On 15/11/2017 at 05:22, Wrecker45 said:

You misunderstand conservatism.

 

Really? With the Macquarie Dictionary by my side, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my understanding of conservatism.

For someone so engaged in political discussion, I'm genuinely surprised at how fundamentally mistaken you are in understanding your own team's ethos. The mental gymnastics required to present conservatism as a driver of social change reminds me of Jumbo Returns theory that Jack Watts is only in his 4th year of football. 

Anyway, don't take my word for it, here's Abbott in The Australian yesterday:

"The most persuasive advocates of same-sex marriage have a point when they characterise it as merely the latest manifestation of the decency and generosity of spirit that has long characterised Western societies. But how long can we slice and dice the ethical understandings on which our civilisation has rested? How far can we accept the redefinition of concepts that have always been taken for granted; assert rights without corresponding responsibilities; allow every opinion to be equally valid; or seek to give what we haven’t actually got? If we don’t want to end up at the bottom of a slippery slope, we have to be careful about starting down in the first place."

 

 

 

The very highest "yes" voting seats were actually Labor- and Greens-held seats in inner Sydney and Melbourne. It was also great that there was a huge "yes" vote in many strongly-held Liberal seats e.g. Higgins. 

The highest "no" voting seats being in Sydney's West and Melbourne's Bruce and Calwell doesn't surprise me either. Their inhabitants tend to be (one or a combination of) lower-educated, working class, migrants (especially those of Asian descent), Catholics, Muslims and/or happy clappers of the type who featured in the "no" campaign ads.

But let's not make this wonderful result a stupid left-right Liberal-Labor political argument. The vote was a resounding 62% and it's terrific, especially for all my gay and lesbian friends who all want to get married to their long-term partners.

Great day.

 

61% of our fellow countrymen and women put human happiness above bigotry. 

After Trump and Brexit, my faith in humanity was starting to falter.

Today showed me that if people are actually exposed to the constituencies they are told to hate by the Tories and the knuckledraggers, they overwhelmingly vote in favor of people instead of hate. 

We all have gay relatives, friends and co-workers. The wingnuts’ bulls&&t campaign using the fear of the unknown fell to pieces as the unknown was actually known.

  On 15/11/2017 at 07:45, mauriesy said:

The highest "no" voting seats being in Sydney's West and Melbourne's Bruce and Calwell doesn't surprise me either. Their inhabitants tend to be (one or a combination of) lower-educated, working class, migrants (especially those of Asian descent), Catholics, Muslims and/or happy clappers of the type who featured in the "no" campaign ads.

Cut the crap.

It was the Muslim vote.  That's it.

  On 15/11/2017 at 09:58, ProDee said:

Cut the crap.

It was the Muslim vote.  That's it.

Absolute [censored]!  The christians were at it probably to a greater degree than the muslims; particularly the catholics.  I saw a lot of vote No campaigning on Facebook and in letterbox drops from christian groups, and saw not one from muslim groups.

  On 15/11/2017 at 10:04, hardtack said:

Absolute [censored]!  The christians were at it probably to a greater degree than the muslims; particularly the catholics. 

You're a dope.

Every practising Muslim voted no. Every single one.

At least 60% of Australians identify as Christian and you saw the result.

No wonder you're a Leftist with that type of thinking.

Btw, I'm waiting for you on another thread.  Unsurprisingly, you've run away.

  On 15/11/2017 at 10:09, ProDee said:

You're a dope.

Every practising Muslim voted no. Every single one.

At least 60% of Australians identify as Christian and you saw the result.

No wonder you're a Leftist with that type of thinking.

Btw, I'm waiting for you on another thread.  Unsurprisingly, you've run away.

Get real, Mr. ‘Transgenderism is a Mental Disorder’.

Don’t you dare try to make your ‘tribe’ (who you have only a tangential connection to anyway as you are already breaking one of the Ten Commandments here by bearing false witness against your neighbor) look more ‘enlightened’ by citing certain voting numbers in order to put down someone else who you routinely vilify.

