Jump to content
  • Podcast:      

Sign in to follow this  
TGR

Speed algorhythm - Uncontested Possession

Recommended Posts

You could have the fastest group ever assembled in AFL history and if they aren't match conditioned and underdone they will get smashed on the transition by a better conditioned unit.  Like we were.  Its about repeat efforts.

Lack of speed isn't the primary issue here.

As others have spoken to, a lack of conditioning leads to a whole raft of problems.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  On 3/25/2019 at 12:24 AM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

spargo knows how to use the footy when he finds it, and actually has some pace - he just doesn't lay a tackle as he's a 19 year old, still developing strength

i personally don't think you can play frost and hunt in the same side; yes, they both have line-breaking speed, but neither can hit a target by foot

couldn't disagree with you more re lewis - the loss of him on the eve of round 1 was a massive blow as he controls our backline and is a must to have someone with a semblance of understanding of where to position themselves defensively, cos hibberd as our other backline leader can't / doesn't do it, and jetta leads by example rather than instruction, and to compare him to watts is laughable

brayshaw's skills are terrible, but he's brilliant at finding the footy - he's nowhere near mitchell's class at this stage

it's one game in, there's nothing to panic about, but there are obvious concerns at this stage

we got SMASHED for contested ball against meth coke, in the jlt match-ups, and against the pear

if you don't win the ball, you always look slow

 

  On 3/25/2019 at 7:51 AM, JV7 said:

I’m sure people will tell me to shut up because I keep banging on about the same thing every time our lack of leg speed is bought up but as long as people keep bringing it up I will put my 2 cents in.

I believe speed in AFL is completely overrated, the fastest way you can play football is by quick ball movement. Clean disposal by foot & quick chains of handballs. Our lack of speed is bought up every single time we have a bad loss or loss for that matter, we have been beaten in those games because we have not been aloud to play our style of football. Look at the total possession count from the weekend, we couldn’t get the footy off Port. I’d have a guess if you look at most of our “bad” losses over the past 2 years it would be we have been well beaten in the possession count, we just couldn’t get the ball of Port & control the game in any way.

Another point on the speed factor, take frost or hunt for example. They take off a million miles an hour, burst away, kick long  & turn it over, that footy is sling shot back inside our defence 50 by FOOT, not legs, I repeat GOOD foot skills not speed before Frost or Hunt could even turn around to defend. 

Agree we are not the fastest side in the comp, but we are playing football not racing a 100m sprint. Good ball use particularly by foot is what makes sides fast. 

 

  On 3/25/2019 at 8:10 AM, stevethemanjordan said:

@JV7

Nail on head. 

We shoot ourselves in the foot by aimlessly kicking forward too often only to find ourselves wasting energy on chasing tail back the other way. 

It is completely a ball movement, clean possession and disposal thing. Nothing else. 

We turned it around last season when we started hitting targets moving forward instead of Bombing aimlessly 

 

Yes I agree with both of these points      hate to see it bombed long or to a contest where we don't have the numbers  resulting in an easy mark to a defender or an easy out for the opposition, pissses me off   Such a waste of effort not to give it to one of ours.    But its easy to talk from my side of the TV.

 

Go Dees

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

a lack of conditioning leads to a whole raft of problems.

or simply a mismatch of conditioning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6/6/6 has hurt no other club like us.  Ironic that satin's number will hurt the Demons the most. You now need speed, line-breaking ability and a thirst for one-on-one footy.

We were an inside team that lacked speed on the outside and line-breaking ability to begin with.  Then we recruited Lewis, who played +1, who lead our zone defence.  According to Bartel, Brisbane's defence has been ingrained with one-on-one learning since he stepped foot in the place.

Geelong got taught a lesson by us in September 2018.  But they transformed, and injected speed into their line-up.  We didn't even review the PF, because that wasn't us.  Maybe in retropect, it was us in the most important game of the year.  Clarkson has got rid of slow old legs in the past 3 years, and brought in running power amongst other things.  We were a bit hamstrung.  We sold the farm with Lever, and missed out on injecting the list with speed/talent in the superdraft.

We can't re-write history, and don't deserve to, but there are some things that can and must be done pronto.

Goodwin must put TMac (who I rate as a forward) back to provide some assurance down back.  He will take marks in D50 and hopefully work well with his brother.  Frost and Hibberd particularly, must be freed toward the wings.  Jones must re-invent himself down back or retire this year.  Lewis should retire in the upcoming Hawks game and get chaired off as a courageous skillful player 3 years past his prime.

Goodwin must think about Preust, especially if Weed's defensive efforts remain average.

Goodwin must persist with Lockhart and Hunt.

