We need a cleanout

[Cactus 2]

CC) No im not. Im suggesting we trade some players and recruit some new players to learn alongside players like Brock who will be old enough to have these players learning from brock.

2 x Ruckman - White gone we need 2 as Jamar and Johnson are not good

1 x Full forward - Neitz out in 2 years

1 x Full back - Carroll not the answer...depth he is

1 x CHB - Rivers is superbe but i feel hes half back pocket. we need another for depth

1 x Back pocket - Wheels gone we need another small backman

1 x Half Back Pocket - or back pocket as Bell is not our future.

8 x Midfielders - Depth and loss of McDonnald and trading Bruce, TJ (we can get better potentual for draft picks for loosing them)

1 x Coach - Do i need to explain

how can you suggest that we should try to lose...?? I dont want to have anything to do with a team that is trying to lose! and nobody else should either!! I definately would not renew my membership if i knew that were the case and i think there would be thousands of other people in the same boat.

The club would be lucky to survive if we went 2 seasons finishing on the bottom of the ladder when we are trying let alone on purpose!!!

but it is a stupid arguement to have because there is NO way that an elite team would go out and try to lose.

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

I too would be disappointed with "going for draft picks". The young players are very exciting for our future & injuries to key players may be the fast tracking that some of these young kids will be getting. I'll certainly support it rather than continue to play players that are out of form OR show no interest.

I reckon Yze will be better for it now that he has no more baggage to carry. He'll have a blinder next week.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

I reckon we're too timid about trying young players. Would WE have dared to play Nathan Krakouer (64kg), the way Port did v. North? He came out and won it for them.

I think we would have said...."give him a year to put on some weight in the Sandy ressies!"

[Choko 493]

I reckon we're too timid about trying young players. Would WE have dared to play Nathan Krakouer (64kg), the way Port did v. North? He came out and won it for them.

I think we would have said...."give him a year to put on some weight in the Sandy ressies!"

Davey

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

Davey was 21 when we rookied him. Not what I call a super- courageous move to play him after good performances in the pre-season cup.

[Rogue 585]

I would trade Green + Bruce + Johnstone + Miller as noone would pick up Fergs, Wheatley, Bell, Wheels, Brown, Godfrey etc

You're unlikely to get value for Miller.

[jacey 333]

We need a cleanout

How quickly the wheel has turned. It was only 2 weeks ago ppl were saying this was the best list we've seen in a while n now all suddenly we need a total clean out.

I do think we have decent list but they need 2 b steered in the right direction. We aren't the Weagles n we aren't the Swannies so why the hell r we copying their gameplan. We have totally different midfielders (Mclean, McDonald, Jones) to Weagles (Judd, Kerr, Embbley, Braun etc) so its stupid to follow them. Back to basic footy is needed 4 the demons.

I have said we needed 2 trade white for 2-3 years now but his value is all but gone now so it might b wise to throw out one of Bruce, Green or Johnstone to c who bites n what they have 2 offer.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

I would trade Green + Bruce + Johnstone + Miller as noone would pick up Fergs, Wheatley, Bell, Wheels, Brown, Godfrey etc

How can anyone possible take that seriously....

like honestly,

Green bruce johnstone and miller lol ..... that would be suicide.....

imagine our team ..... would be full of 19 year olds..... and senior players lke wheatley godfrey holland ward .... must i go on?

[Gouga 512]

I don't think we need a cleanout. We need a coach that can get the best out of our current line up.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I don't think we need a cleanout. We need a coach that can get the best out of our current line up.

A change of coach will bring about a clean out and so it should.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

For all those people looking for a solution in the trade market...get real.

Have a look at what gets traded and why clubs are participating?

If we dont think certain players are up to why the hell would other Clubs fall on their swords and sacrifice their youth picks to get our damaged goods?

[occo 2]

How can anyone possible take that seriously....

like honestly,

Green bruce johnstone and miller lol ..... that would be suicide.....

imagine our team ..... would be full of 19 year olds..... and senior players lke wheatley godfrey holland ward .... must i go on?

I dont think it would be suicide at all. These are good players but for the picks that we could get for them i think we could get better players. And yes i am suggesting we play senior players like thoes along with a majority of young players. It will prove good in 3 years when we have a good chance at a premiership for a good 10 years i think. I have said that financially its an issue but thats what i believe we must do to see us there on the g the last day in Sep

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I don't think we need a cleanout. We need a coach that can get the best out of our current line up.