But let me guess. Yasmin Abdel-Magied probably voted yes because she ‘hates Australia’?

BTW, I’m still waiting for some elaboration on our debate about people seeking asylum. From memory, you told me that you didn’t care about facts but you wanted to lock people up anyway. That was actually the second most hypocritical statement you made in that exchange. You swore black and blue that your views were not motivated by religious discrimination. Yet, one thread later stated that refugees shouldn’t be allowed into Australia because of the threat of dangerous Islam. Typical right wing tough guy.

Get prepared to change your AV to a picture of Tucker pulling this face as the public have worked out the scam you and your rock ape friends have tried to pull in trying to foist your faux right wing populism on the electorate.

 

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:02, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Get real, Mr. ‘Transgenderism is a Mental Disorder’.

Don’t you dare try to make your ‘tribe’ (who you have only a tangential connection to anyway as you are already breaking one of the Ten Commandments here by bearing false witness against your neighbor) look more ‘enlightened’ by citing certain voting numbers in order to put down someone else who you routinely vilify. 

BTW, I’m still waiting for some elaboration on our debate about people seeking asylum. From memory, you told me that you didn’t care about facts but you wanted to lock people up anyway. That was actually the second most hypocritical statement you made in that exchange. You swore black and blue that your views were not motivated by religious discrimination. Yet, one thread later stated that refugees shouldn’t be allowed into Australia because of the threat of dangerous Islam. Typical right wing tough guy.

Get prepared to change your AV to a picture of Tucker pulling this face as the public have worked out the scam you and your rock ape friends have tried to pull in trying to foist your faux right wing populism on the electorate.

 

Deranged Lefties are out in force being suddenly enabled by the goodwill of the Australian people..

Can't even remember the debate you're referring to.  Remind me if you like.

But yes, WHO and any self respecting psychiatric organisation acknowledges that there's no such thing as transgender and it is indeed a mental illness.  The Danes were the first to declassify it as an illness earlier this year, so that's the mad world we're starting to encounter.

Unfortunately, those that should be treated for gender dysphoria are often encouraged by self-serving genderfluid Marxist activists. It's at the expense of what's (usually) a very treatable illness.

You're an utterly contemptible lot.

 

  On 15/11/2017 at 10:09, ProDee said:

You're a dope.

Every practising Muslim voted no. Every single one.

At least 60% of Australians identify as Christian and you saw the result.

No wonder you're a Leftist with that type of thinking.

Btw, I'm waiting for you on another thread.  Unsurprisingly, you've run away.

I happen to know quite a few practicing muslims who voted Yes... but you can be happy in your own little fantasy land as long as it suits your prejudices.  Nothing to do with my leanings one way or the other... but as usual you find it helpful to place things in neat little boxes because that makes it easier for you.

As for the other thread, don't hold your breath.  You put up a video by a guy who has a degree in engineering and absolutely NOTHING in the area of climate science and expect me to sit through that.  Forget it... I'm tired of your pizzing up a wall/dick measuring contests that seem to be designed to make you (cough) feel in some way superior (cough). 

I'm wondering what you hope to gain from the amount of material you post, knowing that it is not impressing anyone, knowing that it is not convincing anyone, and that is obviously using up an inordinate amount of your time, of which you seem to have far too much.  It's almost like you forgot to take your medication over the past few days (I'm assuming here that there has to be some kind of reasonable explanation for your behaviour).

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:11, ProDee said:

Deranged Lefties are out in force being suddenly enabled by the goodwill of the Australian people..

Can't even remember the debate you're referring to.  Remind me if you like.

But yes, WHO and any self respecting psychiatric organisation acknowledges that there's no such thing as transgender and it is indeed a mental illness.  The Danes were the first to declassify it as an illness earlier this year, so that's the mad world we're starting to encounter.

Unfortunately, those that should be treated for gender dysphoria are often encouraged by self-serving genderfluid Marxist activists. It's at the expense of what's (usually) a very treatable illness.