 

Think I might start looking at June snow-deals and September holidays.  Will the small SCG favour our penchant for inside footy?  Maybe, but Essendon and Port showed the footy world to be daring with ball-in-hand and take us on with speed..and dare us to chase and tackle.

 

 

 

pTGR

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smashed again in relation to uncontested possession in a decent win.

This is not structural surely....gotta be personnel.  Renovation rather than rebuild inevitable IMO.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TGR said:

Smashed again in relation to uncontested possession in a decent win.

This is not structural surely....gotta be personnel.  Renovation rather than rebuild inevitable IMO.

 

 

 

Sorry but don’t agree and think it’s structural. If we apply intense pressure in the forward 50 then we force turnovers and the opposition uncontested numbers are down.  Second half was good.  First half was like first 3 games. Forward 6 need more time to gel defensively.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just heard Bevo describe Freo as having 'speed and grunt'.

Nail on head.

Our speed (Hunt, Spargo, Garlett) has no grunt.

Our grunt (Petracca) has no speed.  We pass on grunt, but fail with speed.

 

Richmond, I'd say is full of speed and grunt.

 

Algorithm imbalance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grunt matters in big games.

When it comes to the big games it's player on player. If both players are equally skilled and equally quick and equally fit, as is mostly the case in finals, the stronger player will win because whenever the two players come together at the contest the stronger player will buffet the weaker out of the way and win position and possession.

Take StKilda.

The Saints are currently running hard and long. But they don't have a raft of grunt players. If we were well conditioned, rather than our current fitness shambles, and we were equally as fit as the Saints, I would back us to win. We have the grunt, but we are just all over the shop with our fitness and conditioning.

Currently I'd back, say, Geelong and Collingwood in any big game against the Saints.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

Grunt matters in big games.

When it comes to the big games it's player on player. If both players are equally skilled and equally quick and equally fit, as is mostly the case in finals, the stronger player will win because whenever the two players come together at the contest the stronger player will buffet the weaker out of the way and win position and possession.

Take StKilda.

The Saints are currently running hard and long. But they don't have a raft of grunt players. If we were well conditioned, rather than our current fitness shambles, and we were equally as fit as the Saints, I would back us to win. We have the grunt, but we are just all over the shop with our fitness and conditioning.

Currently I'd back, say, Geelong and Collingwood in any big game against the Saints.

Again....this all points to falling behind the eight ball vs other clubs, even stock ordinary ones like the Saints.

Pert needs to instigate a full review of the FD at all levels including a possible assistant to help out Goody, sports science / high performance standards, the present state of the list  and our trade/draft performance ASAP!!

Bottom of the ladder from a Prelim appearance 6 months earlier is unacceptable and inexcusable and smells of amaturish/eyes off the ball standards creeping in post the Roos era.

Edited by Rusty Nails

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tony Tea said:

Grunt matters in big games.

When it comes to the big games it's player on player. If both players are equally skilled and equally quick and equally fit, as is mostly the case in finals, the stronger player will win because whenever the two players come together at the contest the stronger player will buffet the weaker out of the way and win position and possession.

Take StKilda.

The Saints are currently running hard and long. But they don't have a raft of grunt players. If we were well conditioned, rather than our current fitness shambles, and we were equally as fit as the Saints, I would back us to win. We have the grunt, but we are just all over the shop with our fitness and conditioning.

Currently I'd back, say, Geelong and Collingwood in any big game against the Saints.

Billy Slater takes tackling drills for 1-2 hours with the saints.  He is pedantic with his instruction apparently.

Kent also stated, according to a colleague, that the outside drills the Saints do are chalk and cheese to what he was used to here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 3/24/2019 at 5:17 PM, TGR said:

Much debate in the past 24 hours is about whether we really lack outside speed.  

We can all look at this a bit simply and directly correlate this with uncontested possession numbers.  But what are the other related variables and factors?  We lack speed, but does that mean we wouldn't be assisted by a Sam Mitchell (circa 2012), Tim Kelly or Dustin Martin?  These players aren't quick, but would they help our uncontested possession crisis?  I think they would, so it can't be all about leg speed.

 

Despite the recency of the 6/6/6, the league has been clear on its want to reduce congestion.  Congestion was our friend, and favoured teams that were hard inside with quick hands in congestion.  Some of our inside work last year reminded me of Sydney in 2005/6 as well as the Bulldogs in 2016.  Collingwood's quick hands in 2018 was elite too.

 

So as the game decongests (quicker ball-ups, decisions over ball-up, 6/6/6, kick-out play-on etc...), uncontested possession is about to be gold.  This ugly duckling of 2005-2018 (bar Clarkson/Hawthorn) is about to become the go-to stat of most games hereon.