Agreed.

A change of coach will bring about a clean out and so it should.

Agreed.

[beelzebub 22,369]

I reckon we're too timid about trying young players. Would WE have dared to play Nathan Krakouer (64kg), the way Port did v. North? He came out and won it for them.

I think we would have said...."give him a year to put on some weight in the Sandy ressies!"

I like the cut of your jib !!

exactly.. now the real answer must lay somewhere between tempering unbridled enthusiam for a youngen with the preparedness to try some of thses guys when they're warming up , and not necessarily a real red hot certainty. How many times has Sheeds pulled some kid out of the bag ?.. we are a tad too conservative in approach as a club, giving some players far too much lattitude on form ( Danners calls it unswerving belief...to others its just foolhardiness ) whilst at the same time requiring the young tearaways to jump through hoops doing somersaults whislt ol' yella snoozes in the pocket !!

Melbourne must be the most frustrating club to be drafted to !!

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

Just looking at the last 2 years, we took too long to give Bate a go, and the same with Jones, when it was clear they were going to be proper League footballers. Armsstrong was never entrusted with responsibility.He wasn't good enough for us, but fits in well at WCE.

Scottie Thompson played nearly 50 games before he played 100 minutes in a game , and I know that's part of the reason we lost him(apart from his brother being sick.)

It's the same with our tactics.....we're too scared to try anything new ourselves,we just try to hook on when we see a successful tactic being used. By then counter measures are already being used by the pro-active clubs(ge Sydney and Adelaide)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1. Bate was taken as a junior age footballer in the draft and was expected to take longer than normal to develop and mature as an AFL footballer. He was introduced at the right time. Unfortunately he is suffering from second year blues. I am waiting for the wit to tell me that we introduced him to early.

2. Scott Thompson was frequently injured with foot and leg injuries. In 2004 when he was fully fit (at least for the first 16 rounds) he was our No 1 centreman. Its a load of tish he was not given opportunity.

3.Armstrong is the 22nd player in the Eagles outfit. After Matera broken down and Sampi went AWOL, Armas was third in line. He is just a fringe player in a very good team as opposed to a fringe player in a lesser team.

[Gouga 512]

3.Armstrong is the 22nd player in the Eagles outfit. After Matera broken down and Sampi went AWOL, Armas was third in line. He is just a fringe player in a very good team as opposed to a fringe player in a lesser team.

Steve Bradbury still has his gold medal and Arma will always have his premiership medal.

By the way, he has established himself as a regular in the best team in the competition and I for one would love the oppurtunity to select him this week for the red and blue.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Its a celebration of circumstance rather than achievement.

From our list I would have had Yze, Davey ahead of Armas. He is neither he nor there. He's fringe.

[Jaded No More 59,158]

From our list I would have had Yze, Davey ahead of Armas. He is neither he nor there. He's fringe.

Given relative age and time left in the game, as well as attitude and application, I'd have Arma (and I'm not even a fan).

Davey is another story altogether, besides, he's a midfielder apperantly

[steve_f 40]

We need to clean out the third to eighth 3rd tall defenders. The benefit of having playing a different player who is in slightly better form at any particular time, does not justify the space on the list and under TPP.

I.e. Daniel Bell, Clint Bizzell, Nathan Carroll, Ryan Ferguson, Chris A. Johnson, Jared Rivers, Matthew Warnock, Paul Wheatley (not in order)

There are six spots to start with.

Simon Godfrey should not be required if Sylvia and Moloney play most of this year.

Nathan Brown is optional with Bate being able to cover.

Paul Johnson needs to show something remarkable this year but is unlikely.

Pickett should be retained but given a kick-board and sent to the Aquatic centre to do laps until he gets down to an arguable playing weight. To a lesser extent, Robbo should accompany him to loose 3 kgs. And I say that as an illegitimate porker myself.

The Board should also have a good look at themselves. We are being surprised each year with new ways to fail. Last year, it was the gut on Motlop and Pickett. This year it is run and carry; a point which concerned those who saw the pre-season; refer to the stasr date on the run and carry threads. Senior players play irresponsibility but I can't kid you that that is still a surprise.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Steve f,

The players you focus on are periphery of our playing list. Few, if any are tradeable and FWIW I actually thought it was thsoe fringe players that stood up and made us half respectable against the Hawks.