You're an utterly contemptible lot.

 

Not as contemptible as you and your piggy backing of a community’s perceived no vote to prove that Christianity is more enlightened. 

You are like the Black Knight from Monty Python. Both arms and legs removed yet you are still going to bite us to death on this one.

Look at the DSMV 5 and it’s redefinition of GID to GDD. The emphasis changed but I’m sure you will pick peanuts out of poop to prove the theories of Andrew Bolt correct.

And by the way, pure Marxism revolves around economics and nothing else (though the Frankfurt school, a counter cultural subset, did rebel against cultural norms). Marxist regimes like Castro’s Cuba and Mugabe’s Zimbabwe routinely discriminated against LGBT minorities. It’s your own intellectual laziness that leads you to make banal statements like that.

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:17, hardtack said:

I happen to know quite a few practicing muslims who voted Yes... but you can be happy in your own little fantasy land as long as it suits your prejudices.  Nothing to do with my leanings one way or the other... but as usual you find it helpful to place things in neat little boxes because that makes it easier for you.

As for the other thread, don't hold your breath.  You put up a video by a guy who has a degree in engineering and absolutely NOTHING in the area of climate science and expect me to sit through that.  Forget it... I'm tired of your pizzing up a wall/dick measuring contests that seem to be designed to make you (cough) feel in some way superior (cough). 

I'm wondering what you hope to gain from the amount of material you post, knowing that it is not impressing anyone, knowing that it is not convincing anyone, and that is obviously using up an inordinate amount of your time, of which you seem to have far too much.  It's almost like you forgot to take your medication over the past few days (I'm assuming here that there has to be some kind of reasonable explanation for your behaviour).

I don't care who I influence or otherwise.  I post for me and no-one else.  Like Turnbull, I'm having the time of my life.  Is he worse than Gillard and only marginally better that Rudd ?

As for Tony Heller...

Rather than rubbish his credentials, which are very reasonable and he's clearly published content of extreme interest, why don't you refute his charts and data ?  Why don't you refute his assertions with intellect and data ?

He shows you NASA graphs that prove his point.  He and others show NASA graphs that prove tampering. He shows verifiable climategate emails, yet all you can talk about is his qualifications.  

You simply must believe that humans are bad and killing the planet.  It's in your DNA.  It wouldn't matter what proof was put before you.  You want to believe. 

But any time you want to engage in debate and debunk my posts you're most welcome to try.

Didn't think so.

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:27, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Not as contemptible as you and your piggy backing of a community’s perceived no vote to prove that Christianity is more enlightened. 

You don't think Christianity is more "enlightened" than Islam and those from benighted middle eastern Islamic cultures ?

You're a cultural relativist ?

It's Leftist enablers like you that help this evil ideology to thrive in the West.   Are you an Israel-hating weirdo too ?

PS: Marxism has evolved into far more than economics and it will be treated as such.

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:37, ProDee said:

You don't think Christianity is more "enlightened" than Islam and those from benighted middle eastern Islamic cultures ?

You're a cultural relativist ?

It's Leftist enablers like you that help this evil ideology to thrive in the West.   Are you an Israel-hating weirdo too ?

PS: Marxism has evolved into far more than economics and it will be treated as such.

I thought you Pepe the Frog/Kek worshippers didn’t like Israel because of the Rothschild/Rockefeller cabal that supposedly controls the UN and world finance? 

Read the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital. I have read the latter (along with Mein Kampf because I am a snowflake who can’t bear to read opposing views) Tell me one passage that relates to sexuality (there is one I can count relating to gender in the old terms) and you may actually not be dismissed as a pompous blowhard.

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:49, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I thought you Pepe the Frog/Kek worshippers didn’t like Israel because of the Rothschild/Rockefeller cabal that supposedly controls the UN and world finance? 

Read the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital. I have read the latter (along with Mein Kampf because I am a snowflake who can’t bear to read opposing views) Tell me one passage that relates to sexuality (there is one I can count relating to gender in the old terms) and you may actually not be dismissed as a pompous blowhard.

