Do I seriously need to spell it out for you Biff?

Halting Muslim immigration entirely is the exact same thing as a ban on Muslim immigration.
 

A. Ban.

 

There's no subtle distinction here. No semantic loophole to exploit. You can't wiggle out of this by claiming some sort of intellectual superiority. You blatantly contracted yourself.

You are a massive fool.

47 minutes ago, A F said:

Very important article. This situation has been used in Europe and the Americas to justify a ban on refugees and undermine Merkel's immigration policies. Unfortunately, the people that need to see this article won't.

AF - The Franfurt assaults were fake news but the Cologne ones weren't. Is it ok to use real news to justify bans?

33 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

AF - The Franfurt assaults were fake news but the Cologne ones weren't. Is it ok to use real news to justify bans?

You know for a fact that the Cologne assaults are entirely real news Wrecker?  Everyone thought the Frankfurt assaults were real until very recently... something that must throw a lot of doubt on all mass assaults attributed to refugees.  That's not to say that there weren't sexual assaults, but the figures may well be brought under scrutiny.

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by hardtack

1 hour ago, Choke said:

Do I seriously need to spell it out for you Biff?

Halting Muslim immigration entirely is the exact same thing as a ban on Muslim immigration.
 

A. Ban.

 

There's no subtle distinction here. No semantic loophole to exploit. You can't wiggle out of this by claiming some sort of intellectual superiority. You blatantly contracted yourself.

You are a massive fool.

 Yes.I'd like  muslim immigration halted.

It isn't possible to have a travel ban.

So as you are so thick you do not understand the difference,I will put it this way.....

They should need a return ticket to visit here.

Yes-stop Muslim immigration-not travel.

You are a massive tool.

I've made my position clear.

No more immigration from people who identify as Muslim.

 

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by Biffen

19 minutes ago, hardtack said:

You know for a fact that the Cologne assaults are entirely real news Wrecker?  Everyone thought the Frankfurt assaults were real until very recently... something that must throw a lot of doubt on all mass assaults attributed to refugees.  That's not to say that there weren't sexual assaults, but the figures may well be brought under scrutiny.

Hardtack,

the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Have you asked yourself why 3/4 of the Syrian refugees in Germany were young men, of fighting age.

Were they avoiding national service do you think?

Do you deny that people are fleeing Islamic countries in droves?

WHY?

Is it the responsibility of Europe to take them in ?

WHY?

35 minutes ago, hardtack said:

You know for a fact that the Cologne assaults are entirely real news Wrecker?  Everyone thought the Frankfurt assaults were real until very recently... something that must throw a lot of doubt on all mass assaults attributed to refugees.  That's not to say that there weren't sexual assaults, but the figures may well be brought under scrutiny.

The YouTube footage is pretty compelling. If (and they are) true do you agree Germany should protect citizens first and look at tighter immigration policy?

3 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Hardtack,

the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Have you asked yourself why 3/4 of the Syrian refugees in Germany were young men, of fighting age.

Were they avoiding national service do you think?

Do you deny that people are fleeing Islamic countries in droves?

WHY?

Is it the responsibility of Europe to take them in ?

WHY?

I have not asked why 3/4 of the Syrian refugees in Germany were young men of fighting age because that figure tells us nothing in regards to the actual figures... how many arrive in Germany to begin with (Greece and Italy take far more refugees)?  The figures I have seen indicate 75% are males, but not necessarily all are young males.

One reason (and a reasonable one I would have thought) is that because of the treacherous/physically demanding journey they have to make, the fittest make the journey with a view to establishing somewhere for the rest of the family to join them later; obviously the younger men fit that bill. Of course some may be avoiding national service, but who could blame them when you see what is confronting them.

It's not hard to understand why these people have fled when you see what the combination of ISIS, Russia, Syrian Govt forces and even the USA have done to their cities.  No one is saying that it is Europe's "responsibility", but it certainly could be considered a moral obligation, I would have thought.  These people fleeing did not bring these wars upon themselves and to my way of thinking are just as worthy of support as those caught up in natural disasters.  You can call me a left wing [censored] if you like, but I'd rather that than not care at all.

