Taylor Adams

[stuie 7,374]

I wouldn't put Fitz or Gawn in a good enough yet and I'm still not sold on Dawes. I understand the point on mids but a top key position player would be hard to turn down if he was available. Remember Wallace at Richmond recruited for mids and passed up Franklin, the lesson is best available.

Boyd looks likely to be fantastic, but honestly where do we find room for Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Boyd who would all be easily best 22.

The fact is, this year we have the worst inside 50s since the stat started being recorded. We have a good enough forward line, but we have THE worst midfield in the league by a mile.

[rjay 25,093]

Boyd looks likely to be fantastic, but honestly where do we find room for Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Boyd who would all be easily best 22.

The fact is, this year we have the worst inside 50s since the stat started being recorded. We have a good enough forward line, but we have THE worst midfield in the league by a mile.

Personal opinion 'stuie', but I would play Clark in the ruck. I think he adds another player to our midfield and will get a lot of his own ball, something that Jamar and Spencer don't do. Boyd does run through the ruck and would be the relief for Clark, as we've seen with Grundy this year if you are good enough all this development talk for young talls doesn't count. They can come in and make an immediate impact.

Clark is probably our next best mid anyway, if his foot is right to go then he is right to play any position on the ground. I don't go with the idea of protecting him as a forward, there's no place to hide these days in AFL footy.

Of course if we don't get PP1 it's another argument, I would still look at Clark in the ruck though for the reasons above. I just think we are one man down if we take Jamar or Spencer in. Gawn I think has more upside but is still a bit off yet and needs an injury free run this preseason.

[stuie 7,374]

Personal opinion 'stuie', but I would play Clark in the ruck. I think he adds another player to our midfield and will get a lot of his own ball, something that Jamar and Spencer don't do. Boyd does run through the ruck and would be the relief for Clark, as we've seen with Grundy this year if you are good enough all this development talk for young talls doesn't count. They can come in and make an immediate impact.

Clark is probably our next best mid anyway, if his foot is right to go then he is right to play any position on the ground. I don't go with the idea of protecting him as a forward, there's no place to hide these days in AFL footy.

Of course if we don't get PP1 it's another argument, I would still look at Clark in the ruck though for the reasons above. I just think we are one man down if we take Jamar or Spencer in. Gawn I think has more upside but is still a bit off yet and needs an injury free run this preseason.

I agree with you about Clark to a point. There's a few problems I see though:

-Clark doesn't want to be a ruckman, it's part of the reason he left Brisbane

-When he's been fit he's been sensational as a forward

-His foot seems more likely to be injured in the ruck than the forward line

You're right about the PP though, I'd definitely think about Boyd a bit more should we have picks 1 and 3. My feeling though is if we get a PP it will be a second round one or even a mini draft type of pick that we have to trade.

Gawn is definitely the future for us ruck wise, and I'd like us to rookie a project ruckman too.

Edited September 4, 2013 by stuie

[Fat Tony 5,272]

Personal opinion 'stuie', but I would play Clark in the ruck. I think he adds another player to our midfield and will get a lot of his own ball, something that Jamar and Spencer don't do. Boyd does run through the ruck and would be the relief for Clark, as we've seen with Grundy this year if you are good enough all this development talk for young talls doesn't count. They can come in and make an immediate impact.

Clark is probably our next best mid anyway, if his foot is right to go then he is right to play any position on the ground. I don't go with the idea of protecting him as a forward, there's no place to hide these days in AFL footy.

Of course if we don't get PP1 it's another argument, I would still look at Clark in the ruck though for the reasons above. I just think we are one man down if we take Jamar or Spencer in. Gawn I think has more upside but is still a bit off yet and needs an injury free run this preseason.

If we get PP1 we should look to trade it (and rights to Boyd) only if we can garner a fair deal. Otherwise we must go best available and find other ways to build a midfield.

[rjay 25,093]

I agree with you about Clark to a point. There's a few problems I see though:

-Clark didn't want to ruck, it's part of the reason he left Brisbane

-When he's been fit he's been sensational as a forward

-His foot seems more likely to be injured in the ruck than the forward line

You're right about the PP though, I'd definitely think about Boyd a bit more should we have picks 1 and 3. My feeling though is if we get a PP it will be a second round one or even a mini draft type of pick that we have to trade.

Gawn is definitely the future for us ruck wise, and I'd look us to rookie a project ruckman too.

I'm not sure he didn't want to ruck but it was more they didn't seem to have him settled in a position. He had a great year when he was left to ruck but with Leuenberger on the scene he was moved around. In the forward line everything revolved around Brown.

He has been sensational as a forward but I think he would play a role like Ottens for us in the ruck and I think Clark would add to our midfield.

As for the foot, having no medical quals but from what I understand is he will be back with no more risk of further injury than any other player.

I'd look at a rookie ruck man too, pity we didn't get Hannath last year.

[Adam The God 30,421]

Good enough tall forwards: Clark, Dawes, Fitzpatrick, Hogan, Gawn

Good enough mids: Jones, Viney

MFC haven't had a positive differential in inside 50s since 2006.

