MFC CONTRACTED PLAYERS LIST

[Elwood 3184 1,299]

Last year one of our posters put up a list of the dates to which our players are contracted as a guide to discussion of which players to retain or delist in the future. Does such a list exist either officially or unofficially?

[The Red Fox 216]

This is based on a list that was floating around at the end of last season. Thanks to 9. David Neitz for helping update it.

I'd expect about six delistings to come out of the Expires 2007 group. Brown, Ward, Warnock, Neville, Holland & Ferguson for mine.

Expires 2007

David Neitz (v)

Russell Robertson

Byron Pickett

Jared Rivers

Brock McLean

Brad Miller

Paul Wheatley

Ryan Ferguson

Nathan Brown

Clint Bizzell

Colin Sylvia

James McDonald

Nathan Carroll

Nathan Jones

Paul Johnson

Ben Holland

Mark Jamar

Clint Bartram

Chris Johnson

Simon Godfrey

Daniel Ward

Matthew Warnock

Micheal Newton

Simon Buckley

Heath Neville

® Jace Bode

® Shane Neaves

® Daniel Hughes

® Daniel Hayes

Expires 2008

Travis Johnstone

Jeff White

Adem Yze

Brad Green

Matthew Whelan

Lynden Dunn

Brent Moloney

Matthew Bate

Daniel Bell

James Frawley

Ricky Petterd

Colin Garland

Isack Weetra

Expires 2009

Aaron Davey

Expires 2010

Cameron Bruce

[9. David Neitz 0]

I would not hesitate to get rid of any/all of the following players

Byron Pickett

Brad Miller

Paul Wheatley

Ryan Ferguson

Nathan Brown

Clint Bizzell

Ben Holland

Mark Jamar

Chris Johnson

Simon Godfrey

Daniel Ward

Matthew Warnock

Heath Neville

® Jace Bode

® Shane Neaves

® Daniel Hughes

® Daniel Hayes

[The Red Fox 216]

Trades notwithstanding, and being mindful that I have not seen a game all season... I'd propose the following with this seasons out of contract players.

Delist

Ryan Ferguson

Nathan Brown

Ben Holland

Daniel Ward

Matthew Warnock

Heath Neville

® Daniel Hughes

® Daniel Hayes

1 Year

David Neitz (v)

Russell Robertson

Byron Pickett

Clint Bizzell

Mark Jamar

Simon Godfrey

® Jace Bode

® Shane Neaves

2 Years

Brad Miller

Paul Wheatley

James McDonald

Nathan Carroll

Paul Johnson

Clint Bartram

Chris Johnson

Simon Buckley

3 Years

Jared Rivers

Brock McLean

Colin Sylvia

Nathan Jones

Michael Newton

[Nasher 33,613]

Pickett, Miller, Ferguson, Brown, Bizzell, Holland, Jamar, Chris Johnson, Godfrey, Ward, Warnock, Neville

Excluding the rookies, these are the candidates for delisting at year's end. Some (Neville) are monties, while others (Godfrey) will almost certainly be offered new contracts. There's 12 names on that list. Given our year I wouldn't be surprised to see 8 gone.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Good effort Wise.

There are more than I thought up for contract renewal at the end of 2007.

FWIW, I dont see how you can give Robbo only one year when you have given Miller and CJ 2 years. If there was not a log jam of NQR players, I would cut Miller this year and give CJ one more year.

I would persevere with Hayes and cut Bode off the rookies list. There is a prospect of more upside with Hayes.

I think there are about 18 players who could come off our list over the next 2 years without even looking at trades.

In reality if we could I would off load 10 players this year and 8 next year. However that might be awkward.

My delists (age in brackets) based on six per year are as follows (some will be retirements):

19. NEVILLE, Heath 2007

24. JAMAR, Mark 2007

26. FERGUSON, Ryan 2007

30. PICKETT, Byron 2007

30. WARD, Daniel 2007

31. BROWN, Nathan 2007

23. WARNOCK, Matthew 2008

24. MILLER, Brad 2008

27. GODFREY, Simon 2008

28. WHELAN, Matthew 2008

30. HOLLAND, Ben 2008

30. YZE, Adem 2008

31. BIZZELL, Clint 2008

This also leaves questions about the longevity of:

Neitz, White, McDonald and Robbo (Can we trade?).

