We need to draft and trade for players who can actually kick a football and not just athletes.

So many of our list cannot kick!!

I'm F-----g confused????? You say we need to draft for players who can kick, yet you absolutely BAG Salem, Toumpas, etc. you have bagged Jordie no end, yet you now want him to play???????

Man, make up your mind!

Sorry, Salems a dud, why didn't we pick freeman, blah blah is that better?

No not beter at all but its too early to call him a Gun dont you think given he hasnt played a game

I'm F-----g confused????? You say we need to draft for players who can kick, yet you absolutely BAG Salem, Toumpas, etc. you have bagged Jordie no end, yet you now want him to play???????

Man, make up your mind!

excuse me? When have i mentioned Salem or Jimmy's kicking?

How many guys in our senior team cannot hit a target right now....

No not beter at all but its too early to call him a Gun dont you think given he hasnt played a game

Well if you take the time to watch the kids play, you can get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses and i'd say salem is the most complete player we have drafted in the last 8 years.

excuse me? When have i mentioned Salem or Jimmy's kicking?

How many guys in our senior team cannot hit a target right now....

You have consistently bagged every young kid in our squad. You confuse everyone with your arguments. You sound like the kid at the back of the class who keeps getting in trouble just so he can be noticed. Do you really want me or anyone else to go through your posts of late and show you?

excuse me? When have i mentioned Salem or Jimmy's kicking?

How many guys in our senior team cannot hit a target right now....

Wait, we have players who can hit targets?

You have consistently bagged every young kid in our squad. You confuse everyone with your arguments. You sound like the kid at the back of the class who keeps getting in trouble just so he can be noticed. Do you really want me or anyone else to go through your posts of late and show you?

Get your hand off it mate.

Sambo is a term i haven't heard since Menzies was in charge. Take a look in the mirror.

I have work to attend to.

Well if you take the time to watch the kids play, you can get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses and i'd say salem is the most complete player we have drafted in the last 8 years.

Yes and of course the clubs' early assessments have always been correct and they became "GUNS"

We pay the recruiters to make the assessments and they should be judged on the outcomes

'

Yes and of course the clubs' early assessments have always been correct and they became "GUNS"

We pay the recruiters to make the assessments and they should be judged on the outcomes

'

and they most certainly are judged on the outcomes, look at the Jimmy Toumpas thread and see how much they're being judged.

doesn't mean supporters can't like or dislike what they see in young players and talk about that on an open forum.

Edited April 7, 201411 yr by Sassy

Did GWS and GC have the luxury of allowing all those teenagers to develop?

This game is so complex, sometimes you just can't look at a successful club and say "do that like them".

I agree with your second statement - I was responding to the poster who suggested that we follow the Hawks who don't develop. No two teams have the same dynamic.

As to your first comment, look at your second comment and apply the same logic. Firstly it has taken a while for GC to come good and GWS aren't far behind. They have a prodigious amount of young talent at their disposal and have had to take a different approach because of the amount of kids they have. I do wonder as to the differences in rearing 80% young potential stars mixed with a few more experienced players ( in GC's case - one absolute superstar) as opposed to our younger talent that has been taken into a crap organisation, bereft of leadership and until recently full of lazy older players who hardly set a shining example.

Losing Scully was not our doing and it was a good selection, so his market value when he jumped ship dictates. Nor was it our fault we were selecting at 12 in 2010 and not at 5 in an already compromised draft. Getting access to the 24th best player of his vintage is hardly fair for a team finishing 13th. Many mistakes, some poor decision making but the club has been certainly unlucky in many ways and a victime of poor timing.

We caused our own poor timing.

Get your hand off it mate.

Sambo is a term i haven't heard since Menzies was in charge. Take a look in the mirror.

I have work to attend to.

That would be right, resort to a personal attack and then claim you have work to do. Typical WYL. See ya Bud.