Get rid of players like PJ, Ferguson Warnock! Who cares? They are not regular senior players on perfomance and therefore not responsible They are there for list depth pending injury to more preferred and skilled players.

And remember We can only realistic get rid of 5 to six players each year. As a consequence you can only draft 5 to 6 players. A clean out takes a couple of seasons depending upon the roll out of contract expiries. Are the six up backman you want to slice out of contract? And if so what do you replace them with 18 yo saplings or 25 yo rejects from other Clubs

What is critical is what is happening to your critical players who are vital to your success and are the backbone of your side...

I think these 10 players are critical to our success over the season:

Neitz.......Injured gone for six weeks

McLean....Injured gone for six weeks

Pickett........Injured, Overweight

White....Deteriorating form

Rivers...Injured...Dodgy hamstring

TJ.....Not interested.Maybe be injured but his attitude stinks.

Bruce...Good second week but disposal a problem

Whelan- Injured first week. Poor form the second week

Bate- A developing midfielder sadly out of touch.

Bartram- Injured

Add to that Robbo injured, Yze gone, Davey disappeared.....

That's where your focus should be. They are the players that win and lose you games. Not the fringe players

FWIW, Pickett's contract is expiring this year. From what I have seen of a 32yo overweight player that cant get on the track it is his last. At least Godders and Brown are getting on the track and contributing.

Before you have a ping at the Board do you actually understand their strategy and the decisions they have put in place?

It appears not. But dont let that stop yo citing Motlop's gut being a reason for failing. When was he critical last year? Pickett for his lack of fitness last year was actually important to us in 2006. But you are complaining about the Board and Pickett's gut and you want to give him another year? Thanks

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

Do you have any association or connection with the MFC board?

[johnfidge 0]

My idea is an issue for financial reasons i appreciate that...but if we aim for the finals this and next year and dont scrape in...we are at a disadvantage losing draft picks. Our best chance is in 2 years but i dont see us doing it so lets bottom out for 3 years. By that time, 2010 we will be a presence whereas if we go for finals in 07 and 08 we will most likely loose our first game, disadvantaged by picks and 2 years longer than 2010. A cleanout must happen at some point so lets bring sucsess forward in time and not wait for a cleanout in 2 years.

I do appreciate that we will struggle financially but perhaps theres some way to lighten the load on that department...i dunno really.

The shopping list:

2 x Ruckman

1 x Full forward

1 x Full back

1 x CHB

1 x Back pocket

1 x Half Back Pocket

8 x Midfielders

1 x Coach

I would trade Green + Bruce + Johnstone + Miller as noone would pick up Fergs, Wheatley, Bell, Wheels, Brown, Godfrey etc

I know 3 years is a lot but we must do it at some point and short term pain = long term gain i believe

key positions have always been a problem, especially down back. But thier is real quality in those 8 midfielders, often its not the individuals but the combination of players. throw judd, and Borgoyne in with any 6 of our boys and away we go! just an example .

[Demon15 0]

Do you have any association or connection with the MFC board?

RR probably doesnt', but that doesn't stop him being 100% correct.

The first test for the Board has been passed with flying colours, providing the Demons with some self-respect off the ground, and a stable platfrom for the Football Dept.

Second test comes at the end of THIS season. Decide what's acceptable and what isn't regading On-field performance.

I've met my alter ego, the President. If he doesn't have a strong view and get it done, then I'll change my Moniker.

Fair dinkum - do you want Beverly O'Connor out there playing CHF.

Hang on a minute......

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

"1. Bate was taken as a junior age footballer in the draft and was expected to take longer than normal to develop "

Exactly my point. We were fixed in our belief that , because he was young,he'd take ages to be ready. If he'd been given a go in '05(which would have been a gutsy move), he wouldn't be having 2nd yr blues now! But don't worry, I've a feeling it'll be a short-lived case of the blues!

We were fixed in our belief that Scottie Thomson could only play 50min,and we were fixed in our belief that Arma wasn't good enough.

My point is that we don't show courage in our selection,or in allocation of game-time,resulting in a lack of faith in our youngsters. The same applies to our game tactics.

Do YOU think ,if he was on our list,we'd have given Krakouer a go as early as they did?