It seems to me that Jeff White is only playing about 50% of the time in the ruck and round the grounds. Is he not considered good enough, or is he nearing the end and not fit enough? Either way, Johnson is improving by the week, and it seems stupid that we still have baggage such as Jamar to carry around. Hopefully Meesen will come on, but we really do need a quality combination as white's career winds down. As for Stefan Martin, he looked a likely type for Sandy last year, especially noticable was his goal kicking ability. Any ideas on our best combination in the next few years?

Provided the rest of the year continues as it has so far Johnson will soon overtake White as the #1 ruckman.

Never seen Meesen or Martin play so can't comment on them and Trent Zomer (who I've seen first hand) isn't tall enough

It seems to me that Jeff White is only playing about 50% of the time in the ruck and round the grounds. Is he not considered good enough, or is he nearing the end and not fit enough? Either way, Johnson is improving by the week, and it seems stupid that we still have baggage such as Jamar to carry around. Hopefully Meesen will come on, but we really do need a quality combination as white's career winds down. As for Stefan Martin, he looked a likely type for Sandy last year, especially noticable was his goal kicking ability. Any ideas on our best combination in the next few years?

Martin sounds like he's being groomed as a Key Defender. From reports, he's making a pretty good fist of it as well.

Meesen is too soft upstairs to be a good ruckman; he is an athlete first and a footballer second.

I like PJ. He's no athlete but terrific size and fine skills for a man mountain. His kicking for goal needs work though.

White has been a gun for us, but he must realise the death knell is sounding.

the thing is white will stay number one ruckman for the rest of the year which really [censored] me!!

Meesen is too soft upstairs to be a good ruckman; he is an athlete first and a footballer second.

seen him play ??

too soft upstairs to be a good ruckman....what do you allude to ??

seen him play ??

too soft upstairs to be a good ruckman....what do you allude to ??

I've heard that he is a bit of a hypercondriac. I have seen him play a bit; he plays like an outside midfielder. Doesn't have the physical presence to be a long-term ruck option. It speaks volumes that, of the 3 pre-season games I watched, not once did I see him genuinely in a ruck contest. He's got decent skills and is obviously a fine athlete, but like I said, upstairs he ain't a footballer, let alone a ruckman.

Rucked half the day...did ok I thought..easily won most of his hitouts....must be another Meeson !! lol. A lot of talls play as outside.. bit big to get in and under.. White does same

Im sure if any of our ruckmen were better than White they would be Number 1 but they aren't. I think people expect to much from White considering Ruckmen have been taken out of the game to some extent

Rucked half the day...did ok I thought..easily won most of his hitouts....must be another Meeson !! lol. A lot of talls play as outside.. bit big to get in and under.. White does same

I don't have a problem with how he plays around the ground. I just seriously doubt he has the physicality and hardness to be a good ruck option at AFL level. White had a leap to make up for his lack of size, before the rules changed and his influence was somewhat curbed. Without knowing who Meesen was up against, I think it's fair to say that AFL is a different kettle of fish to VFL.

Meeson has inches on White ..Jeff NEEDS to jump a bit higher !! lol. id like to see a bit more meat on him ( Meeson ) ...he's only in his early 20's. Iwill watch more of him before really makig my mind up whterh he wil be better rucking per se..or as a KPP pitch hitting as #2

More than a few Scorps found him a handful to hang on to today.. but agree AFL is a different pond

The actual ruck contest is important, but what makes a ruckmen vital to the team is an ability to fill a gap up forward or slot into the midfield. Good ruckmen, like Dean Cox influence the play outside of the centre circle. Since Jeff White does not do that anymore, and PJ is at least involving himself in contests, he should be our number one ruck.

You can win 100 taps a match, but if they are not effective taps, and if you spend the rest of the match covering for the goal post, than you are useless. That's why Jamar won't make it.