[The Red Fox 216]

FWIW, I dont see how you can give Robbo only one year when you have given Miller and CJ 2 years.

Age was the major consideration there. Robbo's 29 now and has struggled with injury for the past two seasons. But you're right, on form he deserves longer offers than the younger CJ and Miller.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Age was the major consideration there. Robbo's 29 now and has struggled with injury for the past two seasons. But you're right, on form he deserves longer offers than the younger CJ and Miller.

On the face of it I would agree with the Robbo outcome. IMO his value is diminishing to us. However Miller and CJ have no value to diminish.

Nasher, you are right about the dozen players and I would not be averse to cutting 8 players.

[The Red Fox 216]

To assist with the process, below are the '07 games tallies (as of Round 17) of the 12 players in the gun that Nasher mentioned. Their age (as of Jan 1 '08) is in brackets before their name.

[30] Pickett - 4

[24] Miller - 13

[26] Ferguson - 3

[31] Brown - 14

[31] Bizzell - 9

[30] Holland - 7

[24] Jamar - 5

[21] C Johnson - 6

[27] Godfrey - 16

[30] Ward - 15

[23] Warnock - 2

[19] Neville - 0

[Jaded No More 68,876]

Expires 2007

David Neitz (v) - 1 year

Russell Robertson - 2 years

Byron Pickett - GONE

Jared Rivers - 15 years... whatever

Brock McLean - see Rivers

Brad Miller - trade or one year

Paul Wheatley - trade or one year

Ryan Ferguson- GONE

Nathan Brown - Retirement

Clint Bizzell - GONE (one year if we have to <_< )

Colin Sylvia - 3 years

James McDonald - 2 years

Nathan Carroll - 3 years

Nathan Jones - 3 years

Paul Johnson - 2 years

Ben Holland - Retire

Mark Jamar - trade or one year

Clint Bartram - 3 years

Chris Johnson - trade or one year

Simon Godfrey - 1 year

Daniel Ward - GONE

Matthew Warnock - trade or 1 year

Micheal Newton - 3 years

Simon Buckley - 2 years

Heath Neville- GONE

® Jace Bode - Depending on form in the last 5 weeks plus finals, possibly elevate?

® Shane Neaves - Elevate- 2 years

® Daniel Hughes- GONE

® Daniel Hayes- One more year on rookie list

P.S.- I'm almost certain Rivers and McLean extended their contracts last year?

[michael17seddon 0]

I sure hope Rivers is re-signed ASAP I would hate to see another Scott Thompson type of episode

[mick2007 0]

We would have to keep Jamar. We know what happened to Troy Simmons and Darren Jolly, they ended up being quality footballers when given the oppurtunity

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We would have to keep Jamar. We know what happened to Troy Simmons and Darren Jolly, they ended up being quality footballers when given the oppurtunity

Mark Jamar has not been given the opportunity???

[mick2007 0]

Mark Jamar has not been given the opportunity???

Are you saying Simmons and Jolly were as well. Jamar has been playing second ruckman. Hard to get into the game when on and off the bench and to build match fitness. When Simmonds and Jolly were given the top job they never looked back, all it takes is a bit of support and confidence from the coaching & playing group and you gel into the team. I would hate to see Jamar being traded and turning out to be one of the better ruckman in the competition once given a No.1 Ruckman role

[The Red Fox 216]

Are you saying Simmons and Jolly were as well. Jamar has been playing second ruckman. Hard to get into the game when on and off the bench and to build match fitness. When Simmonds and Jolly were given the top job they never looked back, all it takes is a bit of support and confidence from the coaching & playing group and you gel into the team. I would hate to see Jamar being traded and turning out to be one of the better ruckman in the competition once given a No.1 Ruckman role

Even considering Jolly's improved form with the Swans, I think we came out on top with the his trade. We got Dunn with the draft pick, and as far as I'm concerned that's a win for the MFC.

Simmons for Ellis was a mistake, but our need for a key defender forced our hand.

