1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

I suppose only time will tell if Hawthorn's got it right this year but pushing out 4-time premiership players who have taken pay cuts to stay together and deliver huge success, high membership and money for the club, to bring in a hack (Vickery), an unproven injury-prone kid (O'Meara), and a good, even great, but nothing exceptional midfielder (T Mitchell) surely won't sit well with the rest of Hawthorn's list, will it?

Knowing Hawthorn, it'll probably all work out, but fingers crossed it doesn't and it all blows up in their faces.

..... shades of a club which plummeted to the bottom after pushing out a much-loved former captain .... his name was James MacDonald................... ( Here's hoping!)

The whole system is corrupt.  If O'Meara is over his injuries Hawthorn have just guaranteed themselves to be a top 4 side for the next 5 years. 

Sides finishing in the top 4 should not be allowed to trade for elite players during the trade period without paying a heavy penalty.

10 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

The whole system is corrupt.  If O'Meara is over his injuries Hawthorn have just guaranteed themselves to be a top 4 side for the next 5 years. 

Sides finishing in the top 4 should not be allowed to trade for elite players during the trade period without paying a heavy penalty.

I don't think trading is the issue.

I agree with that concept for free agency though - if you're in the top 4 you can't bring in free agents.

The issue here IMHO is players nominating destinations. If you're under contract, you go where your club trades you. In exchange, you get free agency.

There used to be a powerhouse club called Carlton and they embarked on a spree over a number of years buying talent where needed and rarely developing their own, consequently their President went on to say "Carlton don't rebuild", in essence referring to the fact that if they need to they will just buy in another player. They became lazy and failed to develop their own and didn't realise that their bottom tier were not up to it and that you can't be carried by a few names at the top.

Hawthorn may fall in to the same trap if they continue to rely on poaching other club's talent and not developing their own, their drafting record over the last 5 years has been very ordinary and the older stars that have carried the club for so long are ageing and incapable of the same magic they once were.

They have lost 1 and 2 in their B&F from last season and will in all probability lose 2 or 3 of their remaining stars at the end of the next season, will O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickers make up for them, who have they got coming through.  Interesting times and this will tell whether they are going to stay on top or decline like Carlton.

They have traded first round picks for this and next year, where is the talent coming from, remembering that their last influx of genuine talent came very early in the draft.

 

 

 

They have a plan and are aggressively pursuing it.  if they can pick up Fyfe or Martin next year in FAwith rlthe salary cap they'll free up then they'll be right back amongst it.

Not sure why Lewis is part of the plan to get a Big Fish FA next year. He was in his last year of a contract with the Hawks and they didn't need to offer him another contract past his current contract. Therefore they could get their FA at the end of 2017 and have Lewis paying for them in the 2017 season proper. 

 

Its a conspiricy theory that does not add up. 

On 26 October 2016 at 11:09 AM, Cranky Franky said:

The whole system is corrupt.  If O'Meara is over his injuries Hawthorn have just guaranteed themselves to be a top 4 side for the next 5 years. 

Sides finishing in the top 4 should not be allowed to trade for elite players during the trade period without paying a heavy penalty.

Tom Mitchell was an absolute steal for pick 14, but make no mistake - the Hawks have paid a mammoth price to get O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery to the club, even though, in isolation, each of those trades didn't cost them too much draft pick wise.

It seems to me that they misjudged/mishandled the Lewis situation in that they thought he would see out his contract on the basis that he would never ever elect to leave the club and that he would also back himself on his performance next year to earn one more year beyond that and then perhaps retire as a one club player.

In short, they knew they needed to refresh their midfield group, but they factored in losing only one of Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis in order to obtain and then integrate Tom Mitchell and O'Meara into the midfield next year. Then, at the end of next season, they would be in a position to assess the importance of Lewis to the midfield group based upon:

- Lewis' individual performance next year; 

- the performance of their midfield more generally next year; and

- the availability of other elite mids next year, eg, Fyfe etc.

BUT - Jordan didn't fall into line and he directed his manager to contact the mighty fighting Demons and the rest is history.

It's a pity Carlton agreed to do the deal that enabled the Hawks to land O'Meara at the 12th hour because, absent that, the trade period would've been an unmitigated disaster for the club.

We are the real beneficiaries of this trade period, not clubs like the Hawks. We entered it with a couple of used paddle pop sticks and came out of it with Lewis and Hibberd. And, bizarrely, still possessing one of the used paddle pop sticks.

God bless Josh Mahoney.

 

10 hours ago, Dante said:

There used to be a powerhouse club called Carlton and they embarked on a spree over a number of years buying talent where needed and rarely developing their own, consequently their President went on to say "Carlton don't rebuild", in essence referring to the fact that if they need to they will just buy in another player. They became lazy and failed to develop their own and didn't realise that their bottom tier were not up to it and that you can't be carried by a few names at the top.

Hawthorn may fall in to the same trap if they continue to rely on poaching other club's talent and not developing their own, their drafting record over the last 5 years has been very ordinary and the older stars that have carried the club for so long are ageing and incapable of the same magic they once were.

They have lost 1 and 2 in their B&F from last season and will in all probability lose 2 or 3 of their remaining stars at the end of the next season, will O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickers make up for them, who have they got coming through.  Interesting times and this will tell whether they are going to stay on top or decline like Carlton.

