On 19/08/2014 at 05:20, JV7 said:

All I'm saying is I'd rather keep watts then go to the draft with a mid range 2nd round pick, god knows what will get with that. The kids 23, played in one of the worst sides in the history of the game over his career. His 3 or 4 years off his prime football..

If it takes another 3 or 4 years JV7 I can guarantee you he will not be at the MFC when he reaches his best.

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:16, Ouch! said:

I know it's about Watts, my issue is the constant 'interest' in Watts

That there is a perception amongst so many people that this one player seems to be the cause of the problems we are currently experiencing is the point I am making.

Was Watts any better or worse than perhaps a dozen or so players out there on the weekend? if not ... why are we creating yet another thread about him.

show me where it states Jack Watts is the sole cause of our malaise?? Where

I created the thread to in fact concentrate on his worth and future at the MFC. To allow other Demonlanders to express via a poll what they feel is the better discourse.

Again if you cant isolate and critique one player then youd have a hard job in list management Id guess.

You dont think the club dont do EXACTLY this ?

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:25, old dee said:

If it takes another 3 or 4 years JV7 I can guarantee you he will not be at the MFC when he reaches his best.

Obviously if he is producing what he is now in 12-18 months time it's a different story, if he has gradual improvement over the next 2-3 years and by the time his 25-26 when most footballers start playing there best footy. What do people expect roos to come in and wave a magic wand and in one pre season watts is averaging 25 touches 10 marks and 2 goals a game.

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:29, JV7 said:

Obviously if he is producing what he is now in 12-18 months time it's a different story, if he has gradual improvement over the next 2-3 years and by the time his 25-26 when most footballers start playing there best footy. What do people expect roos to come in and wave a magic wand and in one pre season watts is averaging 25 touches 10 marks and 2 goals a game.

No

But IMO he is doing what he has always done.

I see no improvement over the Neeld years.

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:29, beelzebub said:

show me where it states Jack Watts is the sole cause of our malaise?? Where

I created the thread to in fact concentrate on his worth and future at the MFC. To allow other Demonlanders to express via a poll what they feel is the better discourse.

Again if you cant isolate and critique one player then youd have a hard job in list management Id guess.

You dont think the club dont do EXACTLY this ?

*sigh*

I didn't say you SAID or WROTE anything. But I fail to see a thread with a poll for any other player that has come out since the weekends game assessing that players worth on the trade table or to our team.

I agree that the club do this for every single player, but what I fail to see is anything created FOR any other player except for Watts, although to be fair I don't go into the Draft and Trading section, so perhaps the interest by Demonland members is driving this thread.

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:46, Ouch! said:

*sigh*

I didn't say you SAID or WROTE anything. But I fail to see a thread with a poll for any other player that has come out since the weekends game assessing that players worth on the trade table or to our team.

I agree that the club do this for every single player, but what I fail to see is anything created FOR any other player except for Watts, although to be fair I don't go into the Draft and Trading section, so perhaps the interest by Demonland members is driving this thread.

It may have something to do with the fact he was a No.1 pick!

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:51, old dee said:

It may have something to do with the fact he was a No.1 pick!

How does that impact his worth to us or to other teams?

Clubs have had five or six years to assess his performances... ? Do you really think that list management teams will focus on where he was drafted when assessing his worth?

Again, I am not fussed as to whether our list management team goes either way, but what is there to gain by focusing on Watts over someone like Dawes who had yet another shocking game this week...

  On 19/08/2014 at 05:51, old dee said:

It may have something to do with the fact he was a No.1 pick!

that and hed garner the most interest...and price.

  On 19/08/2014 at 00:21, old dee said:

Interesting that only 15% think he is a definite keep

It would be more but the Poll refused my vote.

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:10, ManDee said:

It would be more but the Poll refused my vote.

why ? answer all q's ??

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:02, Ouch! said:

How does that impact his worth to us or to other teams?

Clubs have had five or six years to assess his performances... ? Do you really think that list management teams will focus on where he was drafted when assessing his worth?

Again, I am not fussed as to whether our list management team goes either way, but what is there to gain by focusing on Watts over someone like Dawes who had yet another shocking game this week...

Ouch I was suggesting the reason he gets a thread about him is because he was a No.1 selection. if you are no. 86 the expectation is low and so is the response if that player does not cut the mustard.

No other reason

How many other players OUCH do you think from MFC might be on anyones shopping list ??...Be a short list

The reason he gets a thread unlike many others is that few players of recent times have polarised this club like Jack.