I get what you're doing with the blanks, but Thompson in 2000 was a great pick at 16, and McLean and Sylvia - still going - were certainly worth their draft standing in the 2003 trash pit. There's no question though that some of the picks were disgusting reaches (Molan, Cook, Gysberts), while there's room for varying levels of debate on the failings of drafting development on those we took around where they were supposed to go (Morton, Bate, Blease).

I was thinking more about the club getting worth out of its early picks.

Thompson was an excellent pick but fate has judged that poorly aswell...

McLean and Sylvia are now flailing at other clubs, and yes we had 3 and 5 in the wrong year but there is a pattern - we have been picked poorly with early picks for a generation.

Development is an unkown unknown as Donal Rumsfeld used to say...

I know a lot of other clubs look down on our development and with good reason but I just don't think we have picked well (or had a great deal of luck) from 1999 to 2004 and again from 2007 to 2011.

You just can't have failed year after failed year.

That would be right, resort to a personal attack and then claim you have work to do. Typical WYL. See ya Bud.

Right back at ya. You can stay away Thankyou.

Don't go with the development line sorry. We're onto out third or fourth recent coaching group ( cant remember exactly) and I don't believe they were all poor.

Our playing group have burnt coaches like an arsonist on speed.

You simply can't make strawberry jam out of ....................................

It's more than 4 failed drafts...

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) -

2001 (ND9) -

2002 (ND14, 15) -

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) -

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn

2005 (ND12) - Jones

2006 (ND12) - Frawley

2007 (ND4, 14, 21) - Grimes

2008 (ND1, 17, 19) - Watts

2009 (ND1, 2, 11, 18) - Trengove

2010 (ND12) -

2011 (ND12) -

2012 (ND4) - Toumpas

*Salary cap penalty.

If you make this many mistakes with early picks, you are going to have a bad time.

I've filled in the blanks below and its a damming list. In red are players taken around our failed pick and all those players (13 of them) are keys players in there respective teams and shows what we are missing.

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) – SCOTT THOMPSON

2001 (ND9) – LUKE MOLAN (8 BARTEL)

2002 (ND14, 15) – DANIEL BELL, NICK SMITH (12 SCHULZ)

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) – SYLVIA, MCLEAN, (19 MUNDY)

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn – BATE (14 MONFRIES)

2005 (ND12) - Jones

2006 (ND12) - Frawley

2007 (ND4, 14, 21) – Grimes – MORTON, MARIC (3 MASTEN, 19 WARD)

2008 (ND1, 17, 19) – Watts BLEASE STRAUSS ( 18 SHUEY, 23 ZAHARAKIS)

2009 (ND1, 2, 11, 18) – Trengove, SCULLY GYSBERTS, TAPSCOTT ( 3 MARTIN, 13 TALIA, 20 FYFE)

2010 (ND12) – COOK ( 11, LYNCH)

2011 (ND12) – CLARKE (11-TOBY GREEN)

2012 (ND4) - Toumpas

Its pointless including players taken before our picks. A better exercise would be to include the best plater taken within 5 picks our our top 10 picks and within 10 of all other picks as a guide to the the quality of the drafting. Hindsight can be cruel mistress. In 2003 for example, David Mundy was predominantly a key or third tall back with good kicking ability. He was never in the frame for a top 5 pick on the basis of need. In reality Brent Stanton was the only possibly realistic better pick that could have been made that year. And we didnt have a pick 21 that year.

I've filled in the blanks below and its a damming list. In red are players taken around our failed pick and all those players (13 of them) are keys players in there respective teams and shows what we are missing.

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) – SCOTT THOMPSON

2001 (ND9) – LUKE MOLAN (8 BARTEL) - bartel went the pick BEFORE Molan - pick 10 -20 after Molan - only 3 really made it - Reilly, DalSanto and Kelly

2002 (ND14, 15) – DANIEL BELL, NICK SMITH (12 SCHULZ) - again Schulz went BEFORE out picks - excluding Father/son - after our picks -down to number 80 about 8 players had any sort of career - bad draft.

