good to hear about bartram and rivers!!! wonder wa is the matter with wheels??

good to hear about bartram and rivers!!! wonder wa is the matter with wheels??

Look to be honest, all the players looked disinterested at the stoppages because it was an absolute sauna out there. They might be VERY slowly getting him back to full strength maybe for round 4 or 5 because if he gets injured again that may be it. It seems like this is the last chance to get him 100% right again.

An outstanding and accurate summary of the flawed association b/w MFC and Sandy Phoenix.

I think zebgrowler's misplaced arrogance is counterbalanced by fundamental ignorance.

As a Sandringham supporter and member for over 50 years I dont think Im being arrogant at all and I would suggest a majority of supporters like me also wouldnt care if the alliance with the MFC stopped tomorrow.

Especially when you have your fans Rhino Richards ilk every year ( esp this season when it looks like the MFC will finish in the bottom eight) whingeing about Sandy not promoting MFC rookies at the expence of Sandringham success. You should be looking closer to home for your problems.

Why do you think that since the alliance the crowds at TBO have fallen away so badly?Ill tell you why, half the Zebra supporters have given up going and only a hand full of Melbourne diehards attend.

I dont consider the 4 flags won during the Melbourne alliance era as valid as the ones that were won when the SFC was stand alone 1985, 1992, 1994 and 1997 so dont fool yourselves that Sandy were not successfull before the MFC came along.

I am also certain the the SFC wouldnt be long without an AFL partner club if they wanted one if Melbourne were to go alone.

Remember Melbourne wanted the partnership with the SFC in 2000 as you were, as now broke, and couldnt afford a reserves side of your own.

The major flaw in the Victorian alliance model is the AFL players from one club go to one VFL club unlike WA and SA where the AFL players are spread throughout the competioion.

Other Notes: We didn't have a ruckman which was staggering. Surely they could have played one of Meesen, Johnson or Jamar OR Spencer.

Any questions fire away.

Pretty sure I saw Meesen shopping for a new mobile at Chadstone today so that's why he wasn't there.

The only MFC players permitted to play were those who might have had their pre seasons interrupted by injury etc. so Messen wouldn't have been eligible. The condtions were oppressive for those watching (even super fit blokes like myself ) so I wouldn't read too much into itt as far as an older player like Whelan was concerned. He's still short of a gallop or two and I suspect the club will take a conservative line with him and with Bartram and also probably with Rivers.

Cameron Bruce looked the goods and I think that Dunn and Wheatley will join him in the Melbourne team in a week's time. CJ and Frawley would be line ball depending on what positions need to be covered. There was talk at the ground that Austin Wonaeamirri might get promoted off the rookie list and Jack Grimes included as a long term injury listed player but there's nothing to really substantiate this. I agree about Cale Morton - he looks like a player of the future but probably not in the immediate short term.

Agree with most of what you said:

- Cale Morton - the 'snap' from 50 metres was excellent but at times the game passed him by. Agree that he could be anything, he looks very skinny so may take some time to develop.

- Wheatley - Still looks dashing when running with the ball.....and then runs out of ideas. He had a couple of runs that looked good until he couldn't decide what to do with the football and turned it over. There's an opportunity for him to take the next step, but is he good enough ? I have my doubts.

- Dunn - Surprised me. he has really bulked up and could be a dominator in the middle. He looked very good at times.

Bruce, Bartram, Rivers - All moved pretty well. Bartram really put in some good efforts.

The others you mentioned were pretty spot on.

Daniel Gribbin- His kO was when he flew for a mark and landed on his back. Took a while for him to get up.

Wheatley was the standout, Dunn did well and Bruce if fit will play against the hawks. Dunn is getting bigger in body each year and may end up a KPP. He ran with Gia in the first Q. In a run with role if he goes forward when we have the ball he could be very dangerous as he can lead as well as pack mark.

I was at the Q time huddle and Morton is very thin but gee he can play. He seems as tall as Dunn. DB said at the Breakfast he will play this year regardless of body size as he is good enough to adapt.

Wheatley was the standout, Dunn did well and Bruce if fit will play against the hawks. Dunn is getting bigger in body each year and may end up a KPP. He ran with Gia in the first Q. In a run with role if he goes forward when we have the ball he could be very dangerous as he can lead as well as pack mark.

I was at the Q time huddle and Morton is very thin but gee he can play. He seems as tall as Dunn. DB said at the Breakfast he will play this year regardless of body size as he is good enough to adapt.

I think most agree that in Daniher's whole tenure there was pretty much nobody to reach star/elite status. Bruce, Davey, Neitz, Johnstone, White, Yze etc all had their moments but none could really dominate consistently. McLean, Sylvia, Rivers etc have not come on as yet like we had hoped. Some blame CAC for simply picking the wrong players but IMO it had to have been due to our inabilty to actually develop the potential in our kids once we got our hands on them. Morton, Grimes, Maric and co. represent the first batch to be nurtured under a new regime and it will be EXTREMELY interesting in 4 or 5 years to see if any of them have blossomed in to all-australian quality players, or will we still be scratching our heads wondering what the problem is?