Ouch - you are taking "leave Jack alone!" to its extreme.

He (currently) has trade value and he is unarguably our most high profile player.

By all means create a "Dan Nicholson - Keep or Trade?" thread, but I'm not sure you'll be flooded with reseponses.

hey, new to demonland, but hear me out, Jack had a team high 93% DE and equal 2nd best 4 tackles, The 2 goals we got in the 1st q were from jack, the first being his decision to move the ball through the corridor to jonesy , the 2nd goal trough hard work. I know it looks lazy when he loiters around packs, but that's what the coaches are asking him to do (why else would he do it time and time again!) it is the job of our inside mids to do the hard work to get the ball to jack so he can make the right decision (which he usually does). I was at the game on sunday and watched him closely, 90% of the time he leads to dangerous positions only to watch his team mates butcher the ball or go sideways, backwards or any other way but forwards. I know it sounds like im defending watts, but I just don't think he is part of the problem. We have way to many players whose first option is to bang it up forward ala vince and viney witout even a look to see who they are kicking it to. IMO watts best posie is on the wing similar to vince but with more accuracy. A bit of a ramble I know, but we have way more players who are twice as bad as watts, and they get away scott free.

Everyone has a first post greengrass

Welcome aboard

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:23, greengrass said:

hey, new to demonland, but hear me out, Jack had a team high 93% DE and equal 2nd best 4 tackles, The 2 goals we got in the 1st q were from jack, the first being his decision to move the ball through the corridor to jonesy , the 2nd goal trough hard work. I know it looks lazy when he loiters around packs, but that's what the coaches are asking him to do (why else would he do it time and time again!) it is the job of our inside mids to do the hard work to get the ball to jack so he can make the right decision (which he usually does). I was at the game on sunday and watched him closely, 90% of the time he leads to dangerous positions only to watch his team mates butcher the ball or go sideways, backwards or any other way but forwards. I know it sounds like im defending watts, but I just don't think he is part of the problem. We have way to many players whose first option is to bang it up forward ala vince and viney witout even a look to see who they are kicking it to. IMO watts best posie is on the wing similar to vince but with more accuracy. A bit of a ramble I know, but we have way more players who are twice as bad as watts, and they get away scott free.

Some good points.

those that butcher it worse will hopefully be moved on, or educated if able.

No one , I would suspect actually denies the ability of Jack in some situations. His effort to create a goal out of nothing in the 3rd I think was brilliant and had he more confidence in his body he might well have pulled it off. reality is its few and far between.

I keep asking myself , why dont ppl kick it to Jack ? he is the best link thinker on the team imho, which even more confounds the situation.

But you can have all the smarts going and if no one wants to include you or if you cant impose on the game then it will all come to nought.

This poll is about where this board ( DL ) sees Jack, today and tomorrow. Ultimately its only what the club thinks that will matter.

welcome to the nut house

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-08-17/watts-shows-his-class

This video highlights Watts' entire career in the first 15 seconds.

Absolutely abysmal attempt to mark. Didn't put himself between Mumford and the ball at all, neither did he have the skill to launch over Mummy for the mark. All that said the ball still got to his hands and he still couldn't mark it. More than likely to his eyes off the ball when Mumford comes across him.

Luckily when the ball hits the deck Jamar cleans it up and wins the hard ball. Watts then evades Patton well and kicks a beautiful snap. A play that not everyone in our team can make.

And there in lies the problem. Whilst he'll always be good at kicking the nice snap goal he's been on the list for 6 years and hasn't shown any improvement with doing physical things like standing under a high ball with a ruckman bearing down and taking the mark.

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:15, beelzebub said:

How many other players OUCH do you think from MFC might be on anyones shopping list ??...Be a short list

The reason he gets a thread unlike many others is that few players of recent times have polarised this club like Jack.

This is just a very quick list, but why wouldnt Spencer, Gawn, Fitzy, Garland, Frawley, Kent, Trengove, Toumpas, Grimes and McKenzie be of some interest to other clubs as well as Watts. Thats just a quick list based on players that have been on our list for more than a season. Clubs might trade players to improve their depth, doesn't necessarily have to be a starting 18 player. Obviously Viney,Jones, Salem and Tyson have more value on the trade table, but might be seen as untouchables.

I know that Watts polarises people's views, but singling him out just seems to fuel the polarisation furthe.

OD, I understand the logic, I also understand that people are disappointed with him and I understand that our expectations of him as a player as a result can be that we are disappointed with him, but I still don't really see how his worth to other clubs as a trade hinges on his draft position. That was more the point I was trying to make.