If we could get a top 20 pick for Jamar then I'd take it and run.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Are you saying Simmons and Jolly were as well. Jamar has been playing second ruckman. Hard to get into the game when on and off the bench and to build match fitness. When Simmonds and Jolly were given the top job they never looked back, all it takes is a bit of support and confidence from the coaching & playing group and you gel into the team. I would hate to see Jamar being traded and turning out to be one of the better ruckman in the competition once given a No.1 Ruckman role

Rubbish.

Simmonds went to Freo and struggled. We allowed Simmonds to go on the back that we had Jolly. If Simmonds had stayed what would have happened to Jolly?

Jolly sulked because he was not getting game time in 2004 when White was AA. He wanted out and MFC sort a trade. Should we have kept him another year and let him leave via the PSD?

Jolly has struggled in the No 1 ruckman and is a pedestrian performer in a very good team. They have had to trade their youth for 34 yo 200cm bogan to back him up because of his limitations.

Jamar has had five years in the system and has persistently struggled at AFL level. Its takes more than support and confidence. It takes ability. He is not that good and will struggle in any No 1 ruckman job in the AFL.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Simmons for Ellis was a mistake, but our need for a key defender forced our hand.

If we could get a top 20 pick for Jamar then I'd take it and run.

We traded Simmonds because we had Jolly in reserve and White in the Number 1 spot. Simmonds wanted the number 1 spot. We needed a defender. Ellis's knee injury was unfortunate and it is unproven on the back of it that he would not have fulfilled his side of the bargain.

[monoccular 17,417]

I would not hesitate to get rid of any/all of the following players

Byron Pickett

Brad Miller

Paul Wheatley

Ryan Ferguson

Nathan Brown

Clint Bizzell

Ben Holland

Mark Jamar

Chris Johnson

Simon Godfrey

Daniel Ward

Matthew Warnock

Heath Neville

® Jace Bode

® Shane Neaves

® Daniel Hughes

® Daniel Hayes

Wheatley has been a very valuable player this season - long accurate kicking, run, marking, kick-ins. WTH delist him?

Miller AND Bizzell AND Ferguson - need at least one of them, my choice Bizzell to direct the defence if Rivers remains an injury worry. Need some experience, even if he is not a star.

You also mention Bode - have you ever had a look at him, especially over the last few weeks. A tough hard balanced HBF / BP. reads the play well. WILL be a good player NB if Whelan doesn't get back to his best.

[QueenC 74]

Nasher, you are right about the dozen players and I would not be averse to cutting 8 players.

This may seem a bit naive........

But is there a limit (maybe set by the AFL) to the number of players we can delist at the end of this (or any) season?

Or is the number just set by an individual club based on its own individual needs and requirements?

This would be taken I guess, with the understanding that the club will be able to fill those vacancies in the draft(s) or during trade week (which doesn't seem to be the most reliable way of purely acquiring players, since you have to give something to get something, and we will have to give plenty to get anything at all).

And I still think that this "cull" we do need, and everyone is screaming for, should and probably will take two years to get through.

Losing too many at once to delisting, even those of the more maligned, while a popular suggestion probably isn't completely viable.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.....

Fair comments QC.

The 18 players I have said are likely to retire or should be delisted over the next two years are generally players who I dont think we will get a trade for.

We should look to delist the maximum number with additional players coming from draft picks, additional traded picks (where we can trade an existing player for more than one pick) and where appropriate uplift from the rookies. I am not sure what the ceiling is but the Club needs to consider what the marginal benefit of keeping a NQR or non AFL standard player on the list as opposed to taking players deep in the draft.

[mauriesy 7,269]

The 18 players I have said are likely to retire or should be delisted over the next two years are generally players who I dont think we will get a trade for.

Seems to me we ought to analyse this by position as much as age. A rough breakdown of positions might go something like this (I've ranked them by a mix of "value and age" but that's open to discussion e.g. is Holland ahead of Warnock? etc.). The lower end of each list contains the candidates ... that would be ten players immediately.

Tall backs

Rivers

Carroll

Frawley

Warnock

Holland

Bizzell

Ferguson

Backs/taggers/flankers

Bell

Bartram

Whelan

Wheatley

Petterd

Godfrey

Ward

Brown

(Comment: Would cutting all of Warnock, Holland, Ferguson and Bizzell leave our tall back stocks too thin?)