Leg-speed counts quite a bit toward uncontested possession; but what else.  Surely there are teams without elite leg-speed that are OK with uncontested possession.  So what are the additional factors?  What makes the sum of the parts more whole?

Foot skills have got to be a factor.  Clarkson's Hawthorn had foot skills of the highest percentile.  They were able to start a chain from D50, and not rely on clearance-dominance and contested possession.  As stated, they were the exception when contested was king.

Uncontested possession requires a chain to start and continue obviously.  So what else, other than leg-speed and foot skills will enable a chain to start and continue.

The ability to break a tackle must be relevant.  As soon as this happens, a +1 instantly occurs, and overlap can happen.  Dustin Martin in 17/18 has been the best, and regularly gave Richmond a +1 and overlap chain.  Despite being dragged down yesterday, I have faith in Petracca being elite at breaking a tackle.  I think Brayshaw's ability to evade a tackler is grossly underrated as well.  Oliver's quick hands are elite in evading a tackle, but this delegates responsibility to the player who has just received the pill in close, and doesn't necessarily augment a chain starting and spreading to the outside.

The other 'non-speed' component is lateral speed or change-of-direction speed.  Sam Mitchell was like treacle in a straight-line, but somehow could zig-and-zag quicker than most.  Tim Kelly has a bit of Sam Mitchell and Brayshaw about him.  Not electric, but slices through.

Fox Footy (Lyon with Roos agreeing) also mentioned the A2 and A3 having faith in the A1 to get the ball.  In other words, does the A1 (person about to get the pill) really need support in close.  Yesterday's example was Petracca (identifying this near the city end) peeling off offensively and dangerously, and having faith that his teammate would win the possession.

Other factors involve defensive spread (which primarily require leg-speed), workrate and restricting dangerous space.

 

Alternatives?

If you don't do well with uncontested possession, then you have an unhealthy reliance on winning clearances and gaining territory into F50.  You also have an unhealthy reliance on your forwards keeping the pill in our forward 50.  Mooney on Fox Footy yesterday overheard (3/4 time break) that Port didn't rate our forwards applying pressure, and coaching staff advised Port's backs to take stock coming out of their backline.

 

Have we built a list that incorporates all these variables?  I think it is important to start judging players on the whole, rather than the simple (good v bad, slow v fast).

 

 

 

Spargo is quick, but not lightening.  He rarely breaks a tackle.  I don't think his change of direction speed is great either.  Spargo needs bulk (to break a tackle) amongst other things to earn a spot.

Lewis should retire now.  Other than his foot skills, I can only see him being a liability in the decongested era.  I have said repeatedly over the past few years, Watts could have done Lewis's onfield role with much more upside.

Frost is the new whipping boy.  But the simpletons are mad thinking he is our greatest problem.  He is super-quick.  His change of direction was hampered by wearing ice-skates yesterday.  When he gets it, he attracts 2-3 opposition, which in theory should create the overlap opportunity.  I would like to see him bulk up a bit and break a few more tackles.

Hunt - must play.  Speed, change-of-direction and overlap.  With 6/6/6 dump kicks into F50 will now go to 1-on-1s or 2-on-2s more often.

Brayshaw - tackle evasion/breaking is understated; foot skills are better than what he has been given credit for; his non-dominant side foot skills are on the way (not there yet) to what Mitchell's was like.

 

Melbourne under Goodwin and Roos have built a list of competitors that are suited to congestion.  On paper, it is a 'pretty good list', but when it is judged on these variables, it comes up short.

 

 

pTGR

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tim Kelly on track for a Brownlow.

We are on track for oblivion.

Collingwood on track for the flag.

 

 

Easy to pick after round 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    THE 2020 EQUATION by Whispering Jack

    The 2020 equation is simple for the Melbourne Football Club – it must keep winning and it must take some big scalps during the second half of the season without dropping games against the lesser lights. The Demons have gone down this season to the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th teams on the ladder including twice by less than a goal in games that could easily have gone the other way. Against that, they have beaten 11th, 13th, 14th and 18th and though they thumped the Crows during the week, the

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE TORRENS THUMPING by George on the Outer

    THE TORRENS THUMPING - LEAVING THE DEMONS BEHIND That headline might lead a reader to think that Melbourne had lost badly in Adelaide but no!  It was actually the MFC which left it’s demons from the previous week behind as it applied the blowtorch to the Crows in the final quarter of their match at the Adelaide Oval and went on their merry way to record a 51 point win before their biggest crowd of the year (even if they were mainly hostile). Much had been made in the media about t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    STATE OF DEESASTER by the Oracle