I rather a ruckman who breaks even in the centre, but contributes to the game, than a ruckman who wins 100% of the taps but does nothing outside of that.

Centre breaks make up a small percentage of play within a match, if that's the ruckman's only contribution than I rather have an extra midfielder on the bench.

Meesen needs gametime. Get him in sooner than later. Also reserves in my supercoach :D

I think Meesen should be selected next week..pronto..get him game time and success will follow...all the fitness attributes are there and from all reports can really tap to his teams advantage.

Im sick of seeing white tap it to the other team! lol

Where does everyone think White could play other than the ruck? Forward or Back?

white would make a good forward, because of his accuracy and his leap (which seems to have deserted him recently). despite this, i still think that he could be more readily utilised around the grounds, more than johnson anyway, because of his skill level which is relatively high. play him as a loose man in defense, just like cox does for west coast.

What about Jeff White at CHF - This allows Johnson and Meesen to play in the ruck. Jeff White is an accurate long kick at goal. I think we could do worse than use him for about 15 mins per qtr at CHF. He does not have the endurance for the whole game but I think he would enjoy roaming around.

What about Jeff White at CHF - This allows Johnson and Meesen to play in the ruck. Jeff White is an accurate long kick at goal. I think we could do worse than use him for about 15 mins per qtr at CHF. He does not have the endurance for the whole game but I think he would enjoy roaming around.

the last thing we need is another useless person "roaming" in our almost vacant half foward line.

Im sure if any of our ruckmen were better than White they would be Number 1 but they aren't. I think people expect to much from White considering Ruckmen have been taken out of the game to some extent

Dean Cox, Brad Ottens, Brendan Lade et all disagree

the last thing we need is another useless person "roaming" in our almost vacant half foward line.

Indeed.

White has been tried up forward. At best he can float in and out and take some marks and kick the odd goal, but he is not a permanent forward.

The sooner we recognise that his career is just about done, the better. Just because he has been a very good ruckman and player for us for many years (and nobody will argue that), does not mean we now need to carry him every week if he isn't pulling his weight.

I don't have a problem with him doing some rucking, but he needs to start contributing around the ground more, otherwise he can finish his career down at Sandy.

I was happy with the ruck situation at the weekend - both White and Johnson shared the role, taking their 'breaks' playing as the CHF. Interesting to ntoe that 30% of Johnson's taps were effective, 10% more than White. I reckon PJ should be starting first ruck by mid-season at the latest

Provided the rest of the year continues as it has so far Johnson will soon overtake White as the #1 ruckman.

Never seen Meesen or Martin play so can't comment on them and Trent Zomer (who I've seen first hand) isn't tall enough

Zomer was drafted and is being used as a key forward. Maybe you're thinking of Spencer who is tall enough and i reckon has a good future. Kicking as to be worked on but his tapwork around the ground are excellant.

Believe you will find Zomer wants to be a ruckman

The sad part of our ruck dilemmas IMO is that Jamar is easily the most effective TAP ruckman we have , but also the most ineffective in all other areas of the caper .

Meesen = White men cant jump

I like PJ. He's no athlete but terrific size and fine skills for a man mountain. His kicking for goal needs work though.

I would argue the opposite here. He's got an enormous engine usually. Runs al day long, and is surprisingly quick. Outran Acker last year, which takes some doing even when he's injured. PJ's kick is also better than you suggest. Yes his goalkicking could improve, but over his time at MFC from what I've seen it's a strength. He gets fair distance too without being a 55 metre specialist. His form as he kicks is better than Robbo, who in recent years has been startlingly accurate.

PJ is one of those development players who had so many unearthed treasures, but a couple of chronic weaknesses that kept him from showing his strengths. Namely overhead stuff, including tapwork, along with his decision making. It seems he's still a long way from making those areas strengths, but as long as he can keep them from crippling his confidence, his size, engine, kicking boot, and general heart will shine through. Most of all I just like that he has a dip, and has zero arrogance.