Is Dustin Martin, Ben Cussins mark 2?

16 hours ago, ignition. said:

Where are all the "we should have selected Martin over Scully or Trengove" people now?

YES Martin is a gun on field but he has far too many off field misdemeanors, and quite frankly is a complete F***WITT.

I highly doubt he would have stuck around at the Dees this long anyway, and if he did he would be a poison towards the clubs culture, particularly off the back of the Maloney and Sylvia party days.

So, who was pick 4 in that draft? Did we at least interview him?

 

13 hours ago, stuie said:

Seen the figures for how many women have been murdered this year in Australia? It's pretty clearly a problem in itself whether your head is in the sand on purpose or not.

I don't see how you can infer that from what I said.

I was simply making the point that while violence against women is abhorrent, if it had been a man that was threatened by Martin with a chopstick, I'd hope it would also be worthy of our condemnation.

I don't think violent and intimidatory behaviour against anyone is acceptable.

Just now, mauriesy said:

I don't see how you can infer that from what I said.

I was simply making the point that while violence against women is abhorrent, if it had been a man that was threatened by Martin with a chopstick, I'd hope it would also be worthy of our condemnation.

I don't think violent and intimidatory behaviour against anyone is acceptable.

 

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

All violence is bad but don't try to diminish the violence against women problem by saying there is violence against men too

 

I'm going to let someone else answer this for me seeing people like to disagree or argue with me sometimes purely just because it's me.

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

don't try to diminish the violence against women problem by saying there is violence against men too.

I don't see why you can't decry both, and I don't see why one diminishes the other.

Let's be honest, if this were Jayden Hunt and not Dustin Martin he's already be cut from the list, Violence against a woman cannot be tolerated and i see a 12 month ban as the minimum punishment for this.

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

I'm going to let someone else answer this for me seeing people like to disagree or argue with me sometimes purely just because it's me.

Violence against women is indeed totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean however that violence against men is somehow acceptable by omission.

7 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

I don't see why you can't decry both, and I don't see why one diminishes the other.

Another example would be,

Poor people pay gst and it is hard to make ends meet.   Rich people pay gst too!

Even though rich people pay gst this diminishes the plight of the poor.

 

 

Edit:- Black people in the USA get shot by the police. White people get shot too. Yes but the problem is far greater with the black population, mentioning the white shootings diminishes the black shooting problem.

 

Edited December 8, 201510 yr by ManDee

5 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Violence against women is indeed totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean however that violence against men is somehow acceptable by omission.

No one has said it is acceptable, who is the one changing what others have said now?

Violence against women is a huge problem in it's own right and when you consider on average women are the victims of family violence 4 times more than men then maybe you can appreciate that it's an issue that deserves it's own attention and to add any kind of "yeah, but men..." devalues it.

Can't see Martin getting banned for home and away matches. 

Can see Martin getting banned for preseason matches.

30 minutes ago, ex52k2 said:

         Is Dustin Martin, Ben Cussins mark 2?

Yep it sure looks like it

Cannot believe the poor handling by AFL as usual all talk never any action. They are a complete joke !

This idiot should be banned for 12 months and make a real statement

16 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Another example would be,

Poor people pay gst and it is hard to make ends meet.   Rich people pay gst too!

Even though rich people pay gst this diminishes the plight of the poor.

It's a pretty bad example.

"Poor people get bashed. Rich people get bashed too".

Does that diminish the plight of the poor? Or does it mean we should have less pity or regard for rich people who get bashed?

I repeat ... I am not diminishing the importance of violence against women. It's terrible and abhorrent. What makes it worse than other violence is the power imbalance.

But we have to be careful that through omission we don't accept a sort of 'boys will be boys' way of thinking and that male violence is therefore not worthy of attention. As a male I don't like being bashed either.

Edited December 8, 201510 yr by mauriesy

20 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

I don't see why you can't decry both, and I don't see why one diminishes the other.

You can decry both, and we all should. But when the original issue is with a group that is disproportionately affected then to add other affected groups tends to diminish the original problem.  

