On 09/04/2025 at 01:10, Ghostwriter said:

Set up the guillotine y’all. The boys have a day off today. I know right! How dare they have a day off when we’re 0-4! I’m so outraged that I’m gonna flood Demonland with my ridiculous whinging and whining.

And by day off I mean there’s no scheduled training of any type. Many of them choose to train in some capacity on a day off, some are involved in footy clinics for kids or visiting elderly and/or ill fans. But still… wah wah wah 😩

Also, they all attended a club function last night, a trivia night with player-sponsors, and get a load of this… they were having fun!!! Preposterous!!! I even saw some of them laughing!!!

was spargo smiling?

  On 09/04/2025 at 03:01, whatwhat say what said:

was spargo smiling?

Is that a trick question? 😁

  On 08/04/2025 at 11:45, bing181 said:

... and Sydney Swans:

No wonder they keep getting hammered in GFs!

  On 08/04/2025 at 21:56, Roost it far said:

running around laughing

So it’s not about whether it’s useful as part of an overall training program, it’s what it looks like. I.e. it’s all performative and they’re not performing “failing football team” to your liking. Perhaps you could drop past training with some hair shirts?

  On 09/04/2025 at 01:03, Superunknown said:

I tend to disagree

The different shape of the balls requires different technique, no?

I make no comment on the benefits of practising with a soccer ball for body movement and activating different muscles and movement patterns. It’s why as a golfer/cyclist/runner/surfer I do exercises specific to those sports but also different stuff for balance and general functional movement

  On 09/04/2025 at 01:03, Superunknown said:

I tend to disagree

The different shape of the balls requires different technique, no?

I make no comment on the benefits of practising with a soccer ball for body movement and activating different muscles and movement patterns. It’s why as a golfer/cyclist/runner/surfer I do exercises specific to those sports but also different stuff for balance and general functional movement

  On 09/04/2025 at 01:03, Superunknown said:

I tend to disagree

The different shape of the balls requires different technique, no?

Therefore if one’s skills with AFL ball are deficient, ought one practice with that ball?

I make no comment on the benefits of practising with a soccer ball for body movement and activating different muscles and movement patterns. It’s why as a golfer/cyclist/runner/surfer I do exercises specific to those sports but also different stuff for balance and general functional movement

Deficient is doing a lot of work there. Even when a club recruits a foreigner who had never seen a Sherrin they'd still do enough skills tests to feel it worth flying this novice out here. I have trouble believing any AFL player's skills start off deficient. Some have better ones than others and body and mind can affect them but no player is deficient. (If any Melbourne player were I suspect the Demonland archives would show angry posters saying so soon after recruitment)

  On 09/04/2025 at 05:36, bing181 said:

So it’s not about whether it’s useful as part of an overall training program, it’s what it looks like. I.e. it’s all performative and they’re not performing “failing football team” to your liking. Perhaps you could drop past training with some hair shirts?

Relax

  On 09/04/2025 at 05:43, Go Ds said:

Deficient is doing a lot of work there. Even when a club recruits a foreigner who had never seen a Sherrin they'd still do enough skills tests to feel it worth flying this novice out here. I have trouble believing any AFL player's skills start off deficient. Some have better ones than others and body and mind can affect them but no player is deficient. (If any Melbourne player were I suspect the Demonland archives would show angry posters saying so soon after recruitment)

I am please that I was so profound you saw fit to quote thrice.

We’re not talking about foreigners. We’re talking about elite players mostly who’ve grown up playing our indigenous brand of football. I also didn’t make mention of anyone’s starting point. Obviously these players are elite and good enough to on a list.

Others have commented our goal kicking is sub optimal (which I agree with - 2023 finals say hi).

I’m not saying they’re not practised, I’m just wondering aloud about the potential benefits of increasing focus even for a short period on a key skill of our game (leaving aside comments about decision making etc)

Bit like practising an aspect of a deficient golf game by finding a high leverage point for dramatic change. Until it improves (which for many it never will but that’s a different story because golf is a Truly evil game)

Edited April 9Apr 9 by Superunknown

  On 09/04/2025 at 01:37, Go Ds said:

BTW is it true the batsman whose average is almost double everyone else's practised hitting a ball - a GOLF BALL - with a STUMP. I dunno, maybe that helped him hit a cricket ball with a cricket bat.

Used to practice on king sized snooker tables so pub pool felt like a kids game. Smashed everyone.

Goal kicking practice should be done with posts half distance apart. WE’LL NEVER LOSE AGAIN.

  On 09/04/2025 at 06:03, BoBo said:

Used to practice on king sized snooker tables so pub pool felt like a kids game. Smashed everyone.

Goal kicking practice should be done with posts half distance apart. WE’LL NEVER LOSE AGAIN.

Junior golf long course and very small greens = +++ short game and putting = 2-4 shots lower on metro courses in pennant

  On 09/04/2025 at 01:20, Ghostwriter said:

Surely you know I’m gonna say he doesn’t have favourites, and that’s because I believe he doesn’t. If he does, he sure hides it well.