Wheatley was the standout, Dunn did well and Bruce if fit will play against the hawks. Dunn is getting bigger in body each year and may end up a KPP. He ran with Gia in the first Q. In a run with role if he goes forward when we have the ball he could be very dangerous as he can lead as well as pack mark.

I was at the Q time huddle and Morton is very thin but gee he can play. He seems as tall as Dunn. DB said at the Breakfast he will play this year regardless of body size as he is good enough to adapt.

As for Bruce playing next week - In previous years I'd say it would almost be a certainty. He is probably our best endurance runner... the only unknown is whether DB wont play blokes that haven't completed a certain amount of pre-season work.

I have high hopes for Dunn. I was very impressed with his tagging jobs last year, he still found plenty of the ball himself and can roost a goal from outside fifty. He's a tank now and can play forward if needed. He adds a lot of versatility. I'd certainly have Wheatley in my starting 22 for Sunday. I'll be very interested to see if Riv and Bartman are included as DB was suggested a while ago it was looking about rd 3 for both.

Did Stefan Martin play? How did he look?

Thanks for the recaps guys

Did Stefan Martin play? How did he look?

Thanks for the recaps guys

No he didn't play.

As for Bruce playing next week - In previous years I'd say it would almost be a certainty. He is probably our best endurance runner... the only unknown is whether DB wont play blokes that haven't completed a certain amount of pre-season work.

I have high hopes for Dunn. I was very impressed with his tagging jobs last year, he still found plenty of the ball himself and can roost a goal from outside fifty. He's a tank now and can play forward if needed. He adds a lot of versatility. I'd certainly have Wheatley in my starting 22 for Sunday. I'll be very interested to see if Riv and Bartman are included as DB was suggested a while ago it was looking about rd 3 for both.

If Dunn could improve his contested marking he could be anything

If Dunn could improve his contested marking he could be anything

You mean if he could mark like Matty Bate? I agree.

Agree with most of what you said:

- Cale Morton - the 'snap' from 50 metres was excellent but at times the game passed him by. Agree that he could be anything, he looks very skinny so may take some time to develop.

- Wheatley - Still looks dashing when running with the ball.....and then runs out of ideas. He had a couple of runs that looked good until he couldn't decide what to do with the football and turned it over. There's an opportunity for him to take the next step, but is he good enough ? I have my doubts.

- Dunn - Surprised me. he has really bulked up and could be a dominator in the middle. He looked very good at times.

Bruce, Bartram, Rivers - All moved pretty well. Bartram really put in some good efforts.

The others you mentioned were pretty spot on.

Daniel Gribbin- His kO was when he flew for a mark and landed on his back. Took a while for him to get up.

agree 100% 'Melbournepotter'.

As a Sandringham supporter and member for over 50 years I dont think Im being arrogant at all and I would suggest a majority of supporters like me also wouldnt care if the alliance with the MFC stopped tomorrow.

Especially when you have your fans Rhino Richards ilk every year ( esp this season when it looks like the MFC will finish in the bottom eight) whingeing about Sandy not promoting MFC rookies at the expence of Sandringham success. You should be looking closer to home for your problems.

Why do you think that since the alliance the crowds at TBO have fallen away so badly?Ill tell you why, half the Zebra supporters have given up going and only a hand full of Melbourne diehards attend.

I dont consider the 4 flags won during the Melbourne alliance era as valid as the ones that were won when the SFC was stand alone 1985, 1992, 1994 and 1997 so dont fool yourselves that Sandy were not successfull before the MFC came along.

I am also certain the the SFC wouldnt be long without an AFL partner club if they wanted one if Melbourne were to go alone.

Remember Melbourne wanted the partnership with the SFC in 2000 as you were, as now broke, and couldnt afford a reserves side of your own.

The major flaw in the Victorian alliance model is the AFL players from one club go to one VFL club unlike WA and SA where the AFL players are spread throughout the competioion.

I.m with you on this 'zebgrowler'.

Whelan, Bartram and Rivers look like being round 2 - 4 before being available due to the program they are on.

DB said at the breakfast that playerts bought back to early tend to reinjure themselves.

Just adding to my two bobs worth to the alliance debate.....

From people I have spoken to on the committee at Sandy, all have been in favour of the alliance....

I know for a fact that St Kilda wanted to align with Sandy...but they wanted ridiculous conditions...change the jumper...theme song etc...

That's why I was wrapt when Sandy told St Kilda where to go...as far as I'm concerned St Kilda are a losers club and when the alignment with Melbourne was announced I breathed a huge sigh of relief....I've even brought a MFC season ticket even though I most probably won't go and watch a game

Melbourne to their credit didn't want to change anything....

And so far in Sandy's case things have gone pretty well....and remember that in the 1st year of the alliance Melbourne played off in the Grand Final and I didn't see anyone complaining that Sandy were holding back Melbourne players...I've watched with interest the Melbourne players attitude when they play for Sandy and I would say 99% of the the players have been fantastic...I can only think of one player in particular who had a crap attitude and that was Brent Grgic..