I have tremendous respect for Israel as the only civilised culture and democracy in the middle east.

Marxism is going through a renaissance with young Leftists, who decry capitalism and aren't tainted by Stalinist gulags.  What young Lefty doesn't like a revolution ?  Causes evolve and gender fluidity is very much at the core of Leftists who embrace Marxism.  It's just another wedge to influence society and their perceived equality.

It's class politics, which would resonate with Marx, albeit in an entirely different sphere.

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:28, ProDee said:

I don't care who I influence or otherwise.  I post for me and no-one else.  Like Turnbull, I'm having the time of my life.  Is he worse than Gillard and only marginally better that Rudd ?

As for Tony Heller...

Rather than rubbish his credentials, which are very reasonable and he's clearly published content of extreme interest, why don't you refute his charts and data ?  Why don't you refute his assertions with intellect and data ?

He shows you NASA graphs that prove his point.  He and others show NASA graphs that prove tampering. He shows verifiable climategate emails, yet all you can talk about is his qualifications.  

You simply must believe that humans are bad and killing the planet.  It's in your DNA.  It wouldn't matter what proof was put before you.  You want to believe. 

But any time you want to engage in debate and debunk my posts you're most welcome to try.

Didn't think so.

Why would I waste my time and effort on you when anything that I (or anyone else for that matter) say, or any link provided is simply shrugged off as nonsense or some kind of conspiracy?

You prefer to accept the word of the unqualified/barely qualified and those in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry, over that of literally thousands of scientists the world over who have one belief in common... that man made climate change is real and that we should get our house in order. Your choice.

  On 15/11/2017 at 12:10, ProDee said:

I have tremendous respect for Israel as the only civilised culture and democracy in the middle east.

Marxism is going through a renaissance with young Leftists, who decry capitalism and aren't tainted by Stalinist gulags.  What young Lefty doesn't like a revolution ?  Causes evolve and gender fluidity is very much at the core of Leftists who embrace Marxism.  It's just another wedge to influence society and their perceived equality.

It's class politics, which would resonate with Marx, albeit in an entirely different sphere.

 

  On 15/11/2017 at 09:58, ProDee said:

It was the Muslim vote.  That's it.

There aren't enough Muslims enrolled to make a 60-70% "No" vote in those western Sydney electorates. The "No" vote also had to come from other sources. There are plenty of other conservatively religious voters represented in that area to bump it up to that level.

I'm celebrating yesterday's result and I couldn't care less who voted "No", because 62% voted "Yes".

  On 15/11/2017 at 12:41, hardtack said:

Why would I waste my time and effort on you when anything that I (or anyone else for that matter) say, or any link provided is simply shrugged off as nonsense or some kind of conspiracy?

You prefer to accept the word of the unqualified/barely qualified and those in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry, over that of literally thousands of scientists the world over who have one belief in common... that man made climate change is real and that we should get our house in order. Your choice.

That's simply not true.

There's no consensus in science. 

I doubt there are 1000s of scientists who believe man is warming the planet "dangerously".  There are 1000s of scientists who believe that man is contributing to warming the planet, because our 3% contribution to atmospheric CO2 tips the "natural balance" of emission and absorption. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which traps some heat, which isn't in dispute.

But if you didn't blindly follow NASA you'd realise there's enough evidence to say hang on, somethings not right here. 

I accept that's not going to happen at your age.

  On 15/11/2017 at 12:10, ProDee said:

I have tremendous respect for Israel as the only civilised culture and democracy in the middle east.

Marxism is going through a renaissance with young Leftists, who decry capitalism and aren't tainted by Stalinist gulags.  What young Lefty doesn't like a revolution ?  Causes evolve and gender fluidity is very much at the core of Leftists who embrace Marxism.  It's just another wedge to influence society and their perceived equality.

It's class politics, which would resonate with Marx, albeit in an entirely different sphere.