I took issue with your comment because I think it’s highly disrespectful to suggest a head coach selects his “favourites” over others in the side. That’s so unproductive and extremely unprofessional. Do you really think, especially at 0-4, Goody would prioritise mate-ship above everything else?

Apologies for this. This was not my intention at all I was just having a bit of fun with it and its been taken the wrong way I think perhaps. I have coached under 16s footy and basketball. Its that old thing where we don't admit it to many if anyone. but we as coaches certainly have a few players that we are close to and bond with that hold a special place I certainly have a few favorites that I connect with and respect (I certainly won't tell others though). Thats all I was asking based off your observations as I know how much you see Goody connect and get behind all the players. Just your guess really but I hear you.

For the record I don't think Goodwin picks players based on who his favourites are, I think its childish to think that way about a professional coach at the highest level (nor would I do this at junior level). I was playing off this false Demonland narrative in my previous post mainly because I liked the meme. I think Goody selects players like Melksham because he has a good relationship with and trusts him, having a longer history of coaching him and giving him some key roles of which he's been very successful at Melks time at the Dees. Thats why he's thought of so highly by Goody. I know he feels the same for many other players at the club.

Sorry Ghosty! Huge fan of your work and all your contributions to the Demon Army and this forum ✌

Edited April 9Apr 9 by Young Blood

Goodwin absolutely has favourites as does every coach. It's not so much about who the coach is mates with but there are players at every club who get a much longer leash than others. Guys like Lachie Hunter will get pushed out of the club for breaking standards while guys like Oliver will get chance after chance no matter how many time standards are broken.

  On 09/04/2025 at 06:10, Superunknown said:

Junior golf long course and very small greens = +++ short game and putting = 2-4 shots lower on metro courses in pennant

It’s settled. All training from now is to be done with one of the following parameters:

smaller/bigger

thinner/thicker

lighter/heavier

longer/shorter

courser/smoother

louder/quieter

wetter/drier

more physics/less physics

hyper realistic/abstract

hyper gravity/microgravity

Getting good at one game means playing the same game, but different.

  On 09/04/2025 at 06:34, Young Blood said:

Apologies for this. This was not my intention at all I was just having a bit of fun with it and its been taken the wrong way I think perhaps. I have coached under 16s footy and basketball. Its that old thing where we don't admit it to many if anyone. but we as coaches certainly have a few players that we are close to and bond with that hold a special place I certainly have a few favorites that I connect with and respect (I certainly won't tell others though). Thats all I was asking based off your observations as I know how much you see Goody connect and get behind all the players. Just your guess really but I hear you.

For the record I don't think Goodwin picks players based on who his favourites are, I think its childish to think that way about a professional coach at the highest level (nor would I do this at junior level). I was playing off this false Demonland narrative in my previous post mainly because I liked the meme. I think Goody selects players like Melksham because he has a good relationship with and trusts him, having a longer history of coaching him and giving him some key roles of which he's been very successful at Melks time at the Dees. Thats why he's thought of so highly by Goody. I know he feels the same for many other players at the club.

Sorry Ghosty! Huge fan of your work and all your contributions to the Demon Army and this forum ✌

All good, YB. I’m sometimes too sensitive and I’m trying to change that but I’m a work in progress. Thank you for explaining. And while I wouldn’t say they’re favourites, there are two players with whom Goody is extremely close, and that’s Clarrie and Koz. Both of these guys regard Goody as kinda like a father.

  On 09/04/2025 at 06:03, BoBo said:

Used to practice on king sized snooker tables so pub pool felt like a kids game. Smashed everyone.

Goal kicking practice should be done with posts half distance apart. WE’LL NEVER LOSE AGAIN.

I hope players practise every possible kick from 5 to 50m and then some up to 75m (and even a bit with balls of different weights and sizes)

  On 09/04/2025 at 08:56, Go Ds said:

I hope players practise every possible kick from 5 to 50m and then some up to 75m (and even a bit with balls of different weights and sizes)

Maybe a water logged ball from 45, not a wet ball but a good old fashioned water laden ball. If you can kick that 45 then you’re good to go

  On 09/04/2025 at 05:52, Superunknown said:

I am please that I was so profound you saw fit to quote thrice.

We’re not talking about foreigners. We’re talking about elite players mostly who’ve grown up playing our indigenous brand of football. I also didn’t make mention of anyone’s starting point. Obviously these players are elite and good enough to on a list.

Others have commented our goal kicking is sub optimal (which I agree with - 2023 finals say hi).

I’m not saying they’re not practised, I’m just wondering aloud about the potential benefits of increasing focus even for a short period on a key skill of our game (leaving aside comments about decision making etc)

Bit like practising an aspect of a deficient golf game by finding a high leverage point for dramatic change. Until it improves (which for many it never will but that’s a different story because golf is a Truly evil game)

Umm, that was a combination of my phone and the new Demonland format mucking up. I don't know enough about training sessions - how many more kicks of a Sherrin would each player have had if Goodwin etc decided instead to do more kicking drills? Is it many? Maybe if the coaches listened to some of us on DL something useful would rub off. I'm just hoping we're talking about professionals genuinely doing their best.