Maybe it's just me, but I think we need midfielders more than tall forwards, no matter how good they POSSIBLY will be.

Gawn is a liability when the ball hits the deck. Not good enough at the moment.

[rjay 25,093]

Gawn is a liability when the ball hits the deck. Not good enough at the moment.

He's not that bad, he's certainly streets ahead of Jamar and Spencer in this area of his game. He just does't have the tank to keep at it.

[Ouch! 2,266]

So we don't want the player seen as once in a generation FF? not so sure about that.

Just to be clear,

Watts was touted as the great white hope, as have Hawkins, Joe Daniher, Hogan, and Paton @ GWS?

How many once in a generation FFs are there in a generation? Remember Roughead, Franklin, Reiwoldt (x2), Cameron and several others exist in this generation too.

All of these players are good, but I think once they step up from under 18s to AFL they come back to the pack somewhat. Possibly cos they end up on playing on once in a generation FBs

Back onto Adams though.... if we get pick 1 or 3... do people really want to spend that on Adams? is he that good? Caddy hasn't been anywhere near the 'star' player he was seen as becoming since going to Geelong. I'd be more interested in shaking loose Gaff from WCE for a slightly lower pick, or if we are putting pick 1 or 3 on the table, going hard Dangerfield/Sloane etc and offer Pick 1 and Blease/McKenzie/Tapscott. Do a similar process with Brisbane to get Rockliff or Rich, Go to the dogs for Griffen etc

If we are putting big picks on the table then go big, and shake loose someone almost considered untouchable. We only get one chance to do something big with Roos coming on as coach this year with the PP (which I believe we will get) We have an opportunity to sell a vision and Roos will be crucial in selling this to prospective players...., we have the tools at our disposal to see it happen if we are prepared to be daring enough to seize on it.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Oucher

[rjay 25,093]

Just to be clear,

Watts was touted as the great white hope, as have Hawkins, Joe Daniher, Hogan, and Paton @ GWS?

How many once in a generation FFs are there in a generation? Remember Roughead, Franklin, Reiwoldt (x2), Cameron and several others exist in this generation too.

All of these players are good, but I think once they step up from under 18s to AFL they come back to the pack somewhat. Possibly cos they end up on playing on once in a generation FBs

Back onto Adams though.... if we get pick 1 or 3... do people really want to spend that on Adams? is he that good? Caddy hasn't been anywhere near the 'star' player he was seen as becoming since going to Geelong. I'd be more interested in shaking loose Gaff from WCE for a slightly lower pick, or if we are putting pick 1 or 3 on the table, going hard Dangerfield/Sloane etc and offer Pick 1 and Blease/McKenzie/Tapscott. Do a similar process with Brisbane to get Rockliff or Rich, Go to the dogs for Griffen etc

If we are putting big picks on the table then go big, and shake loose someone almost considered untouchable. We only get one chance to do something big with Roos coming on as coach this year with the PP (which I believe we will get) We have an opportunity to sell a vision and Roos will be crucial in selling this to prospective players...., we have the tools at our disposal to see it happen if we are prepared to be daring enough to seize on it.

Hawkins has been very good (not now with back), Daniher needs to put on weight (not a problem with Boyd), Hogan was selected at CHB in AA squad with Boyd at FF and the experts all rate Boyd a fair way ahead of Patton.

Caddy has surprised me at Geelong, he has been better than I expected but I agree if we had pick one to put up it would need to be for a Griffen and Dangerfield and it's not going to happen. Rockliff or Rich are not worth pick one.

[Ouch! 2,266]

Hawkins has been very good (not now with back), Daniher needs to put on weight (not a problem with Boyd), Hogan was selected at CHB in AA squad with Boyd at FF and the experts all rate Boyd a fair way ahead of Patton.

Caddy has surprised me at Geelong, he has been better than I expected but I agree if we had pick one to put up it would need to be for a Griffen and Dangerfield and it's not going to happen. Rockliff or Rich are not worth pick one.

Not sure you quite get the context of what I am saying with the first bit Rjay, you are claiming Boyd as being once in a generation. But such claims are made about players every year. Scully was touted as such too... I am not saying these guys are not good players... but once in a generation.... thats a big call.

Edit: (unless you are quoting someone else saying that.... then sorry )

Edited September 4, 2013 by Oucher

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I wouldn't be considering trading Mcdonald, has the potential to be a 10 year CHB for us, Paul Roos will sort out his kicking

Paul Roos will sort out his kicking?

What the funk is wrong with this place..

Will the guy walk on water too?

[rjay 25,093]

Not sure you quite get the context of what I am saying with the first bit Rjay, you are claiming Boyd as being once in a generation. But such claims are made about players every year. Scully was touted as such too... I am not saying these guys are not good players... but once in a generation.... thats a big call.

Edit: (unless you are quoting someone else saying that.... then sorry )

I do get what you are saying and yes big claims are made each year. Our good friend Kevin Sheehan is prone to overstatement when he likens different players to Ablett, Selwood etc. it's probably more what the supporters think they are getting, "we've got the next Judd, Selwood, Ablett etc." no, this is the style of game they play, just not anywhere near as good would be the over riding statement if Kev was being serious.

