Satan said:

If he has surgery he is out for 6 weeks. If that's true, they might as well put him in cotton wool for next year.

Exactly right. Hernia's don't come up overnight so it's obviously something he's been struggling with. I expect to see him next year and I hope I do.

The comments about lacking heart, downhill skier, etc are very harsh on him IMO. The biggest game Melbourne have each year (except finals) is the QB game against Collingwood and he's performed on that stage consistently. Also, I'm not sure where the myth of him not performing in finals has come from.

2000 Finals

v. Carlton - 25 possessions / 1 goal

v. NM - 16 / 1.4

v. Essendon - 15 / 0

2002 Finals

v. NM - 31 / 2.2

v. Adelaide - 22 / 1.0

2004 Finals

v. Essendon - 26 / 3.4

2005 Finals

v. Geelong - 13 / 1.0

2006 Finals

v. St Kilda - 16 / 1.0

v. Fremantle - 9 / 1.1

Clearly less influential in the last two years but I would argue that is due to a change in role, and us being smashed in the games against Geelong and Fremantle. And a lack of faith by the coach in the Fremantle game as well.

  Maurie Lithen said:

Wouldn't mind betting he's gone. One less downhill skier on the list.

Absolutely right Maurie.

He has a choice....He quits now on his own terms or the new coach will grant him his testimonial year at TBO.

Kit, I am not sure what your statistics achieve or validate but it certainly isn't your argument.

Yze dominates weak oppositions or where the opposition does not match up on him nor play him close. Against pressuring sides like the Swans where he is held accountable or where the game is contested you wont find Yze playing well. He goes missing.

For years he has relied on his exquisite talent to shortcut team rules and not fulfilling his turn to put his body on the line on the ground.

Since 2003, he has been skiing black runs and his selfish, non team orientated and unaccountable game has been chronic waste of a talent that has been evaporating since that time. AFL is unforgiving and Yze's time is up.

Its been one of MFC's clear weaknesses that Yze could have ever been in the leadership group.

The stats for the Geelong final are a joke - he was captain that day and jogged to the interchange after tossing the coin only to make cameo appearances, kick the ball off the ground numerous times and in wet conditons not get his guernsey dirty!!

I actually thought that Yze was going alright after being dropped earlier this year, that he came back well... he got a bit of the ball and was creative!!

how will people remember ooze??

as the player that could do the freakish, as a rebounding defender with a beautiful left foot, a wingman that loved the space of the G??

or as a selfish player??

i think the former but.......

I know this is a touch off topic in terms of his injury, but do we all remember years ago when Yze almost left to go to Carlton? I can't be sure if it was going to be a trade or walking to the pre-season draft, but I remember thinking at the time that we couldn't possibly lose him. Now, I actually believe that if we had of traded him for a pick or a good young player, we may have been better off.

I feel for Yze, he has been a fantastic player but the game is passing him by. I see no reason in giving him another season for the sake of it when we could use this spot for good, young player who may be playing and developing under a new coach.

  Wiseblood said:

I know this is a touch off topic in terms of his injury, but do we all remember years ago when Yze almost left to go to Carlton? I can't be sure if it was going to be a trade or walking to the pre-season draft, but I remember thinking at the time that we couldn't possibly lose him. Now, I actually believe that if we had of traded him for a pick or a good young player, we may have been better off.

I feel for Yze, he has been a fantastic player but the game is passing him by. I see no reason in giving him another season for the sake of it when we could use this spot for good, young player who may be playing and developing under a new coach.

i agre wise blood. check this out

http://demonland.nozzs.org/forum/index.php...ost&p=83766

and this here

http://demonland.nozzs.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6273

i think the points are well made there...

  Rhino Richards said:

Kit, I am not sure what your statistics achieve or validate but it certainly isn't your argument.

Yze dominates weak oppositions or where the opposition does not match up on him nor play him close. Against pressuring sides like the Swans where he is held accountable or where the game is contested you wont find Yze playing well. He goes missing.

For years he has relied on his exquisite talent to shortcut team rules and not fulfilling his turn to put his body on the line on the ground.

Since 2003, he has been skiing black runs and his selfish, non team orientated and unaccountable game has been chronic waste of a talent that has been evaporating since that time. AFL is unforgiving and Yze's time is up.

Its been one of MFC's clear weaknesses that Yze could have ever been in the leadership group.

To clarify my argument for your benefit, those stats are used because it is generally considered (at least IMO) that finals football is played under the greatest pressure. The Essendon final in 2004 was a game lost by 5 points. Yze was the leading possession winner for MFC and equal highest goalkicker (Robbo kicked 3 straight). In 2005 and 2006 he was used primarily as a FP, HFF and was a contributor. I'm not about to blame him for the Fremantle debacle and I still can't understand how a coach names a player as captain then sends him to the bench.