Still I wonder how much practising kicks and handballs players have as second nature improves much anymore than someone walking an hour a day is improving their walking action. IMHO a lot of the big disposal errors are due to complacency, jadedness, pressure or fitness. Those won't be fixed by robotically kicking for an extra half hour. (At least a soccer game lifts spirits, gets players moving and for anyone sick of seeing a Sherrin get misused or going past them to the opposition goal they're getting some respite while still training.)

  On 09/04/2025 at 01:06, Go Ds said:

We don't need no penetration? We don't need no ball control?

Eewww

  On 09/04/2025 at 09:08, Roost it far said:

Maybe a water logged ball from 45, not a wet ball but a good old fashioned water laden ball. If you can kick that 45 then you’re good to go

The brain stores all this information. That doesn't mean people have pinpoint accuracy. But players through trial and error have a good idea what they can do, including how far they can kick, and they can factor in the breeze, tired legs, a waterlogged or slippery ball etc. I think a little experimentation in sport is invaluable. For all we know the next big change - the next headstart for a team - is taking place at an AFL team.

  On 09/04/2025 at 09:36, Spargonicus said:

Eewww

This wasn't meant to be double-entendre-y. We've been alluding to s Pink Floyd song

  On 09/04/2025 at 08:56, Go Ds said:

I hope players practise every possible kick from 5 to 50m and then some up to 75m (and even a bit with balls of different weights and sizes)

The next evolution of AFL will be specialised ultra long kickers. Steph Curries, but for AFL. Players that nail goals consistently from 60 meters.

  On 09/04/2025 at 06:48, BoBo said:

It’s settled. All training from now is to be done with one of the following parameters:

smaller/bigger

thinner/thicker

lighter/heavier

longer/shorter

courser/smoother

louder/quieter

wetter/drier

more physics/less physics

hyper realistic/abstract

hyper gravity/microgravity

Getting good at one game means playing the same game, but different.

Glad we cleared that up! To be clear I don’t really care either way. I’m pragmatic. Whatever gets our team playing - including kicking for goal - betyer

  On 09/04/2025 at 09:21, Go Ds said:

Umm, that was a combination of my phone and the new Demonland format mucking up. I don't know enough about training sessions - how many more kicks of a Sherrin would each player have had if Goodwin etc decided instead to do more kicking drills? Is it many? Maybe if the coaches listened to some of us on DL something useful would rub off. I'm just hoping we're talking about professionals genuinely doing their best.

Still I wonder how much practising kicks and handballs players have as second nature improves much anymore than someone walking an hour a day is improving their walking action. IMHO a lot of the big disposal errors are due to complacency, jadedness, pressure or fitness. Those won't be fixed by robotically kicking for an extra half hour. (At least a soccer game lifts spirits, gets players moving and for anyone sick of seeing a Sherrin get misused or going past them to the opposition goal they're getting some respite while still training.)

Agree with most of that

On the mechanical repetition - I wonder if that’s the case? Realise you reach a point of marginal gains

If I could draw a parallel with golf practice - acknowledging of course the sports are very difference particularly physical pressure upon one’s physical personage and split second decision making - there’s a reason one practices repetitively and mechanically key skills.

I’m talking approach

Anyway like I said I don’t care all that much and I’m not expert

Like you (I think) I just want our team to be the best it can be

If that’s introducing 30 minutes of doing the Macarena per session let’s do it

(Trying to introduce a bit of levity)

  On 09/04/2025 at 09:39, Go Ds said:

This wasn't meant to be double-entendre-y. We've been alluding to s Pink Floyd song

Sure you have, mate. Sure you have.

  On 09/04/2025 at 09:45, BoBo said:

The next evolution of AFL will be specialised ultra long kickers. Steph Curries, but for AFL. Players that nail goals consistently from 60 meters.

Going back to the future, hey? Plenty around for most of my life even early this century like the Roccas. Some things like drop kicks get phased out completely but others might come back. Those successful torps are such a morale and momentum changer. I know coaches feel that they're too hit and miss. But if a player gets some easy marks 65m out because the defenders have pushed back and suddenly two goals are scored for a while after the flooding is lessened , creating possible gaps, and a team is less predictable. I think it's a good idea.

  On 09/04/2025 at 10:01, Superunknown said:

Agree with most of that

On the mechanical repetition - I wonder if that’s the case? Realise you reach a point of marginal gains

If I could draw a parallel with golf practice - acknowledging of course the sports are very difference particularly physical pressure upon one’s physical personage and split second decision making - there’s a reason one practices repetitively and mechanically key skills.

I’m talking approach

Anyway like I said I don’t care all that much and I’m not expert

Like you (I think) I just want our team to be the best it can be

If that’s introducing 30 minutes of doing the Macarena per session let’s do it

(Trying to introduce a bit of levity)

Maybe it would help to play back some of those struggling players' actions in slomo and have some expert see if techniques have worsened. But certainly 'soccer-gate' is a beat-up.

Oh and when the Footy Show had their Grand Final episodes each 'also-ran' team had teammates learning dance routines. There may well be some players back then who bonded over the Macarena.