

Given his talents and MFC's weakness I dont see the benefit in running him at Sandy

You can play a very effective role for your team without racking up a mountain of stats

Particularly in defence where you neutralise or beat your opponent.

You can also be ineffectual and invisible but still have 30 to 35 stats in todays game. Its not the significant yardstick for performance it used to be.

Sorry but one bloke here who is escaping all critisism is Davey. Having Oz in the team made me think back to how good davey was when he cared - he runs around all day with nothing short of token pressure, he does not look the slightest bit dangerous.

Out - Garland, Robertson, Chris Johnson, Davey, Miller

In - Bate, Buckley, Newton, Frawley, Maric

Radical changes but the blokes listed as ins are not lony better then the out they are also younger and have more potential. Davey is an exception he just needs a wake up call he has given us nothing in a very long time.

Now I guess I am open to public lashing

A loss should never be acceptable, even if it is against the reigning premier, but why would there be 5 changes after the weekends game/ And with players who did FA at Sandy? Lets keep it real!

In: Bate & Moloney (if ready)

Out: Robbo, CJ

Robbo needs to become team oriented. CJ should have an extended run before the end of the year to see if he's up to it. There is better available now.

Of the side that played yesterday I think only Garland is clearly not ready, he has looked out of his depth in all 3 games.

Whelan, Moloney and Bate would be good inclusions although I don't believe Bate has played at Sandy yet. He should get a few kicks with the Zebs before getting a Demons jumper.

Is there anything we can do to get Carrol out of the cage, he has been terrible for 11 qtrs out of 12?

carroll?? surely tongue in cheek....

he has battled manfully against bigger players and the ball coming in on a silver tray with no pressure from the midfield...

far from our worst player...

i for one think that a haircut would be a good start!! if you cannot play, at least look like a footballer....

Carroll has been fantastic for us this year, one of the best!

OUT- Garland, CJ

In- Frawley, Buckley

Im not sure where Wheels can come in? Who can he come in for? I Think Bartram has overtaken him somewhat? Bell?

Carroll has been fantastic for us this year, one of the best!

OUT- Garland, CJ

In- Whelan, Buckley

I want IN - BATE.

Whelan would be a nice return and hoping to all hope, his kick-in skills are up to scratch.

Carroll has been fantastic for us this year, one of the best!

Im not sure where Wheels can come in? Who can he come in for? I Think Bartram has overtaken him somewhat? Bell?

You're kidding right. The man can't handball 10 metres to rush a behind with confidence. He gifted Hawkins 3 goals on the goal line, albeit aided by Jeff White.

As for Whelan, are we 0-3 or 3-0. If we argue you can't find a spot for Whelan based on the fact there is no-one to drop from a team that has been beaten 3 times by a collective margin of 220+ points we are in chronic denial. And I am not talking about a river in Egypt

I want IN - BATE.

Whelan would be a nice return and hoping to all hope, his kick-in skills are up to scratch.

Considering its the Kanga's, how about:

In: Whelan, Bate, Martin

Out: Garland, Johnson.C, Robertson

Line up:

Whelan Carroll Martin

Bell Rivers Bruce

Bartram McLean Morton

White Jones McDonald

Bate Miller Sylvia

Davey Neitz Green

I/C Johnson.P, Wheatley, Dunn, Wonaemirri

Bate would be a straight swap for Robertson

Whelan a straight swap for Garland

Martin as the smokey to take on Nathan Thompson

Bartram to tag Boomer Harvey

You're kidding right. The man can't handball 10 metres to rush a behind with confidence. He gifted Hawkins 3 goals on the goal line, albeit aided by Jeff White.

As for Whelan, are we 0-3 or 3-0. If we argue you can't find a spot for Whelan based on the fact there is no-one to drop from a team that has been beaten 3 times by a collective margin of 220+ points we are in chronic denial. And I am not talking about a river in Egypt

So you would drop carroll for that?

Other than that he has been great! i admit yes that was shocking that failed rush behind, but apart from that he has been excellent and with Rivers back our backline looks so much better with Carroll and Rivers being the main men.

Tell me who u would drop for wheels then APART from carroll.

The only ones i see that play his type of role are bell and bartram. So you would drop one of them?

My changes would be:

IN: Whelan, Moloney (if fit)

OUT: Garland, Robertson

I would play Sylvia in Robertson's position and give him one week to prove himself. If Sylvia fails, he goes out for Robbo the week after.

I think Robbo still has a place in our side, but not when his attitude is so poor. He played from behind at the Cattery when we were kicking into the wind, when he gets further up the ground he doesn't run hard and has no idea what options to pick, and he is not tackling, shepherding or doing the 1%ers. He needs a disciplinary spell.

I would definitely give CJ another week. We have high hoped for him and he needs a fair crack at it.

So you would drop carroll for that?

Other than that he has been great! i admit yes that was shocking that failed rush behind, but apart from that he has been excellent and with Rivers back our backline looks so much better with Carroll and Rivers being the main men.

Tell me who u would drop for wheels then APART from carroll.

The only ones i see that play his type of role are bell and bartram. So you would drop one of them?

Agree Mousey, he's not the most elegant of players and yes he does bonehead things from time to time but he's a strong mark and he always tries his best. i think he's responded really well to the way he has conducted himself in the off season. Whelan, Rivers and Carroll I would argue is a solid backline. People don't actually point out that Carroll reads the play really well. The amount of well-judged marks he has taken this year is enough to keep me enthused about his performance thus far.

Considering its the Kanga's, how about:

In: Whelan, Bate, Martin

Out: Garland, Johnson.C, Robertson

Line up:

Whelan Carroll Martin

Bell Rivers Bruce

Bartram McLean Morton

White Jones McDonald

Bate Miller Sylvia

Davey Neitz Green

I/C Johnson.P, Wheatley, Dunn, Wonaemirri

Bate would be a straight swap for Robertson

Whelan a straight swap for Garland

Martin as the smokey to take on Nathan Thompson

Bartram to tag Boomer Harvey

DeeReaming your analysis on what should be the ins/outs are nearly always spot on every week.

The only other possible change would be Sylvia OUT - Moloney IN !!!!

I didn't say drop him, just get him out of the defensive goal square (cage).

I am fully aware however there is no-one to replace him with.