16 hours ago, Kev said:

Enumerational equality could smooth out the conflicts humans have. The bigger the gap in enumerations and status then the more likelihood of disturbances.

Does a GP expect to be paid as much as a Brain Surgeon? Kozzie has two 5 goal 20+ disposal games this year. His teammates are aware of the gulf between his and their talents.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Pickettup

15 hours ago, Demonstone said:

All this talk about Gini this and Gini that. I don't want to hear about Jack Ginnivan on a Demons forum.

This better?

Most of his team mates would be happy for him , considering that they would NOT be getting a u beaut pay rise in the near distant future.

It does NOT matter if we put all our eggs in the one basket and it does NOT matter if we cannot afford decent key position players.

No wonder we took 57 yrs to win a flag, we will not see another one ever.

What happens if he becomes another Oliver ? Basically he would become un tradable.

2 hours ago, Pickettup said:

Does a GP expect to be paid as much as a Brain Surgeon? Kozzie has two 5 goal 20+ disposal games this year. His teammates are aware of the gulf between his and their talents.

Does our society need more Brain Surgeons or GP's?

Does the game flourish when a few take the majority of the pie?

AFL requires a team to win, a happy team, working for each other.

The greater the stratification the more likelihood of unrest, I reckon.

17 hours ago, Kev said:

Sure, if their heart is not with us, and the thing that holds them loyal is money,

Kev, I don’t know much about trades and contracts etc. but one thing I DO know is that Kozzie’s heart IS with us. Yeah money factors in but he’d be getting very well paid at any club. The MFC is his home, and his teammates and Goody and Wheels are his family.

9 minutes ago, junk said:

Most of his team mates would be happy for him , considering that they would NOT be getting a u beaut pay rise in the near distant future.

It does NOT matter if we put all our eggs in the one basket and it does NOT matter if we cannot afford decent key position players.

No wonder we took 57 yrs to win a flag, we will not see another one ever.

What happens if he becomes another Oliver ? Basically he would become un tradable.

Cmon junk, that's just an appalling effort.

I mean i can see that you are just starting out on your troll journey, or at least I hope that's the case for your sake, but this post is amateur hour stuff.

I'd recommend spending some time on Big Footy. Work on your troll craft and get some troll miles under your belt.

And work on a new posting name as to be honest that's where your problems start.

Junk?

Please- what self respecting troll would choose that as a nom de plume for a MFC forum?

What about something like

• Flower Power

• MF Club

• Spud Dullard's smile

4 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

Kev, I don’t know much about trades and contracts etc. but one thing I DO know is that Kozzie’s heart IS with us. Yeah money factors in but he’d be getting very well paid at any club. The MFC is his home, and his teammates and Goody and Wheels are his family.

Wasn't just talking about Kossie but those who want big money to stay.

He would go if the money wasn't here but there, as anyone would in this day and age. The player's management make distance between the warm fuzzies of their clients, and reality.

I believe big and long contracts are detrimental to the other players and our chance of on field success.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Kev

21 minutes ago, Kev said:

Does our society need more Brain Surgeons or GP's?

Does the game flourish when a few take the majority of the pie?

AFL requires a team to win, a happy team, working for each other.

The greater the stratification the more likelihood of unrest, I reckon.

Kev, what causes unrest in football clubs is losing.

And the goal of every single player is to win a flag.

Players will be behind anything that helps a team win more often and increase the chance of winning a flag - including paying one of your top 3 players a salary commensurate to their impact and ability.

Do you really think the tigers players were frustrated they parachuted Lynch in on a massive salary to (I think I'm right in saying he instantly became the highest paid tiger, a team that had just won a flag) in order to increase their chances of winnning another flag

The club has done brilliantly to land this deal. It's huge for the club and our chances of being a force moving forward.

And i would be completely shocked if there was anything but support within the playing group for the terms of koz's contract.

28 minutes ago, Kev said:

Wasn't just talking about Kossie but those who want big money to stay.

He would go if the money wasn't here but there, as anyone would in this day and age. The player's management make distance between the warm fuzzies of their clients, and reality.

I believe big and long contracts are detrimental to the other players and our chance of on field success.

All good. I was talking only of Kozzie.

Just now, binman said:

Kev, what causes unrest in football clubs is losing.

