I watched with interest how our onballers and ruckmen prepared themselves prior to the game yesterday, then noted how much more professionally their Roos' opponents handled the same exercises .

Whilst the opposition performed their manouvers with finesse , aggression , and speed , ours were lethargic , carefree , careless , and moving at a casual pace .

This attitude in pre-match work has been prevalent for years now and reflects badly on not just the players but also the coaches who allow such ambivalence to creep in to our players' demeanors .

The old expression - 'you play as you train' , is as relevant now as ever , and in Melbourne's case , even moreso .

We've been cr@p at this for years now.. youre not the first to notice.. but its good that more do !!

We've been cr@p at this for years now.. youre not the first to notice.. but its good that more do !!

Will have a look at it next time and make up my own mind.

But still your right its just evrything to do with the club I look at North and see how much they get out of their players and in comparison to our mob its just rediculous. Talent wise i think were more gifted but jesus you wouldn't know it

The subject of pre game warmups has been floating around ..in and out over the years here. I actually thought it might have changed this year with different 'hired help' am surprised it hasnt ( not to this naked eye at least )..

As they say..""you start as you intend to proceed !!""

I watched with interest how our onballers and ruckmen prepared themselves prior to the game yesterday, then noted how much more professionally their Roos' opponents handled the same exercises .

Whilst the opposition performed their manouvers with finesse , aggression , and speed , ours were lethargic , carefree , careless , and moving at a casual pace .

This attitude in pre-match work has been prevalent for years now and reflects badly on not just the players but also the coaches who allow such ambivalence to creep in to our players' demeanors .

The old expression - 'you play as you train' , is as relevant now as ever , and in Melbourne's case , even moreso .

Yep, now we have found the answer to our problems, it all comes down to our warm-up..........what rubbish talk about clutching straws, now I understand why other clubs supporters think we are living in another planet....

I never really understood how in a team sport warm up on the ground before the banner breaking etc was an option. At least that appears to be over but I have noticed a distinct lack of intensity in the past about wanrmups and run throughs.

Yep, now we have found the answer to our problems, it all comes down to our warm-up..........what rubbish talk about clutching straws, now I understand why other clubs supporters think we are living in another planet....

Quite obviously it's not the simple 'answer to our problems ' and quite obviously you've never played any decent level of competitive sport because if you had you would understand the concepts of application and attitude and how they are interwoven directly with match performance.

I watched with interest how our onballers and ruckmen prepared themselves prior to the game yesterday, then noted how much more professionally their Roos' opponents handled the same exercises .

Whilst the opposition performed their manouvers with finesse , aggression , and speed , ours were lethargic , carefree , careless , and moving at a casual pace .

This attitude in pre-match work has been prevalent for years now and reflects badly on not just the players but also the coaches who allow such ambivalence to creep in to our players' demeanors .

The old expression - 'you play as you train' , is as relevant now as ever , and in Melbourne's case , even moreso .

Well noted! While I didn't see the game or the "warmup" I know exactly what you're talking about and posted my questions on the same a while ago. We seem to, judging by the initial lethargy at start of game time during the 2007 season specifically, go out onto the ground cold and actually seem to do our warm up during the actual game time of the first quarter

It struck me as very odd the slow starts we had in the vast majority of games this year. It seemed to be some time during the second quarter before we actually started to look like we were there to play.

It appeared as though the team had just run onto the ground without much of a warm up. Was there a new philosophy in the training department that decreed that all energy must be expended on the ground and none prior to the game?

I'm not having a dig at the training department but did find the slow starts baffling and whilst not an athlete myself, though siblings were junior state athletics champs trained by dad, it reminded me of how the best performances can sometimes follow an extended and lengthy warm up at almost competition level and to further my point once we had played for 40+ minutes and had some run in our legs we on many occasions in a losing game matched the opposition for the rest of the game after conceding the first quarter and a bit

Any one know of the match day approach in this regard cos I'd love to know if there was a change in the preparation?

cheers

Quite obviously it's not the simple 'answer to our problems ' and quite obviously you've never played any decent level of competitive sport because if you had you would understand the concepts of application and attitude and how they are interwoven directly with match performance.

You would not know what I have done , stick to reading books and watching Oprah, again you say a lot with little substance, jump on the band wagon of knockers who think they know what is going on, ahhh but as an old saying goes it's hard to sore with the eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys sums up some of our supporters doesn't it "joeboy"

You would not know what I have done , stick to reading books and watching Oprah, again you say a lot with little substance, jump on the band wagon of knockers who think they know what is going on, ahhh but as an old saying goes it's hard to sore with the eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys sums up some of our supporters doesn't it "joeboy"

Why don't you actually stick to the topic "demon 3165 "?

