The one area we have improved on drastically under Roos is contested possession differentials, which is certainly an "effort based" statistic.

Having said that, our effort around the ground and in centre clearances was deplorable on Sunday.

In fact our centre clearance set ups are pretty questionable, and we often have no idea how to rove Gawn's hitouts.

The one area we have improved on drastically under Roos is contested possession differentials, which is certainly an "effort based" statistic.

Good point

Ya know what's introverted.
It's Paul Roos ..... I mean Ross Lyons game plan.

The one area we have improved on drastically under Roos is contested possession differentials, which is certainly an "effort based" statistic.

Having said that, our effort around the ground and in centre clearances was deplorable on Sunday.

In fact our centre clearance set ups are pretty questionable, and we often have no idea how to rove Gawn's hitouts.

Are you sure Gawn knows where he has to hit it?

Seems the midfield sets up and he then hits it too the only spot that has no Melb player.

I am far from certain who is at fault

Is it a supporters job to be supportive? (keeping in mind you can be supportive and criticize at the same time).

Going along to the game is supporting them. If they play well, we support them. If they seemingly don't try at all... people get angry.

The one area we have improved on drastically under Roos is contested possession differentials, which is certainly an "effort based" statistic.

Having said that, our effort around the ground and in centre clearances was deplorable on Sunday.

In fact our centre clearance set ups are pretty questionable, and we often have no idea how to rove Gawn's hitouts.

I was forgetting Goodwin no longer coached the midfield. Our set ups remind me of Brian Royal. Very worrying.

Ya know what's introverted.

It's Paul Roos ..... I mean Ross Lyons game plan.

You might be right.

I still think of you as a cross between Simple Robert Walls and Corey the facebook party kid.

And I still think of you as Terry Wallaces lap dog that licks it's own nuts.

Edited August 25, 201510 yr by Fork 'em

And I still think of you as Terry Wallaces lap dog that licks it's own nuts.

Not unhappy with that. Hyponatremia can do awful things to you.

We could've won 9 of our last 10. It wasn't likely but it was certainly possible (ok maybe 8 now that West Coast have proved to be the real deal.)

*Chokes on cornflakes*

Come on, man.

This group was never going to go 9 and 1 or 8 and 2.

God, I hope you're being facetious...

I hear introvert and think focused on the task at hand and not letting their team mates down, think Michael Jordan.

I hear extrovert and I think arrogant and self absorbed, think Bredan Fevola.

There is a place for both in a team but introverts are usually misunderstood. They are team players, they do mix with the team and lead very well, they just don't do so well outside of the team and aren't put in front of the media for these reasons.

In reality you need a mix of both in your team, swagger certainly has its place but can be as destructive, if not more so than the opposite, it is often the introverts who can balance the ship, they just don't get noticed doing it and don't seek the gratitude for doing so.

Jordan was the most extroverted basketball player in history. And I don't mean his Myers Briggs personality matrix BS - I mean the shots he took and the desire to not only be the best, but make sure the second best knew how far away they were from him.

The quote of his that I love the most is "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take"...

That guy played with extroverted, confident boldness and verve and that is what made him great.

i don't care anymore.

Jordan was the most extroverted basketball player in history. And I don't mean his Myers Briggs personality matrix BS - I mean the shots he took and the desire to not only be the best, but make sure the second best knew how far away they were from him.

The quote of his that I love the most is "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take"...

That guy played with extroverted, confident boldness and verve and that is what made him great.

He was also quite good at basketball.

He was also quite good at basketball.

It does help.

In short, are we actually the problem?

No.

Did Geelongs supporters all of a sudden "harden the [censored] up" in 2007? Or were they merely ancillary to the club, little more than season ticket holders of a professional sports team who drove their success internally?

Dud Hawthorns supporters all of a sudden drop off a cliff between 1996-2006?

These are professional athletes, their success or otherwise is dependent on them, their teammates and their coaches. We ride the wins and losses like a roller-coaster but at the end of the day we have little influence on the performance of the team.

*Chokes on cornflakes*

Come on, man.

This group was never going to go 9 and 1 or 8 and 2.

God, I hope you're being facetious...

There's no reason they couldn't have if they were mentally strong enough. If they brought consistency of effort they could have beaten Essendon, St. Kild, North, Dogs and Blues. The only "iffy" one was the Dogs considering it was at Etihad but we did beat them by 40 points earlier in the year.

It's all between the ears, unfortunately too many of our squad have little more than air there.

This is more it.

The MFC has to win back supporters now without talk

Just do it. Get rid of the mentally weak in 2 weeks time and build respect

That is the only way it will happen.

