7 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

[edit] by the way Stuie, I chair a committee on Domestic Violence against women.  You do understand I purposely differentiated in my posts between violence against women and responsible journalism.  Do you? 

No wonder it's still a problem then if there's people like you who victim blame and add "howevers" and "buts" to their statements.

You should know better really.

 

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Actually made me chuckle Stu. Who'd have thought it.

24 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

I completely disagree. 

The idea that there is some kind of spectrum with violence against women at one end and off-colour jokes at the other is absolute rubbish. They are two very different things and to argue that there is a relationship between them is to misdiagnose the problem and to unjustly accuse virtually all men of contributing to domestic violence.

I understand this is the view of many anti-domestic violence activists and is an idea put forward by the government's own advertising on the issue, but it just does not stand up to any scrutiny. Clearly, the act of actually committing violence against a woman requires a series of immensely warped internal behavioural mechanisms most often promulgated by the behaviour of close male role models in the perpetrator's life. Violence against women is not 'permitted' by off-colour jokes like MacGuire's. How else do we explain the fact that all men have heard jokes like MacGuire's yet only a small percentage of men engage in domestic violence? Clearly there are other factors at play apart from jokes/banter etc.     

The idea that it does misdiagnoses the problem and makes virtually every woman a victim of domestic violence and virtually every man a perpetrator. Not only is this completely unjust, but more importantly, means we are no closer to actually stopping violence against women.   

Realistically, the fact that Caro (who I greatly respect by the way) is a combative investigative journalist by choice means that she is more than fair game for crude jokes like MacGuire's and Frawley's.  

Could not disagree with this more and actually think you have missed the point. 

It matters not how hard hitting Caro is, crude jokes are not justified full stop. 

No one is saying jokes like this are domestic violence, or even on the spectrum. What they are is an indication of a culture where it is acceptable to denigrate and disrespect women, that is a world where the few nutters find acceptance for what they are doing. If we cut out the disrespectful culture then the nutters will not have the acceptance or think they have the right to do what they do. Yes some still will, but some wont, that is the point. 

 

No that is extremely distasteful and I find it exceedingly offensive.  Please show me where I have engaged in victim blaming.  Moderators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

No wonder it's still a problem then if there's people like you who victim blame and add "howevers" and "buts" to their statements.

You should know better really.

 

Edited June 20, 20169 yr by iv'a worn smith

32 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Wilson goes hard at people in her writing because she knows she will get away with it...

She's a journalist you nonce.

She goes hard at a story because that's her job. People get their fragile egos rattled, attack her and she stands her ground, what the hell does she 'get away with' exactly? 

And unlike most, she has apologised on occasions where she has got a story wrong. 

To think poor Eddie and others like him need protecting from the bad, bad lady - grow up.

21 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

She had a personal Vendetta against Schwab at the time. I know that. 

And she led the charge to take down the MFC because of it make no mistake...

And? I may not disagree with any of that, but none of that is a threat of violence and none of it warrants a threat of violence in return. 

2 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

I have one question on Eddie's comments during the Freeze MND event.

For comments that were made on radio on Monday, why has this story just exploded yesterday and today, almost a week later?

I don't want to discuss the comments themselves - just genuinely wondering why on earth it has taken this long to become a story...

Because it takes a while for the female contingent of the confected outrage group to gather their forces.....

What they are saying is that its OK to joke about violence unless its about a female..

Let's face it Eddie, Frawley and Brayshaw are not people's favourites and what they said is stupid but its the womens lobby that has become outraged. And not becuase they are advocating violence- even in a joking fashion - but because a female is the brunt of the joke. So where is all the outrage when they are advocating violence (albeit jokingly) against males?? Or is that supposed to be OK and 'blokey'??

5 minutes ago, Chris said:

Could not disagree with this more and actually think you have missed the point. 

It matters not how hard hitting Caro is, crude jokes are not justified full stop. 

No one is saying jokes like this are domestic violence, or even on the spectrum. What they are is an indication of a culture where it is acceptable to denigrate and disrespect women, that is a world where the few nutters find acceptance for what they are doing. If we cut out the disrespectful culture then the nutters will not have the acceptance or think they have the right to do what they do. Yes some still will, but some wont, that is the point. 