Civilised and democratic only for Jews, not for the original inhabitants. for 

  On 15/11/2017 at 21:24, ProDee said:

That's simply not true.

There's no consensus in science. 

I doubt there are 1000s of scientists who believe man is warming the planet "dangerously".  There are 1000s of scientists who believe that man is contributing to warming the planet, because our 3% contribution to atmospheric CO2 tips the "natural balance" of emission and absorption. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which traps some heat, which isn't in dispute.

But if you didn't blindly follow NASA you'd realise there's enough evidence to say hang on, somethings not right here. 

I accept that's not going to happen at your age.

I don’t know a) why you think I blindly follow NASA; I may have linked to, among many others, a couple of articles that reference them, but I certainly in no way follow NASA; and b) why you think my age has anything to do with this. 

  On 15/11/2017 at 06:28, Grapeviney said:

Really? With the Macquarie Dictionary by my side, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my understanding of conservatism.

For someone so engaged in political discussion, I'm genuinely surprised at how fundamentally mistaken you are in understanding your own team's ethos. The mental gymnastics required to present conservatism as a driver of social change reminds me of Jumbo Returns theory that Jack Watts is only in his 4th year of football. 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty comfortable arguing about conservatism and to be fair I can see why you might be confused. A few points

1) Conservatives have their own opinions guided by a set of principals unlike the left who all seem to think the same thing and tow the same line

2) Conservatives believe in free markets, why would they put restrictions on gay weddings that will clearly boost the countries GDP?

3) Conservatives unlike progressives don't like change for change sake but will change for the greater good

  On 16/11/2017 at 01:19, Wrecker45 said:

I'm pretty comfortable arguing about conservatism and to be fair I can see why you might be confused. A few points

1) Conservatives have their own opinions guided by a set of principals unlike the left who all seem to think the same thing and tow the same line

2) Conservatives believe in free markets, why would they put restrictions on gay weddings that will clearly boost the countries GDP?

3) Conservatives unlike progressives don't like change for change sake but will change for the greater good

You left out a couple of very important points...

4. Conservatives behave like sheep when it comes to decrying the opinions of the left.

5. Conservatives, smugly like to feel that they are superior beings.

 

  On 15/11/2017 at 11:17, hardtack said:

I happen to know quite a few practicing muslims who voted Yes... but you can be happy in your own little fantasy land as long as it suits your prejudices.  Nothing to do with my leanings one way or the other... but as usual you find it helpful to place things in neat little boxes because that makes it easier for you.

 

I happen to know quite a few practicing Muslims who believe in the Koran and therefore want to smite infidels and throw gays off buildings.

Regardless of who we know the statistics clearly show the Electorates heavily populated by Muslims voted strongly in favour of "no".

I realise this fact is upsetting for lefties because they want to side with minorities and the harsh reality is that minorities don't always agree with their values.

  On 16/11/2017 at 01:40, Wrecker45 said:

I happen to know quite a few practicing Muslims who believe in the Koran and therefore want to smite infidels and throw gays off buildings.

Regardless of who we know the statistics clearly show the Electorates heavily populated by Muslims voted strongly in favour of "no".

I realise this fact is upsetting for lefties because they want to side with minorities and the harsh reality is that minorities don't always agree with their values.

This just shows the ignorance that has resulted from your blind hatred of a particular group in our society. As someone else in this thread so right;y pointed out, the number of Muslims registered to vote would pale into insignificance in comparison to those of other religious and cultural beliefs. For example, the seat of Blaxland in Sydney is not only populated by Muslims, but also by Pacific Islanders, Chinese, Vietnamese, Christians (particularly Catholics) and so on. 

Read again the part where I state that not once did I encounter a single piece of material urging muslims to vote No (and I live in an area with a large Lebanese and Turkish population), yet I saw many examples of literature being distributed, particularly directed at members of the Asian community by Christian groups, disseminating false “facts” about the impact of same sex marriage, and urging people to vote No.