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:22, P-man said:

Ouch - you are taking "leave Jack alone!" to its extreme.

He (currently) has trade value and he is unarguably our most high profile player.

By all means create a "Dan Nicholson - Keep or Trade?" thread, but I'm not sure you'll be flooded with reseponses.

perhaps thats true.

He has trade value I don't deny that. But it seems as though every time the team is dismal, Demonland rolls out another post about Watts.

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:13, beelzebub said:

why ? answer all q's ??

I hate it when you're right and I'm a dill.

I presumed, yes I know, I must be getting dull.

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:23, greengrass said:

hey, new to demonland, but hear me out, Jack had a team high 93% DE and equal 2nd best 4 tackles, The 2 goals we got in the 1st q were from jack, the first being his decision to move the ball through the corridor to jonesy , the 2nd goal trough hard work. I know it looks lazy when he loiters around packs, but that's what the coaches are asking him to do (why else would he do it time and time again!) it is the job of our inside mids to do the hard work to get the ball to jack so he can make the right decision (which he usually does). I was at the game on sunday and watched him closely, 90% of the time he leads to dangerous positions only to watch his team mates butcher the ball or go sideways, backwards or any other way but forwards. I know it sounds like im defending watts, but I just don't think he is part of the problem. We have way to many players whose first option is to bang it up forward ala vince and viney witout even a look to see who they are kicking it to. IMO watts best posie is on the wing similar to vince but with more accuracy. A bit of a ramble I know, but we have way more players who are twice as bad as watts, and they get away scott free.

Great post mate, can't argue your points.

I'm just greedy and want more from him that's all. Also, I just want him to get some intent with his tackling. Couple times against the hawkers I think it was Smith who just ran through him which was painful watching.

Don't see the point in trading him and we wouldn't get anything of merit but there is no way in the world that I am even close to being satisfied of some of his performances/efforts this year.

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:23, greengrass said:

hey, new to demonland, but hear me out, Jack had a team high 93% DE and equal 2nd best 4 tackles, The 2 goals we got in the 1st q were from jack, the first being his decision to move the ball through the corridor to jonesy , the 2nd goal trough hard work. I know it looks lazy when he loiters around packs, but that's what the coaches are asking him to do (why else would he do it time and time again!) it is the job of our inside mids to do the hard work to get the ball to jack so he can make the right decision (which he usually does). I was at the game on sunday and watched him closely, 90% of the time he leads to dangerous positions only to watch his team mates butcher the ball or go sideways, backwards or any other way but forwards. I know it sounds like im defending watts, but I just don't think he is part of the problem. We have way to many players whose first option is to bang it up forward ala vince and viney witout even a look to see who they are kicking it to. IMO watts best posie is on the wing similar to vince but with more accuracy. A bit of a ramble I know, but we have way more players who are twice as bad as watts, and they get away scott free.

Very good first post GG.

And I agree with you.

thanx for the welcome, Im sort of defending him, but I will be [censored] of if we trade him, and he flourishes with another team off our hardwork in training him and we are left with some dud who takes another 4-5 years to come good. I think he will cop a real flogging come preseason I hope!

on a totally side note, I was watching the pre game drills and tom McDonald doing 40 - 50m pinpoint accuracy bullet passes, yet in match time he looks like he really struggles with his kicking?

  On 19/08/2014 at 06:23, greengrass said:

hey, new to demonland, but hear me out, Jack had a team high 93% DE and equal 2nd best 4 tackles, The 2 goals we got in the 1st q were from jack, the first being his decision to move the ball through the corridor to jonesy , the 2nd goal trough hard work. I know it looks lazy when he loiters around packs, but that's what the coaches are asking him to do (why else would he do it time and time again!) it is the job of our inside mids to do the hard work to get the ball to jack so he can make the right decision (which he usually does). I was at the game on sunday and watched him closely, 90% of the time he leads to dangerous positions only to watch his team mates butcher the ball or go sideways, backwards or any other way but forwards. I know it sounds like im defending watts, but I just don't think he is part of the problem. We have way to many players whose first option is to bang it up forward ala vince and viney witout even a look to see who they are kicking it to. IMO watts best posie is on the wing similar to vince but with more accuracy. A bit of a ramble I know, but we have way more players who are twice as bad as watts, and they get away scott free.

Welcome to D'Land. Some good points alot of which I agree with, but none of which alleviate my continuing frustrations with him that I don't see improving to any significant degree and which are all but nullifying his worth on the field.