However since then there seems to be a few people that want to blame Melbourne's lack of success on Sandy supposedly not developing Melbournes players....that our ground is sub standard...well Melbourne train there on a regular basis so it can't be that bad...there have also been some Melbourne listed players that have not been up to VFL standard...let alone AFL standard...Van Schalken comes to mind

As a Sandy supporter for near on 50 years I am all in favour of the alliance with Melbourne...and as a lapsed Essendon supporter I now hope that Melbourne do damn well...

However if there are enough people who don't want to continue the alliance then get them on the committee at Melbourne and go alone as Geelong and Collingwood have....

But in the short term, I would hope that Melbourne supporters actually go and buy a membership ticket...having North Melbourne in front of Melbourne in the membership totals is embarrasing...and North were being touted as heading north to the Gold Coast...

I think Dean Bailey is doing a pretty good job at Melbourne....ibut one thing that is staggering is the discipline problem with Colin Sylvia...how a player can break a curfew 2 weeks out from the start of the season is astounding....looks like he will play with Sandy next week...maybe he'll do a Steve Johnson and turn it around...I really hope that he does...but I would be hoping that all Melbourne supporters would be really [censored] off with Colin Sylvia and what he did...yes he's an excellent player...bit I compliment the Melbourne leadership group for having the balls to suspend him

For what its worth I hope Melbourne have a successful year in 2008...and that Sandy also have a successful year..

Just remember that Sandy are out to win the VFL premiership...we're playing to win....not to play a Melbourne listed player in a certain position...that's the way it is...don't like it?...then vote with your feets at the MFC AGM...

GO ZEBRAS...and DEMONS

Wheatley was the standout,

I hate to sound contrary, but I thought Wheatley was horrible. Turnovers directly cost at least 2 goals, kicks got smothered, passes went astray, etc. He provides much needed dash and yes the ground really is too small, so there's much congestion, but Wheatley's passing today showed why at best he's a reasonable AFL player and will never be elite.

And Dunn can "pack mark" ? Marking is what he really needs to improve, but I like him as a player. No star though.

For me Bruce was BOG and moved really well. There's no doubt he'll play round 1.

Just adding to my two bobs worth to the alliance debate.....

..

GO ZEBRAS...and DEMONS

Thanks Zebraman It's always good to get a relatively impartial view. Personally I have no real problem with the alliance and I think it's been beneficial for both parties - particularly the likes of Warnock, Martin and Valenti that may never have made it onto an AFL list without that partnership. I think people are getting carried away with the development of players.... afterall the captain himself said he'd gladly step down from FF when someone better qualified came along. Newton didn't take over from Sautner, he hasn't taken over from Neita - there are still flaws in his game that need to be worked on. My feeling is that the lack of development in the past has had more to do with the lack of coaching resources than a lack of opportunities. If they were good enough Sandy would play them in that position.

I hate to sound contrary, but I thought Wheatley was horrible. Turnovers directly cost at least 2 goals, kicks got smothered, passes went astray, etc. He provides much needed dash and yes the ground really is too small, so there's much congestion, but Wheatley's passing today showed why at best he's a reasonable AFL player and will never be elite.

And Dunn can "pack mark" ? Marking is what he really needs to improve, but I like him as a player. No star though.

For me Bruce was BOG and moved really well. There's no doubt he'll play round 1.

You are right, Wheatley did turn it over a fair bit but so did most in the windy, hot conditions. He got a lot of the ball though and usually does ok with it.

I knew my Dunn pack mark comment would get some attention but the way he is developing body wise it will not be long before he is a very good player.

You mean if he could mark like Matty Bate? I agree.

No, I'd hope that he'd take more than 5 marks a game, but if you're happy with that sort of performance then that's just swell

RE: Alliance.

IMO it has been good. I go to Sandy a few times each year but i would rather read a boring book than go and watch 'real seconds'. Its a great venue with a bit of atmosphere.

There is so much difference between VFL and AFL (in standard) that it matters little what positions you put them in a VFL. Maybe if you want to get some K's into legs you may want a player to play mid but other than that.

I am however sure that common sense most times would see a VFL coach play someone where they are best suited etc.

Just adding to my two bobs worth to the alliance debate.....

From people I have spoken to on the committee at Sandy, all have been in favour of the alliance....

Do Sandy consult Melbourne prior to recruiting senior players to your list?

Due to poor list management by Melbourne, there seemed to be an over-abundance of talls during the finals. Warnock, Bizzell, Ferguson and Garland were all playing in defence, yet Biddlecombe was the pick of the backline.

No, I'd hope that he'd take more than 5 marks a game, but if you're happy with that sort of performance then that's just swell

Which is pretty much how much Neita averaged for last year as well, but I digest... Bate's a good mark, if you want him to take 12 a game play across the HBF.

Do Sandy consult Melbourne prior to recruiting senior players to your list?

Due to poor list management by Melbourne, there seemed to be an over-abundance of talls during the finals. Warnock, Bizzell, Ferguson and Garland were all playing in defence, yet Biddlecombe was the pick of the backline.

I'd say that's more to do with our poor list management.