And i would be completely shocked if there was anything but support within the playing group for the terms of koz's contract.

I think the nature of us as humans, create an anxiety when the stratification is large.

Look what happened to the Tigers when the chance of winning more medals was lost, and the salary was better elsewhere, no loyalty, many jumped.

I would rather be competitive, with a chance of finals, than sitting down the bottom. That requires stability of players. If the players aren't rewarded they move.

Good chance we may lose the middle, if as you say, we don't win. This year is shot, even with our big names. Some clubs will be after our up and coming players. Much will have to change if we are to stay a force. I believe we have missed our windows and large salaries and contracts only impact adversely.

58 minutes ago, Kev said:

Does our society need more Brain Surgeons or GP's?

Does the game flourish when a few take the majority of the pie?

AFL requires a team to win, a happy team, working for each other.

The greater the stratification the more likelihood of unrest, I reckon.

After reading this thread, I’d say Brain Surgeons.

2 minutes ago, Kev said:

I think the nature of us as humans, create an anxiety when the stratification is large.

Look what happened to the Tigers when the chance of winning more medals was lost, and the salary was better elsewhere, no loyalty, many jumped.

I would rather be competitive, with a chance of finals, than sitting down the bottom. That requires stability of players. If the players aren't rewarded they move.

Good chance we may lose the middle, if as you say, we don't win. This year is shot, even with our big names. Some clubs will be after our up and coming players. Much will have to change if we are to stay a force. I believe we have missed our windows and large salaries and contracts only impact adversely.

They didn't jump kev. More likely they were pushed.

The tigers knew they had a one in a generation opportunity to go to the draft with an unprecedented number of high end draft picks.

And they took that opportunity.

They won their 3 flags. They weren't going to win another with the list they had.

And in trading our baker, bolton and rioli they made out like bandits and are setting themselves for the next tilt at a flag.

On your point about other clubs comimg after our 'up and coming players', the following such players have all extended their contracts in the last 12 months (meaning the koz contract won't impact our efforts to balance our cap for several years - ie these players are all locked in):

• Turner

• JVR

• Windsor

• Howes

• Kolt

• McVee

• Jefferson

That doesn't leave many up and coming players for other teams to target.

15 minutes ago, binman said:

They didn't jump kev. More likely they were pushed.

The tigers knew they had a one in a generation opportunity to go to the draft with an unprecedented number of high end draft picks.

And they took that opportunity.

They won their 3 flags. They weren't going to win another with the list they had.

And in trading our baker, bolton and rioli they made out like bandits and are setting themselves for the next tilt at a flag.

On your point about other clubs comimg after our 'up and coming players', the following such players have all extended their contracts in the last 12 months (meaning the koz contract won't impact our efforts to balance our cap for several years - ie these players are all locked in):

• Turner

• JVR

• Windsor

• Howes

• Kolt

• McVee

• Jefferson

That doesn't leave many up and coming players for other teams to target.

Has McVee signed an extension?

8 minutes ago, ANG13 said:

Has McVee signed an extension?

I thought so, but could be wrong.

12 minutes ago, binman said:

On your point about other clubs comimg after our 'up and coming players', the following such players have all extended their contracts in the last 12 months (meaning the koz contract won't impact our efforts to balance our cap for several years - ie these players are all locked in):

• Turner

• JVR

• Windsor

• Howes

• Kolt

• McVee

• Jefferson

That doesn't leave many up and coming players for other teams to target.

The contracts have become meaningless. The small contracts can be bought and if we don't match them, chance they will go.

The big contracts are problematic, others cannot afford to buy them, Tracc as an example, does he really want to play for us especially if we continue in this unsuccessful mode. The big contracts are usually back end loaded. As they age, and become good role players or retire injured, we are stuck with big cap fillers. I would rather us be like Geelong than Richmond, and hold the core together, with aging stars sacrificing some salary at the next contract negotiation, for a chance to take the lollies. I love the loyalty. The whole reset of the team doesn't seem to work well.

Calling out for the lobotomiser's.

Wish I was a group think.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Kev

10 minutes ago, ANG13 said:

Has McVee signed an extension?