The original issue in this case was with a drunken footballer who was approached by someone in a pub and became violent when asked to 'tone it down'. This is not a case of domestic violence or workplace harrassment against a 'group'. If a male had gone up to complain, I'd suggest Dustin Martin's aggressive reaction would probably have been the same.

I'd therefore hope that a male would have received the same public support in this scenario, and that Martin's behaviour would receive the same condemnation. I somehow doubt it though, because we generally tend to believe that males are 'protectors' and 'boys will be boys'.

7 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

It's a pretty bad example.

"Poor people get bashed. Rich people get bashed too".

Does that diminish the plight of the poor? Or does it mean we should have less pity or regard for rich people who get bashed?

I repeat ... I am not diminishing the importance of violence against women. It's terrible and abhorrent. What makes it worse than other violence is the power imbalance.

But we have to be careful that through omission we don't accept a sort of 'boys will be boys' way of thinking and that male violence is therefore not worthy of attention. As a male I don't like being bashed either.

No is accepting violence against men, no one. But at present, violence against women is a MUCH bigger issue, there's not even an argument there, and it needs it's own attention and action.

63 women have died from family violence in Australia this year so far. To put in any kind of "but" diminishes it as an issue in it's own right.

To complain about how hard you've got it and say you "don't like being bashed either" is part of the problem with the current mindset and is why there is so much discussion about this topic. Stop saying "but" or "what about men?" and realize that kind of reasoning is merely excusing what is happening.

23 minutes ago, stuie said:

No one has said it is acceptable, who is the one changing what others have said now?

I said by omission.

2 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

The original issue in this case was with a drunken footballer who was approached by someone in a pub and became violent when asked to 'tone it down'. This is not a case of domestic violence or workplace harrassment against a 'group'. If a male had gone up to complain, I'd suggest Dustin Martin's aggressive reaction would probably have been the same.

I'd therefore hope that a male would have received the same public support in this scenario, and that Martin's behaviour would receive the same condemnation. I somehow doubt it though, because we generally tend to believe that males are 'protectors' and 'boys will be boys'.

You just flat out don't get it mate.

11 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Collingwood's strong action against Heath Shaw and Alan Didak on the eve of the 2008 was said by many to be the making of the club as a premiership team just two years later. 

The Tigers might want to reflect on that when they complete their investigation of Martin's conduct and I'm sure the AFL will be an interested party as well given the number of women who attend the football.

You only need to look at the problems soccer is suffering as a result of the alienation of certain supporter groups to realise the potential danger to the game if the issue is treated in a less than serious fashion.

You could also use the example of Geelong and Steve Johnson, too.

2 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

I said by omission.

It's not omission at all, it's focus.

Again, woman are the victims in family violence 4 times more than men.

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

You just flat out don't get it mate.

Don't get what ... that all violence is bad?

Just now, mauriesy said:

Don't get what ... that all violence is bad?

That it's an issue in it's own right, and by trying to take away from that you are part of the problem with the attitude that needs to change.

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

Who would want to be in Egypt?? Place is a brothel.

Stuie gets plenty because he is the David Brent of Demonland.

BBO is the bully,I'm the bigot-don't get confused.

Well done on not deleting a criticism-a first.

Knock it off Biffen. You are very close to taking a holiday. There are a few others here too that might face the same fate. Last warning. Play nice or play somewhere else.

6 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

You could also use the example of Geelong and Steve Johnson, too.

Since Heath Shaw got 14 weeks suspension and a $20,000 fine for laying a $10 bet on the first goal kicker of a match, I'll be eagerly waiting to see how Richmond and the AFL equate that with a violent incident against a woman in a restaurant.

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

That it's an issue in it's own right

I agree, but it's not the issue in this case. The issue here is a drunken, violent, aggressive footballer, not the gender of the person who complained.

5 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Since Heath Shaw got 14 weeks suspension and a $20,000 fine for laying a $10 bet on the first goal kicker of a match, I'll be eagerly waiting to see how Richmond and the AFL equate that with a violent incident against a woman in a restaurant.

Was that penalty imposed by the club or by the AFL?