You referred to failure against the Swans. In the game against Sydney last year at the SCG he was the highest goalkicker for MFC and had 13 possessions again playing mostly FP, HFF. I don't want to have a go at other players but there were a lot of highly rated midfielders that were worse and have been in pressure situations but don't get the same attacks that Yze cops.

You don't agree with me and I get that. I don't disagree that Yze has become significantly less influential in the last year and a half although I still view him as having value in a Peter Riccardi type role as I posted elsewhere.

However, I am not going to agree to a revisionist history of one of Melbourne's best players of the last 10 years that simply is not backed up with any evidence.

  Kit Walker said:

To clarify my argument for your benefit, those stats are used because it is generally considered (at least IMO) that finals football is played under the greatest pressure. The Essendon final in 2004 was a game lost by 5 points. Yze was the leading possession winner for MFC and equal highest goalkicker (Robbo kicked 3 straight). In 2005 and 2006 he was used primarily as a FP, HFF and was a contributor. I'm not about to blame him for the Fremantle debacle and I still can't understand how a coach names a player as captain then sends him to the bench.

You referred to failure against the Swans. In the game against Sydney last year at the SCG he was the highest goalkicker for MFC and had 13 possessions again playing mostly FP, HFF. I don't want to have a go at other players but there were a lot of highly rated midfielders that were worse and have been in pressure situations but don't get the same attacks that Yze cops.

You don't agree with me and I get that. I don't disagree that Yze has become significantly less influential in the last year and a half although I still view him as having value in a Peter Riccardi type role as I posted elsewhere.

However, I am not going to agree to a revisionist history of one of Melbourne's best players of the last 10 years that simply is not backed up with any evidence.

Kit,

A little history and not revisionist. Up to 2002, I thought Yze was a highly skilled and valuable player. During 2003 one of the posters on this site raised questions about Yze's application and shortcuts. I did not accept them at the time but watched Yze closely after that. Do you know what..that poster was right? Its those very characteristics that now outweigh that diminishing talent pool of Yze's.

Yze's form leading up to the 2004 finals was poor. When MFC hit the slump in 2004 after leading the ladder at one point, the hunter became the hunted. MFC lost a number of games and many senior players did not perform. Yze was one of them and he cut corners was unaccountable for his opponents and chased easy statistics. In fact his weeks leading up to the finals that year were ordinary. The 2004 EF between Essendon and Melbourne was despite the result was the most prominent exhibition of unaccountable football by both sides you would see. It was the exact opposite of true September pressure and was exactly the game style that Yze should perform well in. However despite his stats how many of those were contested and how many were effective?

In 2005, his form had been extremely inconsistent but then dipped for a prolonged period prior to 2005 finals. Given Neitz was out with injury the "acting" captain's performance as a player and a leader was a leadership vacuum in motion. Its telling that when MFC went into the 2005 finals with an injury ravaged team, the "acting captain" could only make it on the bench and when he came on he was so inconsequential it did not matter.

Once again in 2006, his form had been flaky and the goals he got in the elimination final against St Kilda were the easy feeds and receives off other player's hard work. FWIW, the Swans win at the SCG was one of the gutiest team wins I have everseen with the all players put their bodies on the line. Well I thought all. Yze's skills as a once exquisite finisher do not hide his reluctance to do the team things.

BTW, Yze is one of a number of senior players currently at this Club that is very good at chasing possession stats without making any impact on the game. Its a contributing fact to the debacle against the Tigers. You need to go behind them on the stat sheet and see how he collects them.

many will not agree with u kit... where as i do..

when we concen yze many of the above posters opinion will change on a number of matters...

goal- an yze goal is a cheap kick from somone else hard work.. resulting of yzes boot

possesion- contested or this does not count as a valid stat for yze.

kick- cheap kicks. who cares if he is one of the best kicks in the MFC CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP

Kick of the ground- no longer a clever way to kick a goal or gain meterage on opponent. it is now a weak effort

instead of picking up the ball and gettin tackled or dispossed.

Receivers (players who dont get the hard ball)- no need for these players on our team especially yze we want 22 players who go under and then dish it off to open space because they are all under the pack.

injuries- yze does not get injured because he shriks contests and does not wrecklessly throw his body into and oncomming brick wall. players who do not get injured are weak.

kit the above is a set of guidlines u should remember before defending yze. as stats dont matter. opinions do..

And kit u should also remember he ran to the bench as captain in a final. andddddddddd he apparently shirked a contest in anohter final a long time ago.... (these 2 incidents deffinatley will tell u he is a dud so dont bother argueing)

btw this is irrelevant

i am also interested in who currently on MFC list has the highest carreer brownlow votes?