 

6 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

The YouTube footage is pretty compelling. If (and they are) true do you agree Germany should protect citizens first and look at tighter immigration policy?

I have no problem with that as long as they don't go to the opposite extreme (if they are true... something that must be thrown into doubt now)... a certain amount of compassion must be shown. I don't want them to go the way of Trump and put a blanket ban on everyone just because they come from a particular country, particularly when he is not banning those from the only countries known to have committed acts of terror on the US mainland (all business related of course).

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by hardtack

2 minutes ago, hardtack said:

I have not asked why 3/4 of the Syrian refugees in Germany were young men of fighting age because that figure tells us nothing in regards to the actual figures... how many arrive in Germany to begin with (Greece and Italy take far more refugees)?  The figures I have seen indicate 75% are males, but not necessarily all are young males.

One reason (and a reasonable one I would have thought) is that because of the treacherous/physically demanding journey they have to make, the fittest make the journey with a view to establishing somewhere for the rest of the family to join them later; obviously the younger men fit that bill. Of course some may be avoiding national service, but who could blame them when you see what is confronting them.

It's not hard to understand why these people have fled when you see what the combination of ISIS, Russia, Syrian Govt forces and even the USA have done to their cities.  No one is saying that it is Europe's "responsibility", but it certainly could be considered a moral obligation, I would have thought.  These people fleeing did not bring these wars upon themselves and to my way of thinking are just as worthy of support as those caught up in natural disasters.  You can call me a left wing [censored] if you like, but I'd rather that than not care at all.

 

Syrians were begging the USA to "save" them.

The USA chose not to intervene in any of The Arab Spring conflicts.

Now they get blamed for Syrias domestic crisis.

America simply can't afford to involve itself in these dramas.

It's not a western problem.

Merkel has effectively ruined the EU.

France will be out of it in six months.

Italy is over it also.

Open/porous borders do nothing to solve it.

The only moral obligation a govt has is to the people who elected them.

Governments everywhere are learning this lesson.

 

40 minutes ago, hardtack said:

I have no problem with that as long as they don't go to the opposite extreme (if they are true... something that must be thrown into doubt now)... a certain amount of compassion must be shown. I don't want them to go the way of Trump and put a blanket ban on everyone just because they come from a particular country, particularly when he is not banning those from the only countries known to have committed acts of terror on the US mainland (all business related of course).

I can assure you that the apex gang, the majority of African appearance, ran riot at Moomba last year. I took my 2 year old daughter and saw it with my own eyes. Unfortunately, so did she.

if there is a problem demographic we should call it out rather than being called names for doing so.

 

3 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I was quoting something to highlight how ridiculous it was.

 

Phew.

1 hour ago, dieter said:

Phew.

It's times like these i wish there was a dislike button.

For those who are on one side of the argument, here's a book of non-fiction that is worth reading if you're willing to look at the other side of the argument.  The book is 10 years old now but still relevant. 

Like many other matters of importance, I've always believed in having a fair & balanced view ... however, decisions often need to be made in advance so there's no real room for sitting on the fence. 

Too many nutters are buying into an ideology that often aims to harm ... and many of these nutters act as lone wolfs.  Sometimes laws need to be enacted for the greater good.  Or at least a greater awareness is needed with stronger checks and balances. 

Mark Stein - America Alone: The end of the World As We Know It.

 

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

For those who are on one side of the argument, here's a book of non-fiction that is worth reading if you're willing to look at the other side of the argument.  The book is 10 years old now but still relevant. 

Like many other matters of importance, I've always believed in having a fair & balanced view ... however, decisions often need to be made in advance so there's no real room for sitting on the fence. 

Too many nutters are buying into an ideology that often aims to harm ... and many of these nutters act as lone wolfs.  Sometimes laws need to be enacted for the greater good.  Or at least a greater awareness is needed with stronger checks and balances. 

Mark Stein - America Alone: The end of the World As We Know It.

 

If a Muezzin is waking me up to pray in Australia I will not be tolerating it. 

i merely suggest as does Mark Stein others arise from their slumber now.