Exactly swyl - PJ said the club had lost the trust if it's supporters - well we're still hanging around like a battered spouse but our trust has yet to be regained.

Jordan was the most extroverted basketball player in history. And I don't mean his Myers Briggs personality matrix BS - I mean the shots he took and the desire to not only be the best, but make sure the second best knew how far away they were from him.

The quote of his that I love the most is "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take"...

That guy played with extroverted, confident boldness and verve and that is what made him great.

That is very true and goes to my point that introverted people, which he is, aren't necessarily that way on the court/field. An introvert in a place they are comfortable can do magnificent things. The key is that they need to be comfortable and confident in what they are doing or need to be doing.

Edited August 26, 201510 yr by Chris

No.

Did Geelongs supporters all of a sudden "harden the [censored] up" in 2007? Or were they merely ancillary to the club, little more than season ticket holders of a professional sports team who drove their success internally?

Dud Hawthorns supporters all of a sudden drop off a cliff between 1996-2006?

These are professional athletes, their success or otherwise is dependent on them, their teammates and their coaches. We ride the wins and losses like a roller-coaster but at the end of the day we have little influence on the performance of the team.

Did either of those clubs supporters even overtly have the defeatist attitude we display year in year out? That is where I think the attitude needs to change throughout the whole club. We (the whole club) are far to negative in our thoughts, we expect to do bad things. I agree our influence is small but if we (again the whole club) change the attitude to one where we demand success and do so without the bile we spit and jokes and expectation of losing then things may well change. Unfortunately this is far easier said than done.

The Geelong and Hawthorn examples aren't comparable. Both teams were playing in finals semi-regularly. We've been pitiful for almost a decade. That's when defeatism naturally sinks in. We are not to blame. It's the [censored] players and the coaches inability to empower the players to put in consistently.

Someone put it well on this forum "The players have improved, but the team hasn't". I agree. Our players seriously don't know how to work together, run together, shepherd. Look at the way we hot potato the ball around our forward line in hope someone will take the initiative to kick a goal. Look at Harmes dashing past his man inside 50 but delivering a shocking kick to no one in particular.

The only thing that could be wrong with our supporters is that we don't react when we play poorly because we're so used to it.

I don't agree on Stretch. He's quick but he was really costly towards the end of the game, he (and Harmes) can't handle pressure unlike Brayshaw.

At least we can say that we've improved a bit by each year under Roos. Our current form doesn't worry me as much as the concept of us crashing to the bottom again in a year or two. And I think it's possible when you look at the fragility displayed in our last 2 games. And you just never know if other teams will find ways to get better and we'll stay out of the 8 for several more years

We've been pitiful for almost a decade. That's when defeatism naturally sinks in. We are not to blame. It's the [censored] players and the coaches inability to empower the players to put in consistently.

Absolute and utter rubbish.

We vote boards in and out. We had faith in your Garry Lyon's to run a coach selection process. We applauded bruise-free footy in the 2000s because it was good to watch. We couldn't see how flakey it was.

I used to laugh at other supporters. Since my introduction to ology in 2002/3, and sitting listening to most MFC supporters yell "kick it long", I have been shaking my head at Melbourne supporters for far far longer than Paul Roos has.

A bunch of introverted (because ego is a dirty word), pessimistic, white-collar, liberal voting, football naive bunch of nervous nellies....epitomised by the Paul Roos saga.

I am not having a go at you P-man.

I have read numerous comments about Petracca this year.

He has not played a single game yet at senior level be that VFL or AFL.

The signs look good but there is not guarantee he will be a star player.

Can we just wait and see before proclaiming him the greatest thing since slice bread.

Something something Lucas Cook, something something Jordan Gysberts.

I hope that wasn't too negative.....

Did either of those clubs supporters even overtly have the defeatist attitude we display year in year out? That is where I think the attitude needs to change throughout the whole club. We (the whole club) are far to negative in our thoughts, we expect to do bad things. I agree our influence is small but if we (again the whole club) change the attitude to one where we demand success and do so without the bile we spit and jokes and expectation of losing then things may well change. Unfortunately this is far easier said than done.

[censored] me, if we can't joke about losing, every single supporter of this club would've necked themselves circa 1981.

I was forgetting Goodwin no longer coached the midfield. Our set ups remind me of Brian Royal. Very worrying.

I think you forget how deplorable we were under Royal.

I swear to god, one centre bounce had the group:

Spencer

McKenzie

Nicholson

Bail

Ergh. Just thinking about it gives me nightmares.

(I'm not kidding. It was round 22, 2012.)