As I said in a previous post, do you really think there is an "accepting culture" of domestic violence in Australia? Do you know anyone who thinks it's okay to attack a woman?

Eddie needs to do less of this....

and more of this.....

5 minutes ago, Chris said:

And? I may not disagree with any of that, but none of that is a threat of violence and none of it warrants a threat of violence in return. 

Who said it did Chris?  I am treating the quality of her journalism as a completely separate issue.  Would you like me to start a new topic?

Edited June 20, 20169 yr by iv'a worn smith

So when is anyone who is bashing the triple M crew gonna acknowledge that 3AW commentators said the exact same comments about Wilson on their station with Carro in the box at the time and she just laughed it off and said "Oh boys".

they too said people would be lining up to push her down the slide and made the same joke about holding her under.

Corro didn't mention a thing about 3AW in her article today about McGuire and the triple M commentators.

either go after everyone or no one at all.

1 hour ago, Undeeterred said:

What's wrong with 'Gee what a crap journalist with no integrity' (or something else relevant to their professional relationship) rather than 'wouldn't it be great to drown her'.

Because you will be fired from your job and subject to ridicule just the same......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3610502/Sydney-trader-Bell-Potter-Angus-Aitken-leaves-job-controversial-email-ANZ-CFO.html

Read this and you will see that your comment would still be unacceptable because a woman is involved. This is how the people who are "professional offendees" operate. 

Edited June 20, 20169 yr by jnrmac

1 minute ago, Ricky P said:

As I said in a previous post, do you really think there is an "accepting culture" of domestic violence in Australia? Do you know anyone who thinks it's okay to attack a woman?

Not publicly Ricky, but I bet someone you know has abused a partner and no one knows about it. 

There is certainly an accepting culture in this country of disrespecting women, there is no argument for that. 

3 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Who said it did Chris?  I am treating the quality of her journalism as a complete separate issue.  Would you like me to start a new topic?

That was a reply for SWYL. I understand the separate parts of your argument and agree about the accountability. I have no issue with going as hard as you want against a Journo as long as it is not based on sex or includes threats of violence. 

11 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

No that is extremely distasteful and I find it exceedingly offensive.  Please show me where I have engaged in victim blaming.  Moderators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

41 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

I would suggest that this goes without saying.  Violence in these - and most - circumstances, is simply unacceptable, but that should not make a journo immune from rigorous criticism.

While I hate to say it, I agree with Nathan Buckley on much of the way footy is reported by journos theses days.  Too often, the journo becomes the news themselves. Let's not forget, much of what Caro writes and that neanderthal Robinson, is comment, dressed up as news.  In the case of Caro, when the veracity of her comment pieces is questioned her response is all too often, don't shoot the messenger.  She can't have it both ways.

 

But again, with all that said, she should not be the target of blokey banter, which Eddie considers is justified. 

 

27 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Really????? So all care no responsibility?  Yep, makes sense to me.  I will repeat, violence, threats of violence, behaviour from men that nurtures violent attitudes, should not be tolerated under any circumstances.  However, journos need to be held to far more account than they are at the present time.  The damage they can cause people, by what they write, can often be life changing for the person who is the target of the 'comment"

 

What or how Wilson writes is completely irrelevant. I would have thought someone who claims to do what you do would actually have an understanding of what victim blaming is, and this is it.

 

Just now, Chris said:

That was a reply for SWYL. I understand the separate parts of your argument and agree about the accountability. I have no issue with going as hard as you want against a Journo as long as it is not based on sex or includes threats of violence. 

I understand it was meant for SWYL, thanks Chris.  But unless I have missed something, I fail to see where he's condoned, provoked or supports violence against women.  Perhaps you could now give Stuie some counsel.

 

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

Not publicly Ricky, but I bet someone you know has abused a partner and no one knows about it. 

There is certainly an accepting culture in this country of disrespecting women, there is no argument for that. 

Really? Do you know anyone who genuinely thinks women deserve less respect than men?