Not yet but apparently I’m going to prompt him to do so. @Jaded No More says that’s my next project, that is, after I make sure Kozzie and Ardu get moving on some siblings for Bellanie. 😂

I hope we're working on extensions for Lindsay and Langford to take them through to 2028. They've shown more than enough to suggest they'll be stars and we don't want them all coming out of contract in 2027.

Kozzie is our match winner and spark to turn the Demons on!

We could not afford to let him go!

Paid to much, maybe but imagine us without him!

Go Demons!

14 minutes ago, Kev said:

The contracts have become meaningless. The small contracts can be bought and if we don't match them, chance they will go.

The big contracts are problematic, others cannot afford to buy them, Tracc as an example, does he really want to play for us especially if we continue in this unsuccessful mode. The big contracts are usually back end loaded. As they age, and become good role players or retire injured, we are stuck with big cap fillers. I would rather us be like Geelong than Richmond, and hold the core together, with aging stars sacrificing some salary at the next contract negotiation, for a chance to take the lollies. I love the loyalty. The whole reset of the team doesn't seem to work well.

Calling out for the lobotomiser's.

Wish I was a group think.

You are contradicting yourself kev.

If contracts are meaningless then why do yiy have a problem with the length of Kozzie's contract.

Sure it's great to not blindly buy into the consensus view.

A handful of posters, me included, pushed back on the seeming consensus on DL last October and November that our culture was terrible, we were a rabble, that it was a fait accompli we would lose trac, Oliver and after the 2025 season koz too.

The minority view proved to be the correct one.

But often the consensus view is in fact the correct you one, and imo it is in this case - the koz deal is a total winner for the MFC.

And ironically the Tracc example provides one reason how long contracts can benefit a club by giving us the goal whip hand in any negotiations.

Some might argue clarry's situation provides a counter argument because it makes harder for us to trade him. But I don't give credence to that argue because it presupposes we want to trade him.

Why on earth would we want to trade him, particularly if we can't get top end draft picks in return?

By any measure he has been one of our best players this season and whilst still a ways of his best he iis clearly getting there.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by binman

24 minutes ago, binman said:

You are contradicting yourself kev.

If contracts are meaningless then why do yiy have a problem with the length of Kozzie's contract.

The big contracts cannot be bought, unless the seller pays some of the cap.

2 hours ago, binman said:

I mean i can see that you are just starting out on your troll journey, or at least I hope that's the case for your sake, but this post is amateur hour stuff.

I'd recommend spending some time on Big Footy. Work on your troll craft and get some troll miles under your belt.

And work on a new posting name as to be honest that's where your problems start.

Junk?

Please- what self respecting troll would choose that as a nom de plume for a MFC forum?

What about something like

• Flower Power

• MF Club

• Spud Dullard's smile

Ouch.

48 minutes ago, Kev said:

The big contracts cannot be bought, unless the seller pays some of the cap.

So that a good thing in Kozz's case then -another club cant turn his head with a big offer.

Certainly was in traccs scenario - the $ we are paying tracc couldn't be matched by other clubs and, as I argued at the time, that made it extremely unlikely that a trade would/could be done - even if tracc really wanted out

And now we have tracc playing great footy, in a great headspace and showing great energy and leadership- so much so that fir the first time in his career people are talking about him being our next captain.

Moral of the story- long contracts of gun players are a net positive for club and player.

Speaking of Spud' s era...

This is a wonderful photo of two ex vfl players listening to the 1944 gf in Dutch New Guinea as it was then called.

3 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

Not yet but apparently I’m going to prompt him to do so. @Jaded No More says that’s my next project, that is, after I make sure Kozzie and Ardu get moving on some siblings for Bellanie. 😂

Got your sights set on a gig as godmother methinks 😃

1 hour ago, binman said:

So that a good thing in Kozz's case then -another club cant turn his head with a big offer.

Certainly was in traccs scenario - the $ we are paying tracc couldn't be matched by other clubs and, as I argued at the time, that made it extremely unlikely that a trade would/could be done - even if tracc really wanted out

And now we have tracc playing great footy, in a great headspace and showing great energy and leadership- so much so that fir the first time in his career people are talking about him being our next captain.

Moral of the story- long contracts of gun players are a net positive for club and player.

agree with most of this, except that a lot of people were talking about trac as a likely next skipper for the last several years before the issues at the end of last season

it's always been him or lever as the likely candidate