I'm not sure whether Boyd is what he is cracked up to be (I hope our beefed up and improved recruiters know the answer and are not carried away with the hype) and I guess my point or points are this, if he is that good we take him no matter what our need for mids is you don't pass up this type of player. The other point is I don't think our forward line is the best in the comp and will not be with the current group so if we can make it better we should.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

I think if we get a PP, we should offer GWS pick 3 for Adams and Pick 10.

That does seem reasonable.

Then maybe we could trade pick 1 for an established midfielder, if possible.

That would net us Adams, an A grade mid, pick 10.

A gun will slip to 10, no doubt about it.

[rjay 25,093]

I think if we get a PP, we should offer GWS pick 3 for Adams and Pick 10.

That does seem reasonable.

Then maybe we could trade pick 1 for an established midfielder, if possible.

That would net us Adams, an A grade mid, pick 10.

A gun will slip to 10, no doubt about it.

I don't think we will get a gun mid for pick one, there will be offers but no one at the quality for that pick but 3 for Adams and 10 is worth considering. Someone like Crouch maybe still available at 10.

[Ouch! 2,266]

I don't think we will get a gun mid for pick one, there will be offers but no one at the quality for that pick but 3 for Adams and 10 is worth considering. Someone like Crouch maybe still available at 10.

I agree that pick 1 won't be enough for a proven gun midfielder.

I actually do however believe that if we want to get such a player, then we can only look at such an opportunity this year. Roos coming on, excitement, and possibly picks 1 and 3, and some tradeable players if we need to sweeten the deal further.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

Please note that I did not say they WOULD take him, but that it's a possibility.

The rest of the comp still rates Jamar for some reason. I don't think they pay as much attention to MFC as we do, and the fact remains GWS tried to get him last year so I still think they MIGHT want him this year. Also, we just re-signed Gawn a few weeks ago.

Also, everyone please try and remember we're talking about pick 19 AND Jamar, not just Jamar.

Yeah we re-signed Gawn a few weeks ago - we also re-signed Jamar for 3 seasons last year. If ones up for grabs the other should be too.

Look don't get me wrong if we can off-load a bad contract and injury prone player coming to the end of his career for some value I'm all for it, I just think its an utter waste of time to go down that path and will be met with scorn by the clubs you're trying to work with. And if you think opposition analysts, list managers, recruiters etc pay less attention to our players than some supporters on a fan forum you're deluded.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Good enough tall forwards: Clark, Dawes, Fitzpatrick, Hogan, Gawn

Good enough mids: Jones, Viney

MFC haven't had a positive differential in inside 50s since 2006.

Maybe it's just me, but I think we need midfielders more than tall forwards, no matter how good they POSSIBLY will be.

Cant not pick Boyd if we get pick one. If it means the midfield isnt fixed as soon as is possible then thats just what its got to be. As much as the team needs to be competitive asap this period is all about setting the club up for sustained long term success. Boyd and Hogan would set up melbournes forward line for the next 10-14 years. the club cant let that opportunity go.

Gun mids are of course VERY handy but they can be found in the top 20 picks. it is very hard to get a gun KPF in the draft .....unless you got a high pick. the club needs to load up while it can and try and get some handy mids in the following picks plus pick up some in trade and FA.

With boyd and hogan on the list and roos coaching it wont be too hard in the next couple of years to attract some good mids in FA and trade week.

Gotta take Boyd

[stuie 7,374]

We could have Carey, Dunstall, Capper, and Plugger in the forward line but it wouldn't matter if we can't get the ball near 50.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

yes that is true and will be probaly next year as well. but it is much easier to accumulate some decent mids and slowly strenghten the middle of the ground than to set up a dominating forward line.

i cant see any club giving us a mid thats worth a pick one and a mid at pick one in the draft wont chnge the midfield fortunes next season anyway. so lets take best available and accumulate some mids with our later picks.

[stuie 7,374]

yes that is true and will be probaly next year as well. but it is much easier to accumulate some decent mids and slowly strenghten the middle of the ground than to set up a dominating forward line.

i cant see any club giving us a mid thats worth a pick one and a mid at pick one in the draft wont chnge the midfield fortunes next season anyway. so lets take best available and accumulate some mids with our later picks.

Is it? Is it??

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

yes i believe it is. im not saying GUN midfielders but decent mids are more plentiful than the type of KPF that Boyd is supposed to be.

[stuie 7,374]

yes i believe it is. im not saying GUN midfielders but decent mids are more plentiful than the type of KPF that Boyd is supposed to be.

Yet we have 4 KPFs to fit into our team next year, and 2 good mids...

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

yes we have clark whos 27 next year, dawes who is solid but not a star, hogan who looks the goods and fitzy . taking boyd is about setting up our forward line long term . long after clark and dawes have moved on.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

always take best available. cherry picking the draft got us cook and gysberts.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

i dont know whether boyd is as good as they say as i havent watched any footage of him My point is that IF he is as good as the media beat up says he is then i think the club should take him.

its all a moot point till we find out if a PP is coming our way though hey