 

4 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I can assure you that the apex gang, the majority of African appearance, ran riot at Moomba last year. I took my 2 year old daughter and saw it with my own eyes. Unfortunately, so did she.

if there is a problem demographic we should call it out rather than being called names for doing so.

 

There is a problem demographic.

Namely uneducated Muslim youth.

We will need bigger prisons to "house" them.

4 minutes ago, Biffen said:

If a Muezzin is waking me up to pray in Australia I will not be tolerating it. 

i merely suggest as does Mark Stein others arise from their slumber now.

 

See, I just can't bring myself to have the view that you have on this ... but I don't necessarily (totally) disagree with your view either.  What I do know is that something needs to be done to stop the terrorism. 

I can't abide many on the other side where there seems to be a roll-with-the-punches attitude either.  The "nothing to see here. move on" crowd.  It's as if they need to be directly effected for them to react in a more proactive manner.  But I'm not talking about all those with a differing view on either side.  There's a lot of nuance involved.

I don't have the answers Biff but sitting on one's hands certainly isn't going to work.  I'm not religious at all so if all religions were dispensed with, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

See, I just can't bring myself to have the view that you have on this ... but I don't necessarily (totally) disagree with your view either.  What I do know is that something needs to be done to stop the terrorism. 

I can't abide many on the other side where there seems to be a roll-with-the-punches attitude either.  The "nothing to see here. move on" crowd.  It's as if they need to be directly effected for them to react in a more proactive manner.  But I'm not talking about all those with a differing view on either side.  There's a lot of nuance involved.

I don't have the answers Biff but sitting on one's hands certainly isn't going to work.  I'm not religious at all so if all religions were dispensed with, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

 

 

Your view is acceptable.

I don't roll that way.

This isn't Sweden yet.

Just now, Biffen said:

Your view is acceptable.

I don't roll that way.

This isn't Sweden yet.

Change will happen based on how the public views the issue ... what can't be denied is that more and more people from various countries are voting in right wing governments with variable degrees of right wing policies. 

The concern for me is that the correction may be going too far to the right ... but it will balance itself out over time.  The rise of nationalism & patriotism is a bi-product of those far right views and that can be dangerous.  The violence can end up being shifted rather than eradicated.

 

27 minutes ago, Macca said:

Change will happen based on how the public views the issue ... what can't be denied is that more and more people from various countries are voting in right wing governments with variable degrees of right wing policies. 

The concern for me is that the correction may be going too far to the right ... but it will balance itself out over time.  The rise of nationalism & patriotism is a bi-product of those far right views and that can be dangerous.  The violence can end up being shifted rather than eradicated.

 

Violence is a part of life.

It will never be eradicated.

 

18 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Violence is a part of life.

It will never be eradicated.

It's the tone & language I'm referencing.

What you and others want, can be achieved with sensible policy without whipping people up into a frenzy.  Otherwise, a lot of anger & hate can be misdirected into the wrong areas.  

The aggressive talk isn't actually needed ... there's executive orders, a large majority in congress and a workable majority in the senate.  A lot can be achieved and enacted as a matter of course.

That book that I linked up highlights that thinking ... just present all the facts and data without any overemotional or overly dramatic rhetoric.

 

 

 

.

 

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by Macca

1 hour ago, Macca said:

See, I just can't bring myself to have the view that you have on this ... but I don't necessarily (totally) disagree with your view either.  What I do know is that something needs to be done to stop the terrorism. 

I can't abide many on the other side where there seems to be a roll-with-the-punches attitude either.  The "nothing to see here. move on" crowd.  It's as if they need to be directly effected for them to react in a more proactive manner.  But I'm not talking about all those with a differing view on either side.  There's a lot of nuance involved.

I don't have the answers Biff but sitting on one's hands certainly isn't going to work.  I'm not religious at all so if all religions were dispensed with, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

 

 

Can you please nominate one act of muslim terrorism committed in Australia?

I can nominate a thousand acts of terrorism committed by the USA and Australia and Britain, the so-called coalition of the willing - against Muslims though.