My original comments about pre game attitude and approach are logical and relevent , unlike your ridiculously vague and pointless asides where you wax lyrically about Foxtel and farm animals whilst ' playing the man rather than chasing the ball '

I watched with interest how our onballers and ruckmen prepared themselves prior to the game yesterday, then noted how much more professionally their Roos' opponents handled the same exercises .

Whilst the opposition performed their manouvers with finesse , aggression , and speed , ours were lethargic , carefree , careless , and moving at a casual pace .

This attitude in pre-match work has been prevalent for years now and reflects badly on not just the players but also the coaches who allow such ambivalence to creep in to our players' demeanors .

The old expression - 'you play as you train' , is as relevant now as ever , and in Melbourne's case , even moreso .

A few points stand out regarding your observation:

1. There are two distinct topics of conversation here, one questioning the level of technical expertise going into the warm ups, and the other whether our attitude is a problem -

I'll address the former

2. What we have been like in past years doesn't really serve in term of examining this year’s warm up routine, it's an evolving beast

3. Don't confuse bad attitude with a super relaxed approach to warm ups. The later is highly advantageous to the muscle bound, tightly packed, hamstring prone already fit footballer. You have to remember the warm up is not conditioning, it's simply to prepare them for the game physically and mentally. I would suggest that this pre-season we have performed exceptionally in term of injury prevention (during games) so from that point of view there is nothing to complain about

4. I prefer the description that you gave about the Melbfc warm ups better than I do the one you gave about the Roos, simply because my idea of warming up is to be as completely relaxed as possible, because it enables your body to loosen and open up better, and also the relaxed state flows over into the game to help prevent injuries, and also leaves them in a state of mind better equipped to execute game plans etc.

5. Besides popular belief, a relaxed body is better able to absorb heavy contact during the contest. An example being falling out of a top bunk, smashing to the floor whilst sleeping and getting up without even a bruise, and going back to sleep. (Happened to me when I was younger) Or a boxer needing to relax before and during his bout, or he is more prone to being knocked out. Or people surviving being hit by a car at speed whilst being heavily drunk. Also, you conserve your energy better for the game

6. Have an open mind, and don't just assume the worst with the Dee's - All is not as it seems

7. Go Demons!

A few points stand out regarding your observation:

1. There are two distinct topics of conversation here, one questioning the level of technical expertise going into the warm ups, and the other whether our attitude is a problem -

I'll address the former

2. What we have been like in past years doesn't really serve in term of examining this year’s warm up routine, it's an evolving beast

3. Don't confuse bad attitude with a super relaxed approach to warm ups. The later is highly advantageous to the muscle bound, tightly packed, hamstring prone already fit footballer. You have to remember the warm up is not conditioning, it's simply to prepare them for the game physically and mentally. I would suggest that this pre-season we have performed exceptionally in term of injury prevention (during games) so from that point of view there is nothing to complain about

4. I prefer the description that you gave about the Melbfc warm ups better than I do the one you gave about the Roos, simply because my idea of warming up is to be as completely relaxed as possible, because it enables your body to loosen and open up better, and also the relaxed state flows over into the game to help prevent injuries, and also leaves them in a state of mind better equipped to execute game plans etc.

5. Besides popular belief, a relaxed body is better able to absorb heavy contact during the contest. An example being falling out of a top bunk, smashing to the floor whilst sleeping and getting up without even a bruise, and going back to sleep. (Happened to me when I was younger) Or a boxer needing to relax before and during his bout, or he is more prone to being knocked out. Or people surviving being hit by a car at speed whilst being heavily drunk. Also, you conserve your energy better the game

6. Have an open mind, and don't just assume the worst with the Dee's - All is not as it seems

7. Go Demons!

Are we talking about AFL football here? Are you trying to tell me that someone who braces themselves before being bumped or tackled, is more susceptable to injury than someone who's relaxed or unsuspecting of the contact?

As for the mindset, I think it's horses for courses. Some players need to be wound up to play at their best, whilst others need to be relaxed. You can't say that playing on adrenaline is detrimental to a players performance.

Are we talking about AFL football here? Are you trying to tell me that someone who braces themselves before being bumped or tackled, is more susceptable to injury than someone who's relaxed or unsuspecting of the contact?

i specifically remember the troy symmonds injury in 2000 and listening to a doctor give an interview about the incident.

He said that had symmonds expected the bump, he would have tensed the muscles through his back and neck, and possibly would have broken a bone in either location. However, given that he was unprepared for the bump, the contact left him injured, but not to the degree he would have been had he expected the contact

Are we talking about AFL football here? Are you trying to tell me that someone who braces themselves before being bumped or tackled, is more susceptable to injury than someone who's relaxed or unsuspecting of the contact?