    Melbourne’s circus caravan rolls into Adelaide on Wednesday night, an event that will put shivers up the spine of every Crows’ supporter as they look directly into the face of disaster. The flakey Demons left their home town a month ago and proceeded to rough up the Gold Coast Suns and Hawthorn in Sydney before moving on to the sunny Queensland where they missed by a bee’s diaphragm against the more or less local second-on-ladder Brisbane Lions. Then, they had to butter up against the top t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    OVERPOWERED by George on the Outer

    In a dismal display against Port Adelaide, Melbourne showed it had learnt nothing from their previous week’s loss to Brisbane. Port, in contrast, after losing to St.Kilda, addressed their failings, and as a result made the Demons look like a second-rate side.  Melbourne failed to score a goal in the first quarter, and the first time it seriously troubled the goal umpire was saved until a minute before half-time.  Did it get any better?  No with their meagre three goals for the sec

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    DESPERATION OF THE MOMENT by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne’s recent win against Hawthorn highlighted how important Max Gawn’s ruck domination is for the team. A week later however, that domination continued but its effect was totally blunted by the Brisbane Lions midfield and, as a consequence, what could have been an easy win over a leading AFL contender turned into a disappointing but close loss and a sense of desperation now looms over the club as the halfway mark of the season approaches. This week’s opponent in Port Adelaide also und

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE FOUR POINT FAIL by George on the Outer

    Melbourne went down by 4 points in a thrilling finish against Brisbane, but they failed by more than the 4 points.     They also failed to score the 4 points necessary to keep them in the race for the finals, and now find themselves sitting 6 points outside the top 8, but effectively 2 games outside (even though they have a game in hand).   The Demons had more than enough opportunities to win.  Six very easy shots on goal failed to bother the goal umpire with a major and ultimate

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    NORTH OF THE BORDER PART 2 by The Oracle

    The travelling COVID circus moves north of the border yet again and, unless at some time in the near future, Papua New Guinea opens its borders, this could be the last time this phenomenon happens. And as fortune would dictate, the resurgent Demons are walking directly into the sights of the locals from the bright lights of Brizvegas to Carrara - the scene of some long-forgotten (and deservedly so) battles with one of the Lions’ former incarnations, namely, the Brisbane Bears. But unli

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ON THE NOSE by George on the Outer

    One of the Hawthorn Football Club’s valued sponsors is Azep® Nasal Spray and given the thrashing handed out to the Hawks in today’s game, it would appear that they need a huge supply of the sponsor’s product because they are simply on the nose. This condition was caused by the sheer dominance of the Demons, led magnificently by skipper Max Gawn with 27 hitouts and 22 disposals including two clearances. Around him in the middle were Christian Petracca with 29 touches, Clayton Oliver (also on

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PREMIER LEAGUE by Whispering Jack

    So the new man under the pump is Clarko, which demonstrates how sad but predictable the football media is these days. In an age where each AFL team’s form can be topsy turvy and unpredictability is the order of the day, the coach of a team that has played five out of the top six teams from the previous season and sits with a 3/3 win loss record is this week’s whipping boy.   This comes admittedly on the back of a bad fortnight from the Hawks who in recent years have exhibited an enormous

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    SUNSMART by George on the Outer

    If you don’t want to get sunburnt, you follow the Sunsmart rules.  Melbourne took the advice and with their season on the line, avoided getting burnt by the Gold Coast Suns, with a gripping 17 point win. It was a match that could have gone either way, with the sides within a kick of each other for all but the final minutes of the final quarter. Melbourne had stretched the lead earlier in the game to 18 points, but that quickly evaporated to a neck and neck race to the finish.  Finally,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    NORTH OF THE BORDER by The Oracle

    The outcomes of Melbourne’s recent games against the Gold Coast Suns are a pretty good barometer of how the teams are faring. The Demons easily accounted for them twice in 2018, the last win being a 96-point cakewalk at the MCG in Round 20 when they scored a whopping 21.17.143 to 7.5.47. Ironically, Melbourne’s score of 9.3.57 at the first break that afternoon is leading its highest score for a full game to date this year by 3 points. In those days, they played fast, skillful football, moved th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 5

    PACK YOUR BAGS by George on The Outer

    The scene was captured by the TV camera’s before the match with a view of the Melbourne side’s bags packed next to the team bus to facilitate their flight up north to the AFL hub where they will play their next matches. However, on the basis of the efforts against Richmond, unless things change, and change rapidly, there will be some who will be told to pack their bags on a more permanent basis. Once again, the supporters got much the same story from this match against Richmond, as

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...