They have traded first round picks for this and next year, where is the talent coming from, remembering that their last influx of genuine talent came very early in the draft.

Let's hope the comparison is apt.

I certainly don't fear Hawthorn anymore. I just can't see them challenging again with this generation. Roughy will probably never play again. I don't see them having the forward firepower to get the job done. Mitchell is a good player. He's an A grader, but not sure he has the tools to become A+, which is what they'll need. And O'Meara won't play more than 22 games for the Hawks. 

6 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

They have a plan and are aggressively pursuing it.  if they can pick up Fyfe or Martin next year in FAwith rlthe salary cap they'll free up then they'll be right back amongst it.

Even if they got Fyfe or Martin I just don't see them winning another flag.

Their midfield is Mitchell, Fyfe... and then who? Maybe O'Meara, but doubtful. You need a lot more than three mids. 

Clarkson is obviously one of the greats, but their greats have slowed or left and these new guys aren't in the same class. Fyfe would be obviously, but the rest? Nah.

 

9 hours ago, A F said:

Let's hope the comparison is apt.

I certainly don't fear Hawthorn anymore. I just can't see them challenging again with this generation. Roughy will probably never play again. I don't see them having the forward firepower to get the job done. Mitchell is a good player. He's an A grader, but not sure he has the tools to become A+, which is what they'll need. And O'Meara won't play more than 22 games for the Hawks. 

Even if they got Fyfe or Martin I just don't see them winning another flag.

Their midfield is Mitchell, Fyfe... and then who? Maybe O'Meara, but doubtful. You need a lot more than three mids. 

Clarkson is obviously one of the greats, but their greats have slowed or left and these new guys aren't in the same class. Fyfe would be obviously, but the rest? Nah.

 

I agree with that, they will miss Sam Mitchell much more than most expect. They have had an A grade midfield and an A grade backline, now they will have a relatively inexperienced midfield, Mitchell and O'Meara are both relatively young and O'Meara has had some serious injuries that are yet to be tested, whilst their backline relies on the three ageing stars, Hodge, Burgoyne and Gibson.

Even if they get Fyffe, will he make the difference, I doubt it, he can't play everywhere. 

Their backline will be under pressure, they don't have enough goal kickers, Vickery, I don't think so and they put Puopolo on the table so they have obviously lost faith in him. It will be interesting to see how the lesser lights perform without the armchair ride they've been given in the past.

 

I think it depends on whether O'Meara can get back to where he was before he was injured - he was the best young player in the competition and if he has recovered from his injuries then during 2017 he will adapt to Hawthorn's plan and in 2018 should be playing great footy.  T.Mitchell is a good replacement for Lewis and a fit O'Meara is a good replacement for S.Mitchell.  Hawthorn will lose Burgoyne but if they could replace him with Fyfe they'll be right back in it.  I expect them to finish 7-12 next year.  In 2018 I think it depends on O'Meara and Fyfe.:

• 1-6 and in flag contention: O'Meara fit and Fyfe FA
• 7-12: one of O'Meara fit and Fyfe FA
• 13-18: neither O'Meara fit or Fyfe FA

Edited November 9, 20168 yr by Fifty-5

Dont know why Fyffe is pencilled in at the Hawks. If he had any sense he would come to the Dees and win a flag....

On 11/10/2016 at 1:45 PM, Fat Tony said:

The answer to fixing this is via the salary cap. Give the wooden spooner $100K more cap space than 17th, and 17th $100K more than 16th etc. This would mean that the bottom team would have an extra $1.7m in the salary cap than the premier. Players could then become free agents from after the initial contract but the competition would still be even.

First thing I've read that actually targets bottom dwelling clubs. Worth a thought 

On 10/11/2016 at 1:45 PM, Fat Tony said:

The answer to fixing this is via the salary cap. Give the wooden spooner $100K more cap space than 17th, and 17th $100K more than 16th etc. This would mean that the bottom team would have an extra $1.7m in the salary cap than the premier. Players could then become free agents from after the initial contract but the competition would still be even.

This could cause future problems Fat's. What would happen when a side jumps several positions in one season, how do they pay their contracted players with a reduced cap?

12 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think it depends on whether O'Meara can get back to where he was before he was injured - he was the best young player in the competition and if he has recovered from his injuries then during 2017 he will adapt to Hawthorn's plan and in 2018 should be playing great footy.  T.Mitchell is a good replacement for Lewis and a fit O'Meara is a good replacement for S.Mitchell.  Hawthorn will lose Burgoyne but if they could replace him with Fyfe they'll be right back in it.  I expect them to finish 7-12 next year.  In 2018 I think it depends on O'Meara and Fyfe.:

• 1-6 and in flag contention: O'Meara fit and Fyfe FA
• 7-12: one of O'Meara fit and Fyfe FA
• 13-18: neither O'Meara fit or Fyfe FA

They couldn't win it this year with Lewis, Mitchell and Burgoyne, so why would replacing them with Mitchell, O'Meara and Fyfe be any better? Plus, they'd lose Gibson and Hodge by then too. They're finished, IMO. If they keep going down the lazy path of topping up, they'll be destined to ultimately put themselves in the cold for longer.