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) – SYLVIA, MCLEAN, (19 MUNDY) - after our picks 3 players of any note to pick 30

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn – BATE (14 MONFRIES) - after our pick only 3 players of any note taken to pick 30

Ill stop now ! You can look in the rear vision mirror as much as you like but it shows you how few players actually make it and what a turkey shoot it is - instead of looking at who came after you should at they players were rated at draft time - the real mistakes IMO - Strauss, Gysberts, Cook.

Don't go with the development line sorry. We're onto out third or fourth recent coaching group ( cant remember exactly) and I don't believe they were all poor.

Our playing group have burnt coaches like an arsonist on speed.

You simply can't make strawberry jam out of ....................................

I hear what you're saying but there are too many players that haven't developed to be coincidence.

Trengove would have been in every teams top 3 picks in his year. Morton also, some clubs had him number 1. You can go on.

It's not all development and it's not all drafting, it's got to be a combination of both. I think our major opportunity was in 2008 when we clearly identified the wrong type of player. We needed genuine mids and instead went for talented flankers. We could have had Shuey, Redden (or Beams), Sloane and Rockliff (although he was not seen as a genuine mid). Instead we went for skilled kicking flankers in Blease, Strauss, Bennell and Jetta.

That's the draft that makes me cry.

I hear what you're saying but there are too many players that haven't developed to be coincidence.

Trengove would have been in every teams top 3 picks in his year. Morton also, some clubs had him number 1. You can go on.

It's not all development and it's not all drafting, it's got to be a combination of both. I think our major opportunity was in 2008 when we clearly identified the wrong type of player. We needed genuine mids and instead went for talented flankers. We could have had Shuey, Redden (or Beams), Sloane and Rockliff (although he was not seen as a genuine mid). Instead we went for skilled kicking flankers in Blease, Strauss, Bennell and Jetta.

That's the draft that makes me cry.

Its worth noting none of the Mortons developed. Mitch was as highly rated as Cale when he started out and Jarryd went nowhere. Their dad was a problematic figure from all reports.

That draft did kill us. We would have taken Redden at 35.

Its worth noting none of the Mortons developed. Mitch was as highly rated as Cale when he started out and Jarryd went nowhere. Their dad was a problematic figure from all reports.

That draft did kill us. We would have taken Redden at 35.

I've met his Dad and I know someone who has known him for some time. He's a ripping bloke, not the problem as far as I could tell.

Cale thought he was the smartest bloke in the room, never listened to the coaches, probably needed to go to somewhere like the Swans, Hawks or Cats to have the arrogance beaten out of him.

I hear what you're saying but there are too many players that haven't developed to be coincidence.

This is what has me completely stumped. Over the last 10 years who has risen above being a "B" grader - have we got every draft single draft pick wrong ???

I agree with you - maybe we have picked the wrong players but it must be the club they have come into ( culturally) and how we have educated and developed them in equal measure.

Cale thought he was the smartest bloke in the room, never listened to the coaches, probably needed to go to somewhere like the Swans, Hawks or Cats to have the arrogance beaten out of him.

Tells you something about our organisation - Hawks/Swans/Cats have coaches that would have done that - demanded and instilled the attitude of excelling. But not only the coaches. Young players need a good core of older players who are talented on the field, that are disciplined off the field and on the training track - someone to emulate. They need good strong leaders - we have been bereft in this area.

Edited April 8, 201411 yr by nutbean

This is what has me completely stumped. Over the last 10 years who has risen above being a "B" grader - have we got every draft single draft pick wrong ???

I agree with you - maybe we have picked the wrong players but it must be the club they have come into ( culturally) and how we have educated and developed them in equal measure.

But then if we picked the wrong players, other clubs were fully intending to pick the same 'wrong' players around our picks.

We can't have been so unlucky to steal every dud from under the noses of the other clubs could we?

But then if we picked the wrong players, other clubs were fully intending to pick the same 'wrong' players around our picks.

We can't have been so unlucky to steal every dud from under the noses of the other clubs could we?

I am not convinced that they have all been wrong - I think we have taken young talent and put them into our cesspool of a club and just expected them to thrive.