You have more chance of being bittten by a shark than being killed by a Muslim in this country.

Or, if you are a woman, being murdered or bashed by your white trash christian husband or boyfriend.

1 hour ago, dieter said:

Can you please nominate one act of muslim terrorism committed in Australia?

I can nominate a thousand acts of terrorism committed by the USA and Australia and Britain, the so-called coalition of the willing - against Muslims though.

You have more chance of being bittten by a shark than being killed by a Muslim in this country.

Or, if you are a woman, being murdered or bashed by your white trash christian husband or boyfriend.

I wasn't specifically talking about Australia if you read my post correctly diets - it was Biff who made the reference to Australia.  I'm merely endeavoring to promote a balanced view.

You're better off talking to those on the opposite side of the argument. 

However, if checks and balances need to be amp'd up, so be it.  Again, more so from a bigger picture point of view.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by Macca

18 minutes ago, Macca said:

I wasn't specifically talking about Australia if you read my post correctly ... and I'm not going to be painted into a corner as an anti-islam person either. 

I merely am endeavoring to promote a balanced view but that doesn't sit well with a lot of people ... we're supposed to pick a side and defend it to the death.  I'm not wired that way dieter and never have been. 

You're better off taking on those on the opposite side of the argument. 

You'll get nowhere though ... those with extreme views on any subject matter rarely budge an inch. 

 

 

Sorry,I didn't mean to 'paint you into a corner'. I guess I was trying to say that the terrorist stuff is orchestrated to make it seem that Muslims are the threat they really aren't.

I agree entirely that one cannot argue with a bigot: it's a waste of time and energy.

When you think about it, the whole issue is a semi-tragic farce. It was brought to a head by the Twin Towers catastrophe where allegedly some Saudi Arabian jerkoff playboys  who couldn't even land a Cessna hijacked some planes and flew them into various buildings. Apparently Rumsfelt said ten minutes after it happened that this was the USA's chance to now bomb Iraq into oblivion. Instead they started a war in Afghanistan which is ongoing, which as recently as a week ago, some gung ho clown demanded yet another escalation thereof. They then went, on the basis of a fatuous and contemptible lie, to destroy a country created by Sykes/Picquot called Iraq.The Neo-Con agenda - all of which is documented in emails and leaked correspondence - of forcing regime change in Libya, Egypt, Syria, and ultimately Iran followed and is continuing.

An ex USA bomber Pilot who saw the light recently wrote that it occurred to him one day that you cannot continuously bomb the bejesus out of people without these same people one day saying, F you, I've had enough.

In the meantime, though we are part of this whole regime of terror and destruction, idiots like Lambie and Hanson and the Abbotts and Howards live in fear of what has yet to happen,  that is a 'Genuine' act of reprisal by the victims of the atrocities we have committed. Yes, we, white man, we are part of that coalition.

In the meantime there is astounding evidence that many of the so-called terrorist attacks are in fact false flag operations.

I know, the right wing lunatics who feel its their right and obligation to bomb the crap out of countries will call me a 'conspiracy theorist'. Yep, I am one, I admit.

And, to finish, I will point you in the direction of why I am one.

Number one. Just google 9/11, Building 7.

Number 2. Just google the Pentagon Plane hit.

Number 3. Just consider in the cold light of day how a CIA goon was able to find in the red hot molten rubble of the twin towers the intact passport of the so-called leader and pilot of one of the planes.

Once you have done this and you still believe the official story about 9/11 you are either brainwashed or stupid or so totally bigoted that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Why is 9/11 relevant to all this?

Simply because all the mindless and bigoted and racist paranoia we've seen on this site stem from this treacherous act. An act performed, just ask the Biffins and Pro Dees of the world, by MUSLIMS. All the stupid and mind-numbing contradictions in their stance and the basis of their paranoid fears go back to this act of treachery.

I put it to you, Macca, we are being led way towards the cliff by pied pipers who are evil bulldusters.

 

d-l is that you?

Diets, I won't quote your (lengthy) post but never the less, I did enjoy the rant.

And yes, there's a lot of unknown known unknowns.