Mids

McLean

Bruce

Jones

Johnstone

Green

McDonald

Moloney

Buckley

Johnson

Pickett

Neville

® Bode ?

­® Hughes

(Comment: Seems we could cut out of this area without much effect)

Tall forwards

Bate

Neitz

Robertson

Newton

Dunn

Garland

Miller

(Comment: Not much effect here either)

Forwards

Sylvia

Davey

Weetra

Yze

® Hayes ?

(Comment: We seem light on in this area)

Ruck

White

Johnson

Jamar

® Neaves ?

(Comment: We'd better hope Neaves provides something)

Seems to me our glaring need is still in defence, particularly talls.

I think just to cover most of these losses, we'd need to promote Neaves and Bode (one-year contracts?) as well as trades or draft picks. Either that or hold on to some players (Bizzell, Ward or CJ?) for one more year.

The really interesting time will be the end of next year, when not only the remaining lot of dead wood become due, but players like Neitz, White, McDonald, Yze and Whelan look at retiring. I think our list will remain weak or aged, or both, for 2-3 more years, and any talk of finals, let alone premierships, might be quite fanciful.

[drdrake 3,163]

I think we have to assess whether we truely believe we are a premiership chance with our current list of senior players. Even if we had our best 22 fit and playing next year can we win the flag, IMO no we have a list that has the ability to play finals but not win a flag. Do we then accept finishing 5-8th over the next 1-2 years or do we start to build a team that is 3-4 years can have a red hot crack at the flag.

Our core young players look good, Jones, Mclean, Sylvia, Bate, Bartram, Petterd, Newton, Frawley, Buckley add in Rivers and Davey thats 11 players that look to me as good solid players that should be playing at their combined peak in 3-4 years.

I want the MFC to win a flag not finish bottom half of the 8 and make up numbers therefor we need to make some tough calls

Trade

Green

Jamar and Miller(if someone takes them)or delist one

Offer up TJ or Bruce see if we can get a top 10 pick for them

Delist/Retire

Bizz

Brown

Ferguson

Neville

Pickett

Our picks will be at worse 4, 21, 24, 40, 56 at best 2, 18, 20, 36, 52 we should aim to at least get another second round pick or hope someone offers a top 10 fot TJ or Bruce.

[Jaded No More 68,876]

Seems to me our glaring need is still in defence, particularly talls.

Great list.

For this reason alone, I'd look at keeping Miller.

I doubt very much we'll get more than a 4th round pick for him, and considering Holland and Ferguson are both cut, we'll need another tall body as depth. He won't be best 22, or even best 25, but he'll serve his purpose in covering injuries, which he can do both up forward and down back.

I rather him as depth, than another year of Ferguson.

Holland is better than Miller, but we won't get more than a year out of him, therefore Miller over Holland too.

That leaves Miller and Warnock as depth, although I'm still keen to see what we can get out of Warnock at senior level. He hasn't had enough opportunities, and he does have something we badly need, pace.

[jacey 333]

Holland

Bizzell

Ferguson

Ward

Brown

Johnson

Pickett

Neville

­® Hughes

Miller

Jamar

and any talk of finals, let alone premierships, might just be quite fanciful.

I don't see any club culling 10 players. 6 is the most likely, maybe 7.

Therefor only one or two of Holland, Ward, Pickett, Miller, Jamar will go.

Bizz stiff but mfc have played their cards by dropping him for no reason.

Pick up 5 draftees with picks 3, 19, 22, 38, 54, maybe another at 70.

Promote Neaves. Bodes gotta continue his late hot run to get a gig. (unlikely though)

Float TJ, Bruce around to see what we can get. Draft picks 5-12. yes. Anything less. no.

We've got a better list then in 03/04 n we bounced back alright then.

With a game plan that suits OUR TEAM n some luck with no injuries to our key playas, we'll be back.

[mauriesy 7,269]

He hasn't had enough opportunities, and he does have something we badly need, pace.

Just on that ... I have this feeling about Hayes. Next year on the rookie list to really see what he can do. Would add to the "small forward" list.