  BrownlowBruce said:

i am also interested in who currently on MFC list has the highest carreer brownlow votes?

Have to be Yze.

Although he's had a few years head start on Bruce, Johnstone etc...

  Bring-Back-Powell said:

Have to be Yze.

Although he's had a few years head start on Bruce, Johnstone etc...

mmmm 70 i think yze has not a bad effort

Back on to the topic of Yze's injury, the reason why it may have been explained as a groin injury in a musculoskeletal sense is that a femoral hernia occurs in the groin area, and this might be the type of hernia he has. I'm not sure whether the pain of a groin muscle/tendon strain is similar to the pain from a femoral hernia, but you would certainly get pain in the groin area.

Hopefully he recovers and pulls on the red and blue once more.

  BrownlowBruce said:

mmmm 70 i think yze has not a bad effort

thats one of the worst attempts to validate an opinion with stats i ever ever read on this site. brownlow votes mean nothing except who won the brownlow. and the player that wins the brownlow is the one the umpires see most of. so flashy acts, and cheap possessions count for heaps in brownlow votes. as do standout physical features like blonde hair, one glove, white boots, or rolled up sleeves. because these players stand out they are noticed more. it doesnt make them better players, which is the reason why the full back never wins.

  deanox said:

thats one of the worst attempts to validate an opinion with stats i ever ever read on this site. brownlow votes mean nothing except who won the brownlow. and the player that wins the brownlow is the one the umpires see most of. so flashy acts, and cheap possessions count for heaps in brownlow votes. as do standout physical features like blonde hair, one glove, white boots, or rolled up sleeves. because these players stand out they are noticed more. it doesnt make them better players, which is the reason why the full back never wins.

"btw this is irrelevant

i am also interested in who currently on MFC list has the highest carreer brownlow votes?"

but who better than to go buy than an umpire? ur opinion is just as biest as mine... theirs isnt

  BrownlowBruce said:

"btw this is irrelevant

i am also interested in who currently on MFC list has the highest carreer brownlow votes?"

but who better than to go buy than an umpire? ur opinion is just as biest as mine... theirs isnt

Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett, Shane Woewodin...

Think about it.

  Jaded said:

Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett, Shane Woewodin...

Think about it.

wat am i thinkin about?

im sure they all have great career brownlow votes.

god forbid u judge jaded .... daniel bell gets 3 votes every week....

people will always doubt the umpires decision ... but when u think about it , who better to do them?

  BrownlowBruce said:

wat am i thinkin about?

im sure they all have great career brownlow votes.

god forbid u judge jaded .... daniel bell gets 3 votes every week....

people will always doubt the umpires decision ... but when u think about it , who better to do them?

Went right over your head, as I expected.

  Jaded said:

Went right over your head, as I expected.

Great player , great player , great player...

no brownlow no bronwlow .... Brownlow

ur point is unvalid .....

how many great players have not won brownlows........ think of somethin better

I agree yze can be soft and selfish but his class is undeniable.If melbourne can regain its A game and get its full compliment he could be perfect as a pintch hitter in 2008.Melbourne need to flying for him to be of further assistance

  BrownlowBruce said:

Great player , great player , great player...

no brownlow no bronwlow .... Brownlow

ur point is unvalid .....

how many great players have not won brownlows........ think of somethin better

clearly it went over your head. it should have read:

great player, great player, great hair.

wow was a solid contributor who had a good season with bright blonde hair and picked up votes cause he was seen. im not taking away from wow's brownlow, he won fair and square, and according to the umpires was the best and fairest that year. would he have won with brown hair??? probably not.

and i think you mean, invalid not unvalid.

  deanox said:

im not taking away from wow's brownlow

Hrm

  deanox said:

it should have read: great player, great player, great hair.

  deanox said:

wow was a solid contributor who had a good season with bright blonde hair

  deanox said:

would he have won with brown hair??? probably not.

ok let me clarify. i believe that wowey won fair and square and deserved the award. the umpires award the votes on what they see. but i don't think that makes him the best player. for an umpire, the best and fairest player is different than from a supporter in the stands, it is different from the coaches view, from the media view and from the players view.

i'd be interested to see who won the aflpa player of the year, and the coaches player of the year awards in 2000, but id bet it wasnt wowey.

  BrownlowBruce said:

how many great players have not won brownlows........

I'm pretty sure Bruce hasn't.

But then that's a pretty unvalid point I make.

Carey: Superstar and champion, bouble premiership captain,

Ablett: true suparstar of the comp, a freak of a player, should have won a flag.

Woey: good player who had a exceptional year and deserved his brownlow, was then worked out by opposition and never had a great year again.

you guys realise that this has now turned into another "wowey" thread talking about whether he deserved it or not lol