1 minute ago, iv'a worn smith said:

I fail to see where he's condoned, provoked or supports violence against women.

 

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

In 2013 most of us here wanted to Smash Wilson to a pulp for what she wrote about Tanking

 

Starting to doubt your claims on what you say you do "i'va".

 

31 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Really????? So all care no responsibility?  Yep, makes sense to me.  I will repeat, violence, threats of violence, behaviour from men that nurtures violent attitudes, should not be tolerated under any circumstances.  However, journos need to be held to far more account than they are at the present time.  The damage they can cause people, by what they write, can often be life changing for the person who is the target of the 'comment"

 

 

Let's be clear- Eddie had his knickers in a knot because Caro wrote a comment  piece on succession of his presidency. Boo-f$&@ing hoo. 

Sooo damaging. Gimme a break

 

12 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Because it takes a while for the female contingent of the confected outrage group to gather their forces.....

What they are saying is that its OK to joke about violence unless its about a female..

Let's face it Eddie, Frawley and Brayshaw are not people's favourites and what they said is stupid but its the womens lobby that has become outraged. And not becuase they are advocating violence- even in a joking fashion - but because a female is the brunt of the joke. So where is all the outrage when they are advocating violence (albeit jokingly) against males?? Or is that supposed to be OK and 'blokey'??

 

8 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Because you will be fired from your job and subject to ridicule just the same......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3610502/Sydney-trader-Bell-Potter-Angus-Aitken-leaves-job-controversial-email-ANZ-CFO.html

Read this and you will see that your comment would still be unacceptable because a wonman is involved. This is how the people who are "professional offendees" operate. 

You find out a lot about posters in a thread like this.

 

3 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

I understand it was meant for SWYL, thanks Chris.  But unless I have missed something, I fail to see where he's condoned, provoked or supports violence against women.  Perhaps you could now give Stuie some counsel.

 

He has said numerous times that he would like Caro beaten to a pulp. He actually said that we (as in all of Demonland) would like Caro beaten to a pulp. 

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

C'mon we all wanted to knock her down at the time

good old iron pants Wilson...

 

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Go back to 2013 when the Heat was really on

she copped a lot and deserved it

You might need a new screen name after you've been banned, as well as a holiday.

5 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

Really? Do you know anyone who genuinely thinks women deserve less respect than men?

Not in my close circle of friends but that is in part by design. It is out there though, you don't need to look very far or dig very deep to find it as there is lots of it. Generally in places where lots of immature boys hang out. 

51 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

I completely disagree. 

The idea that there is some kind of spectrum with violence against women at one end and off-colour jokes at the other is absolute rubbish. They are two very different things and to argue that there is a relationship between them is to misdiagnose the problem and to unjustly accuse virtually all men of contributing to domestic violence.

I understand this is the view of many anti-domestic violence activists and is an idea put forward by the government's own advertising on the issue, but it just does not stand up to any scrutiny. Clearly, the act of actually committing violence against a woman requires a series of immensely warped internal behavioural mechanisms most often promulgated by the behaviour of close male role models in the perpetrator's life. Violence against women is not 'permitted' by off-colour jokes like McGuire's. How else do we explain the fact that all men have heard jokes like McGuire's yet only a small percentage of men engage in domestic violence? Clearly there are other factors at play apart from jokes/banter etc.     

The idea that it does misdiagnoses the problem and makes virtually every woman a victim of domestic violence and virtually every man a perpetrator. Not only is this completely unjust, but more importantly, means we are no closer to actually stopping violence against women.   

Realistically, the fact that Caro (who I greatly respect by the way) is a combative investigative journalist by choice means that she is more than fair game for crude jokes like McGuire's and Frawley's.  

Disagree. The physical act of hurting a woman begins with a mindset that threats, aggressive behaviour and 'jokes' about hurting or killing a woman are acceptable. Violence against women can be verbal.

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

C'mon we all wanted to knock her down at the time

good old iron pants Wilson...

 

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Go back to 2013 when the Heat was really on

she copped a lot and deserved it

You might need a new screen name after you've been banned, as well as a holiday.