Your words, not mine - Not once did I mention anything to do with being unsuspecting of contact

You would be in the "Popular belief" category that I was referring to - I'll answer your question without the bolded bits thrown in:

Yes, I'm talking AFL here.

I never said they wouldn't brace themselves; there are two separate realities in terms of bracing for contact:

One is to go fully flexed and thus tense (you can't have it both ways) and to use "physical" force at the first contact - being extremely prone to injury

The other is to be in a relaxed state, but not in an "empty state" and able absorb impact, and for someone who has trained this skill, to be able redirect the opponents incoming force.

IN an AFL context, it is not simply a matter of being bold over or pushed out of a contest....on the contrary, it gives you the upper hand, to the extent that they come off worse than you would (Which I doubt any players or clubs have delved into as yet)

The trouble with AFL footballers in respect to conditioning, is that they push to many weights (amongst other things), and their bodies are actually very poorly conditioned specifically to the game they play. Clubs are onto it in on a very base level, but the body is a very "fine line" instrument. If there are imbalances (of which being too tense is one of them) then it will get found out pretty quickly. To get the advantage, you need to think outside of the box. I heard this quote from Einstein yesterday, and thought it appropriate:

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Your words, not mine - Not once did I mention anything to do with being unsuspecting of contact

You would be in the "Popular belief" category that I was referring to - I'll answer your question without the bolded bits thrown in:

Yes, I'm talking AFL here.

I never said they wouldn't brace themselves; there are two separate realities in terms of bracing for contact:

One is to go fully flexed and thus tense (you can't have it both ways) and to use "physical" force at the first contact - being extremely prone to injury

The other is to be in a relaxed state, but not in an "empty state" and able absorb impact, and for someone who has trained this skill, to be able redirect the opponents incoming force.

IN an AFL context, it is not simply a matter of being bold over or pushed out of a contest....on the contrary, it gives you the upper hand, to the extent that they come off worse than you would (Which I doubt any players or clubs have delved into as yet)

The trouble with AFL footballers in respect to conditioning, is that they push to many weights (amongst other things), and their bodies are actually very poorly conditioned specifically to the game they play. Clubs are onto it in on a very base level, but the body is a very "fine line" instrument. If there are imbalances (of which being too tense is one of them) then it will get found out pretty quickly. To get the advantage, you need to think outside of the box. I heard this quote from Einstein yesterday, and thought it appropriate:

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Once again not what I said - different topic of conversation. Focusing your energy on the game, can come in a relaxed state, and it doesn't need to be about a "gee up" for those who need it. You can reach your prime arousal level, and still be relaxed.

As Einstein had one of the great football brains, I'll take your word for it.

i specifically remember the troy symmonds injury in 2000 and listening to a doctor give an interview about the incident.

He said that had symmonds expected the bump, he would have tensed the muscles through his back and neck, and possibly would have broken a bone in either location. However, given that he was unprepared for the bump, the contact left him injured, but not to the degree he would have been had he expected the contact

Good example...

And one interesting point also is that back in 2000 - Simmonds had much less muscle development, than what he developed over at Freo.

Look at him now, he's one of the most Injury prone going around, I don't remember him being so in his days at Melbourne, apart from being decapitated by Long in 2000 (Case in Point)

That bump still sends a shiver just thinking about it

A few points stand out regarding your observation:

1. There are two distinct topics of conversation here, one questioning the level of technical expertise going into the warm ups, and the other whether our attitude is a problem -

I'll address the former

2. What we have been like in past years doesn't really serve in term of examining this year’s warm up routine, it's an evolving beast

3. Don't confuse bad attitude with a super relaxed approach to warm ups. The later is highly advantageous to the muscle bound, tightly packed, hamstring prone already fit footballer. You have to remember the warm up is not conditioning, it's simply to prepare them for the game physically and mentally. I would suggest that this pre-season we have performed exceptionally in term of injury prevention (during games) so from that point of view there is nothing to complain about

4. I prefer the description that you gave about the Melbfc warm ups better than I do the one you gave about the Roos, simply because my idea of warming up is to be as completely relaxed as possible, because it enables your body to loosen and open up better, and also the relaxed state flows over into the game to help prevent injuries, and also leaves them in a state of mind better equipped to execute game plans etc.

5. Besides popular belief, a relaxed body is better able to absorb heavy contact during the contest. An example being falling out of a top bunk, smashing to the floor whilst sleeping and getting up without even a bruise, and going back to sleep. (Happened to me when I was younger) Or a boxer needing to relax before and during his bout, or he is more prone to being knocked out. Or people surviving being hit by a car at speed whilst being heavily drunk. Also, you conserve your energy better the game

6. Have an open mind, and don't just assume the worst with the Dee's - All is not as it seems

7. Go Demons!

Totally agree, the high intensity rev up happens in the rooms just before you run out on the ground.